164 replies to this topic

[LionZoo]

In evaluating whether a piece of equipment is OP, I like to compare it to items of similar weight and critical space.

AMS + 1 ton of ammo is 1.5 tons and 2 criticals (1 of which explodes).

ECM is 1.5 tons and 2 criticals.

AMS shoots down some missiles, but others will still get through. ECM prevents LRMs and SSRMs from ever being a threat. The only area where AMS is superior to ECM is when regular SRMs are fired, but SRMs are generally fired at such short ranges that the AMS really doesn't have time to react. In addition, ECM manages to reduce the R range to 200m (which is huge when trying to determine which part of the Mech to hit) and can cut enemies off from communications with their team (which is a big deal if you aren't on comms). To put ECM at even more of an advantage, ECM not only protects you, it confers the same protection to all your teammates that are within 180m of you. AMS' ability to protect your teammates is much more limited. Finally, AMS is ammo based and can run out in battle, which ECM is much harder to disable without killing a Mech. I think it's safe to say if given the choice, a player would take ECM over AMS 99.999% of the time. Considering they're comparable tonnage and critical, that shows that ECM is OP.

[HumanDuracell]

FrostPaw, on 07 December 2012 - 04:48 PM, said:

I would also set Narc up as the LRM counter to ECM, get hit with a Narc while equipped with ECM means you're lit up like a christmas tree to all lrm using enemies and no longer have immunity for the duraction of the Narc beacon.

Except that any ECM (IRL or in-game) is supposed to work by effectively laying down a blanket of broad-spectrum electronic interference, and thereby interrupt any enemy electronic transmissions within or passing through that sphere of influence, hence the name;ECM (Electronic Counter-Measure.) I would kindly like to emphasize on those last two bracketed words; Counter-Measure, as it seems to me that many people don't seem to fully understand what its supposed to do.

NARC works by using a homing beacon that, once impacted on a target, transmits an electronic signal that friendly LRM carrying 'mechs can use to aid their LRM salvos. Note the term 'electronic transmission'...
The very thing that ECM is designed to counter.

So how could NARC possibly be used to counter ECM when their purposes are completely different?

Personally I'm quite happy with ECM the way it is as it means I can sit on top of that hill over there undetected in my Raven while I relay your position to my teammates all the while you are complaining that ECM is broken!

Edited by Edanomel, 07 December 2012 - 05:22 PM.

[TruePoindexter]

Streeter, on 07 December 2012 - 05:13 PM, said:

I realise that, but unlike ECM, all mechs already have this. Balance wise no one is put out. am I missing something here?

People will never complain about a free perk.

[Smeghead87]

Streeter, on 07 December 2012 - 05:04 PM, said:

I might be being very short sighted here but EVERY mech has this so there is no advantage/balancing issue?

Well as far as I'm concerned, it's part of the reason the ECM seems as powerful as it is, since it disrupts everyone's onboard (free) C3 computers making targeting and data sharing a nightmare.

Imagine if nobody had it, everyone would be running round the map looking for each other and voice communication would be vital for relaying information about target locations since you couldn't see your allies targets. Might not seem bad now but wait till they add some larger maps.

Suddenly theres a counter to this free piece of very valuable equipment, and everyone is up in arms about it.

My point was, ton for ton and critical for critical, the complimentary C3 computer is the most overpowered piece of equipment in your battlemech.

[TruePoindexter]

LionZoo, on 07 December 2012 - 05:14 PM, said:

AMS shoots down some missiles, but others will still get through. ECM prevents LRMs and SSRMs from ever being a threat.

Hold up there - it prevents them from ever being a threat? That's WAAAAYYYYY off base. First off missile locks are only blocked if you're within the 180m coverage area. If a target is covered by ECM and exposed to you (either via the 20m gap in coverage or with TAG) and you are not in the 180m coverage area missile locks work just fine. Further ECM can be entirely negated by having a friendly run their ECM in counter mode.

Does it reduce the effectiveness or LRMS/SSRMS? Absolutely. Does it keep them from never being a threat? Nonsense.

Also every single other direct fire weapon works just fine ECM or no. Shoot the ECM mech.

Edited by TruePoindexter, 07 December 2012 - 05:22 PM.

[Odins Fist]

Tilon, on 07 December 2012 - 03:36 PM, said:

Posting that you can do damage without ECM doesn't prove anything at all.

.
Wait a minute "KID", you said "ANY" Mech without ECM is "SECOND CLASS" at best..??
I'm here to tell you that you are "WRONG", look at the score again, and tell me how you think "8" kills and 1331 damage is in anyway second class..??
.

