114 replies to this topic

[Corvus Antaka]

Defend your base...then you'll get your fight.

[Joseph Mallan]

FerrolupisXIII, on 05 December 2012 - 05:47 PM, said:

thanks Naz, im glad someone understands the point of what i said. my teammates and i are looking for a fight, not the mech train. guess its waiting for faction warfare it is.

im glad there is capping but like you said, right now there isn't a good reason to fight if you think you can just make a run for their base with all your mechs. there is a reason we have the matchmaker the way it is in pubs, why wasn't it implemented for 8 mans? or force us into 2/2/2/2 setups if it makes it easier to match up.

yes but the other team is looking to accomplish the mission. They want to capture your base. I understand your frustration but you need to learn that every plan is a good plan until you encounter your enemy.

You plan on a fight to the death. Your enemy wants a stealthy victory with minimal losses.

[FerrolupisXIII]

yet again, thanks to all the people that offer no constructive comment to the discussion. good for you, i think someone hit the nail on the head earlier about the maturity level.

i am open to changing tactics. but as several people have pointed out the "best" tactic right now is bring all/ mostly atlas's with ECM cover and sit. that isn't much of a tactic at all.

i'd rather lose and have a fun match than win sitting around. personal preference, of course. if it stays like this, the matches will turn into 8 atlas V 8 atlas, and no one willing to move. yep, fun.

Edited by FerrolupisXIII, 06 December 2012 - 09:36 AM.

[Max Power]

Wyld Goose, on 06 December 2012 - 09:24 AM, said:

Solution? 1 CAP maps. Put that Cap, that both teams can capture if one teams has 1 or more mechs more then the other team in the Cap, right smack in the middle of the map and see what happens.

or.......

1 Cap map where only one team has a Cap and must defend, while the other team has to capture.

or

of coarse this will happen, Team death match (no Caps) with a shorter timer (so you don't have to try and chase that last jenner for 12 minutes, that is running all over the map.

Someone with a sensical suggestion!? GET OUT!!!! (kidding)

Although, I wouldn't mind the last scenario (chase last remaining mech which is a jenner for remainder of round) IF Yakity Sax was being played.

In fact, that is the next must have feature for the game. Whenever a light is the last mech on a team, the game must play Yakity Sax as the other team chases the light.

[RumRunner151]

FerrolupisXIII, on 05 December 2012 - 06:27 PM, said:

if you read what i wrote we did defend it, the enemy team just didn't care to stop, and kept right on walking. we spotted them and engaged them, in plenty of time to start a fight. not much else to be said.

Maybe you should have had a scout find them earlier and you could have engaged them long before they got to you base instead of being out maneuvered.

FerrolupisXIII, on 06 December 2012 - 05:37 AM, said:

oh everyone that says i don't know how to play... i know just fine, i don't have a problem with loosing or being outplayed. i just felt like expressing my distaste of the current tactics. its not very interesting. i think some people missed the point.

1) I'd rather actually fight someone, not catch them sneaking around. and we did catch them, as i stated.

2) 8man needs some sort of balancing rules. we're back to the old beta where people all just bring big stuff and laugh, or speedy stuff and laugh.

if all 8 mans is going to be is see who caps the enemy base first, i have no intentions of playing many of them. we've had plenty of GOOD matches too, where we got a good fight. or caught teams rushing our base and took them apart. nice to see the usual turn out of lol you suck comments though. thanks guys.

Its not LOL you suck. Seriously, you need better tactics and you can achieve your goal of denying the enemy 1 of the 2 current winning conditions if that is your choice.

QuantumButler, on 06 December 2012 - 05:44 AM, said:

You people are what's wrong with this game.

No U!

QuantumButler, on 06 December 2012 - 06:35 AM, said:

I'm sorry, standing on the red square is NOT a game, it is a way out of the game without playing the game.

Why the hell would you play MechWARRIOR online if you don't want to fight mechs?

Why the hell would you ignore 1 of the 2 winning conditions?

QuantumButler, on 06 December 2012 - 07:02 AM, said:

Hey if you don't like actually playing the game then just say so.

90% of the time we're able to respond to cowardly capping attempts in time, but it's just really annoying and sucks the fun out of the damn game.

Because you get to dictate whats fun for others? Not!

Orkymedes, on 06 December 2012 - 07:19 AM, said:

Yah we fought you guys yesterday. Sorry but i dont see anything here that resemble any kind of tactics. You just stay in your base and wait.
Yah its effective and you always win. But its not fun.

Obviously it is for them or they wouldn't do it. Why do you think you get to determine how people can have fun?

Glory, on 06 December 2012 - 09:12 AM, said:

Accusing people of cheese, whining about "unfair" and "balance" rather than doing what it takes to win is the explanation for losing.
Adapt, improve, succeed.
As for ECM, if people would wipe the QQ out of their eyes for a few minutes they'd realize they can physically see 'Mechs and shoot at them with direct fire weaponry...