.
I "ROUTINELY" get more 4 or more kills a match "WITHOUT" ECM, or LRMs, or "ANY" module equiped...
So tell me again how "ECM" is "OP"..??

[ollo]

xDark, on 07 December 2012 - 03:24 PM, said:

I do just as well in ECM mechs as I do in non-ECM mechs. ECM is nice to have, but it is NOT essential in any way - you just have to change the way you play.

Tell that to the A1 pilots not sporting only SRMs.

[TruePoindexter]

Odins Fist, on 07 December 2012 - 05:21 PM, said:

.
Wait a minute "KID", you said "ANY" Mech without ECM is "SECOND CLASS" at best..??
I'm here to tell you that you are "WRONG", look at the score again, and tell me how you think "8" kills and 1331 damage is in anyway second class..??
.

.
I "ROUTINELY" get more 4 or more kills a match "WITHOUT" ECM, or LRMs, or "ANY" module equiped...
So tell me again how "ECM" is "OP"..??

Your ability to aim is OP. I'm going to nerf your fingers with this hammer.

Edited by TruePoindexter, 08 December 2012 - 01:45 AM.

[ollo]

Odins Fist, on 07 December 2012 - 03:23 PM, said:

ScreenShot taken last night December 6th, 2012

...in a match against complete morons...

[TruePoindexter]

ollo, on 07 December 2012 - 05:23 PM, said:

Tell that to the A1 pilots not sporting only SRMs.

Sounds like a personal problem.

Also pair an SSRM A1 with a Raven and watch them devour enemy scouts.

[Streeter]

Smeghead87, on 07 December 2012 - 05:16 PM, said:

Well as far as I'm concerned, it's part of the reason the ECM seems as powerful as it is, since it disrupts everyone's onboard (free) C3 computers making targeting and data sharing a nightmare.

Imagine if nobody had it, everyone would be running round the map looking for each other and voice communication would be vital for relaying information about target locations since you couldn't see your allies targets. Might not seem bad now but wait till they add some larger maps.

Suddenly theres a counter to this free piece of very valuable equipment, and everyone is up in arms about it.

My point was, ton for ton and critical for critical, the complimentary C3 computer is the most overpowered piece of equipment in your battlemech.

I guess that comes down to how the devs want the game to play. perhaps you are right and they are now punishing (rebalancing) that free C3 on every mech... regardless of how you view it the weight/space of the ECM is totally worth fitting to the mech. So much so that Ravens Vs Jenner, Ravens are by far the highest priority target. From all the QQing on jenners I could very rarely crack 1000 damage a round, and now with the Raven thats happening every 2nd or 3rd round.

If that sounds balanced then I guess all is ok.

[Alpharion]

I've played mechs with and without ecms, I need to say that as a piece of equipment it functions very similiarly to its real world counterpart. Although I do understand the fustrations that some people have and how much of a handicap not having an ecm suite might feel to be, it is not altogether an over powered piece of equipment.

I don't believe it to be over powered, for a few reasons. The first is that ECM equipment can ever only be loaded on a specific few mechs, besides the atlas, the other ecm compatible mechs are the commando, raven and cicada. All of them small and quick mechs with limited weapon payloads and armor. Choosing to equip an ECM in mwo in its current iteration requires for players to balance between an ecm mech, and something else that might not have it, but can either equip more weapons, armor, or has increased mobility in the form of jump jets, which some scout players might feel is even more critical then an ecm module.

Whatever the case however, it remains that ECM is not something that functions too overpoweringly. The maximum range of coverage is 180m, a limited bubble when a group is maneuvering through a map, or maneuvering in combat. Further more, because ecm equipped mechs are displayed on screen, it is not impossible for the enemy team to identify and prioritize ecm carriers when fights start. Atlases are particularly vulnerable to this as their sluggish speed limits their mobility, not to mention that heavy as that mechs armor is, its not about to stand up to the entire firepower of an enemy lance.

Being singled out for being an ECM carrier isn't a rare event either. More often then not i find myself running for dear life whenever i pilot my raven in combat. Although i am, admittedly, not a terribly good player. By and large i've found that ecm carriers either get killed early in a fight, or are too busy trying to keep their mechs running to do much damage to the enemy team.

So to sum up, although ecm confers some massive benefits to the team who has a mech in their roster who boasts one. There are sacrifices that need to be made inorder to mount an ecm. Those players become ordnance magnets, or in the case of the raven, commando or cicada. Need to sacrifice a large amount of firepower by picking a lighter mech with limited hardpoints to mount one.