So right on. Added my own emphasis. You can also counter ECM with ECM and TAG. Also ECM doesnt affect heat vision.

If you want to fight and have fighting be the only way to win, that's cool. Glad you enjoy it. But, please employ tactics that deny the opponent the ability to cap and we all have fun.

[Lupus Aurelius]

OriginalTibs, on 06 December 2012 - 09:24 AM, said:

Isn't the game supposed to be ours to play? Aside from the fact that we know phase III will factor drop weight, it is the proper duty for a team to learn to respond to any and all scenarios and possible opposing orders of battle using any conceivable tactic.

If we want to become the best warriors we must accept that to get there we will often get a bloody nose. Your bloody nose lesson was that you have to either defend your cap or take your opponent's sooner. Whatever that takes. Deal.

You miss the point. And those screaming "adapt". It's not about what to do to win, anyone can adapt those same tactics. Then what? Everyone sits at their base hunkered down until the other gets bored and finally moves? Or no one moves and the match ends in a "Tied".

What we SHOULD BE CONCERNED ABOUT is game balance, regardless if it means losing a "win" button, regardless as to it being something personally "good" or "bad" to an individual or a group. What we need to be concerned about is having this game we enjoy be a long term success, with enough variety to keep us all interested in the game play. When a game makes items basically useless, and predisposes a very limited range of fits and tactics, is that good, dynamic, and interesting gameplay? Or does it become the same repetitive crap over and over again, have to have 6-7 Atlas D-DCs short range slugfest fit everytime to just have the chance to win?

It's boring, and even if your team gets so good at it they win every time, how long do you think those people are going to play? Or will they look for something more interesting, because they got so good at those 1 or 2 tactics and their counters that they win all the time?

Game balance means nothing completely rules, that how you play has as much, if not more,impact on the outcome, than what you play with. Right now, what you play with has significantly more impact.

Edited by Lupus Aurelius, 06 December 2012 - 09:59 AM.

[River Walker]

You know the best way to deal with this is remove the Caps and make it last Mech standing. I have all ways hated the Cap in this game It just plan sucks.
You want tactic then all you need to do is remove the fast Cash and Fast play and double the pay out for last Mech standing and chose of selvage.

Ps last mech that is still standing that team gets the Cash and the selvage,losing side get normal cash out.

Edited by River Walker, 06 December 2012 - 10:03 AM.

[Agent of Change]

Lupus Aurelius, on 06 December 2012 - 09:56 AM, said:

What we SHOULD BE CONCERNED ABOUT is game balance, regardless if it means losing a "win" button, regardless as to it being something personally "good" or "bad" to an individual or a group.

Especially if it means losing a "win" button. If anything is a "win" button it is by definition bad for the game long term.

If all you care about is the "win" and stats I can give you a spreadsheet that ticks up slowly so you can watch you numbers get bigger or "better".

River Walker, on 06 December 2012 - 09:57 AM, said:

You know the best way to deal with this is remove the Caps and make it last Mech standing. I have all ways hated the Cap in this game It just plan sucks.
You want tactic then all you need to do is remove the fast Cash and Fast play and double the pay out for last Mech standing and chose of selvage.

And then there is even less reason to take anything but an atlas.

[Kraven Kor]

Yeah, winners gonna win

We have had several teams try to fight us, then think better of it and cap instead.

*shrug*

(Note: We have had other teams stomp our face in, repeatedly, so this is not bragging.)

Although, Silverhawk Irregulars won 5 of 7 for our first 8-man drops last night. I was rather proud of that.

[MangoBogadog]

I'm more happy when I see 4 (or more) atlases on the enemy team, means when we win with our balanced team it feels all the better.

Having said that of the 15 or so games I played yesterday I only saw 1 team with 4 atlases all the rest had less than that.

If the enemy team has all atlases and wants to base rush and you have a balanced team,,, ie faster mechs at your disposal you should be able to get their base first and turn them around, your scouts will have no trouble seeing a mass of atlases slowly crossing the map.

The most exciting part of this game for me is finding a counter to something that everyone else thinks is OP. In actual fact I have enjoyed the OP streaks/gauss/LRM's/jenner/atlas etc. because they all gave me a challenge to find a counter to, and ALL could be countered, once I found a counter i'd look for another way to deal with the challenge.

The current game mode can actually guarantee your team a fight, if the enemy base rushes then defend your base, if the enemy sits tight then attack them.

[Dukov Nook]

QuantumButler, on 06 December 2012 - 07:02 AM, said:

Hey if you don't like actually playing the game then just say so.

90% of the time we're able to respond to cowardly capping attempts in time, but it's just really annoying and sucks the fun out of the damn game.



There's a ******* reason I find sports boring and give no ***** about them you know.

Hey, guess what. You knew what the game was when you signed up. The analysis is right and you know it.