[Hesketh Vernon Hesketh Prichard]

Odins Fist, on 07 December 2012 - 05:21 PM, said:

.
Wait a minute "KID", you said "ANY" Mech without ECM is "SECOND CLASS" at best..??
I'm here to tell you that you are "WRONG", look at the score again, and tell me how you think "8" kills and 1331 damage is in anyway second class..??
.

.
I "ROUTINELY" get more 4 or more kills a match "WITHOUT" ECM, or LRMs, or "ANY" module equiped...
So tell me again how "ECM" is "OP"..??

Ouch...... Nice score RS i Gather

Edited by Hesketh Vernon Hesketh Prichard, 07 December 2012 - 05:29 PM.

[ollo]

Odins Fist, on 07 December 2012 - 05:21 PM, said:

Wait a minute "KID", you said "ANY" Mech without ECM is "SECOND CLASS" at best..??
I'm here to tell you that you are "WRONG", look at the score again, and tell me how you think "8" kills and 1331 damage is in anyway second class..??

How many ECM were on your team and how many on the other? Not that it wouldn't change that your screenshot has nothing to do with the topic, as one sample of one particular person out of millions of samples is no relevant data. PGI has the data, and if they are in their right mind, they'll act accordingly and nerf ECM in one way or the other. Or we are all wrong and they'll actually buff it if the numbers show it isn't powerful enough, which i doubt.

[Odins Fist]

ollo, on 07 December 2012 - 05:24 PM, said:

...in a match against complete morons...

.
There were only 3 people left on the Field, I guess it wasn't a straight up brawl that match, and they all stood still huh..?? Were you there..??? NOPE
.
Like I said I don't use "ECM", because I don't need to use it... Sorry about your bad luck..
Oh wait, ... No i'm not...

Edited by Odins Fist, 07 December 2012 - 05:32 PM.

[Odins Fist]

ollo, on 07 December 2012 - 05:29 PM, said:

How many ECM were on your team and how many on the other? Not that it wouldn't change that your screenshot has nothing to do with the topic, as one sample of one particular person out of millions of samples is no relevant data. PGI has the data, and if they are in their right mind, they'll act accordingly and nerf ECM in one way or the other. Or we are all wrong and they'll actually buff it if the numbers show it isn't powerful enough, which i doubt.

.
I was "NOT" under cover of ECM at least after kill 2, the little guy with "ECM" took a Alpha from a Gauss-A-Phract, and then I went on a murdering spree on the edge of the water, and in the water, for all to see..
.
You see I "AIM" for vulnerable spots, not just center mass, it works... Anything else..??

[TruePoindexter]

ollo, on 07 December 2012 - 05:29 PM, said:

How many ECM were on your team and how many on the other? Not that it wouldn't change that your screenshot has nothing to do with the topic, as one sample of one particular person out of millions of samples is no relevant data. PGI has the data, and if they are in their right mind, they'll act accordingly and nerf ECM in one way or the other. Or we are all wrong and they'll actually buff it if the numbers show it isn't powerful enough, which i doubt.

Why does the number of ECM matter? Does ECM make bullets and lasers deal more or less damage? Nope - it only messes with targeting information and missile locks.

[ollo]

TruePoindexter, on 07 December 2012 - 05:24 PM, said:

Sounds like a personal problem.

Also pair an SSRM A1 with a Raven and watch them devour enemy scouts.

It's a problem of the chassis, as there are no other hardpoints than missiles. I run a A1 with LRM and SSRM, and there have been games where i was zombied from the start so to say. If you are lucky and the enemy has no ECM or doesn't know how to play and runs off in a moronic direction abandoning his team, then you can actually play the game. If not, well then you are kind of as useful as a rock with legs. That paired with the total randomness of # of ECM per team leads to extremely frustrating matches.

[Streeter]

Odins Fist, on 07 December 2012 - 05:31 PM, said:

.
There were only 3 people left on the Field, I guess it wasn't a straight up brawl that match, and they all stood still huh..?? Were you there..??? NOPE
.
Like I said I don't use "ECM", because I don't need to use it... Sorry about your bad luck..
Oh wait, ... No i'm not...

Ive got close a few times to that damage. If I out do your 1331 damage in my 35 ton raven, will you concede that perhaps the ECM might need a little looking at?

[ollo]

TruePoindexter, on 07 December 2012 - 05:36 PM, said:

Why does the number of ECM matter? Does ECM make bullets and lasers deal more or less damage? Nope - it only messes with targeting information and missile locks.

You have no chance to really use LRM or SSRM when the enemy outblocks you, so the counter ECM with ECM argument is mute in the current state of matchmaking. And it does make LRM and SSRM them deal less damage, exactly 0 if played right.