[Joseph Mallan]

FerrolupisXIII, on 06 December 2012 - 09:35 AM, said:

yet again, thanks to all the people that offer no constructive comment to the discussion. good for you, i think someone hit the nail on the head earlier about the maturity level.

i am open to changing tactics. but as several people have pointed out the "best" tactic right now is bring all/ mostly atlas's with ECM cover and sit. that isn't much of a tactic at all.

i'd rather lose and have a fun match than win sitting around. personal preference, of course. if it stays like this, the matches will turn into 8 atlas V 8 atlas, and no one willing to move. yep, fun.

Still missing the point i made, Fun for you is not fun for all. A leisurely stroll from my base to your base for a quick cap nets me a win, bonus for cap of your base and lets me wash and repeat. It may not be fun "for you" But what about "MY" fun? YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT ME ANYMORE FERRO!!!!

[Lupus Aurelius]

Joseph Mallan, on 06 December 2012 - 11:21 AM, said:

Still missing the point i made, Fun for you is not fun for all. A leisurely stroll from my base to your base for a quick cap nets me a win, bonus for cap of your base and lets me wash and repeat. It may not be fun "for you" But what about "MY" fun? YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT ME ANYMORE FERRO!!!!

It's about what makes for good game balance, that generates as many diverse tactical situations as possible. Short term thinking says "adapt the same tactics". Long term thinking, with focus on game longevity and overall enjoyment, focuses on giving players the "chance" of winning using a variety of methods, and on providing non-repetitive and dynamic gameplay.

Being "forced" to adopt a very limited set of fits/composition and tactics to achieve a victory because of "unbalanced" elements does not provide interesting gameplay.

Edited by Lupus Aurelius, 06 December 2012 - 11:37 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Right a good game balance will allow both sides to win the way they want. If I can never sneak to your base and steal it from under your nose, I will lose interest because the game is one dimensional. If you stay on your base and defend it you take away the other players ability to cap, AND you get the fight you so desperately want. So you ruin his day and get what you want!

It is also repetitive to walk out on the map and duke it out till one side wins. I like having the option to be the sneaky Ninja or the Blood thirsty murderous basstard i was trained to be long ago.

[Agent of Change]

Lupus Aurelius, on 06 December 2012 - 11:34 AM, said:

It's about what makes for good game balance, that generates as many diverse tactical situations as possible. Short term thinking says "adapt the same tactics". Long term thinking, with focus on game longevity and overall enjoyment, focuses on giving players the "chance" of winning using a variety of methods, and on providing non-repetitive and dynamic gameplay.

Being "forced" to adopt a very limited set of fits/composition and tactics to achieve a victory because of "unbalanced" elements does not provide interesting gameplay.

I will encourage fast capping in 8v8 until such time as the mostly atlas crowd gets tired of either being capped, or sitting in one place for 15 minutes, and starts to run more varied builds. The sad part is in the absence of a match maker the only MM there is is the meta, and to change the meta you need to force it by doing something so effective or annoying that people adapt to prevent it.

[Stoicblitzer]

We need new game modes. I hate the current one. TDM for the win!

[Sevaradan]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 06 December 2012 - 09:26 AM, said:

Defend your base...then you'll get your fight.

This, we normally run a lot of short ranged mechs and use the base cap mechanic to dictate the engagement range, ie forcing you to fight us from the box.

Agent of Change, on 06 December 2012 - 11:44 AM, said:

I will encourage fast capping in 8v8 until such time as the mostly atlas crowd gets tired of either being capped, or sitting in one place for 15 minutes, and starts to run more varied builds. The sad part is in the absence of a match maker the only MM there is is the meta, and to change the meta you need to force it by doing something so effective or annoying that people adapt to prevent it.

I've had good success fast capping with a steiner scout lance (but we run a lot of "fast" atlases, my personal DDC is a bit over 60kph)

Edited by Sevaradan, 06 December 2012 - 11:51 AM.

[Fugu]

The game mode itself is awful and has always been awful. Don't hate the player, hate the game. When the game allows one to play utterly lame, people will do just that.

[Glory in the Highest]

Lupus Aurelius, on 06 December 2012 - 09:21 AM, said:

Wrong. It's a game, something we in theory are suppose to have fun in.

I have a blast.

Just because "casual" gamers can't understand the mindset of effort and improvement doesn't mean that competitive gamers aren't having fun. It doesn't mean we treat it like a second job, or that we don't have lives. (In fact, competitive gamers are, on average, quite successful people IRL.)

There is value in seeing where one can improve and adapt one's game. If they "fix" this to the QQers' satisfaction, then tomorrow someone will dredge up a brand new barrel of cry.

Why am I bothering ...

Edited by Glory, 06 December 2012 - 12:03 PM.

[Dukov Nook]

Fugu, on 06 December 2012 - 11:50 AM, said:

The game mode itself is awful and has always been awful. Don't hate the player, hate the game. When the game allows one to play utterly lame, people will do just that.

How is this game mode any different than Football, or Soccer, or Hockey?