164 replies to this topic

[Steel Will]

I just know I felt like shooting myself while grinding out the two lesser Raven variants this week to get master level for the 3L. They were well outclassed before ECM and now they're just trash in comparison to the 3L.

[Thecure]

I'm not big on lore so I won't pretend to know if ECM should be a null signature system as well. But I got to say I like it as it is. Though it shouldn't be inplemented just yet. If the netcode and hitdetection was perfect AND proper collisions were in, the ECM would feel less OP. It wouldn't be so easy for an enemy scout to walk into your team, distrupting and spotting. And when TAG's range gets buffed, Jenners will be back into play.

[Cerlin]

Uh I disagree. For the lights, if your team doesnt have ECM and you brought a Jenner that is suboptimal. But overall I still find my non ECM mechs are KEY. After about 2 units of ECM its just diminishing returns, I roll my heavies and mediums often. I do not find them "Secondary class citizens" and the more I play the better I get at ignoring/counter ECM.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Tolkien, on 09 December 2012 - 04:20 AM, said:

Bump for Truth.

I like the idea of ECM knocking out artemis, narc, etc, but it should not be a hard counter to other ECMs nor should it be a hard counter to indirect fire.

The AOE Null Signature system has to go.

It should have just delayed lock on timers and nullified the Artemis. I'm not also against radar reduction but reduction by 75% is very obviously too high, especially when the BAP does nothing to help. If the BAP restored a few hundred meters back... (200->500)then this reduction wouldn't have been a problem since LRM boats would have had an effective counter that allowed them to retain some of their range despite losing max range and their Artemis. But the bottom line is that LRMs are useless if you can fire them from at least 500 meters, which is why I suggest BAP putting you at 500. Why 500? Because if you're at 450 you may as well just shoot Large Lasers or an AC 10. Both of these do full to 450 meters. Also, if you're already at 450, it's not much harder to close distance for any other weapon.(AC 20 270m. SRMs 270m. Medium Laser 270m. LBX around 300. Even the Large Pulse is 300m.) Whole point of LRMs is long range, hence the words, "LONG RANGE" in the name. Without that range there's little point, even if you could lockon and fire. You're not going to brawl with LRMs at 250 meters even they worked through the ECM at that distance because they wouldn't compare with other <270m guns and you could very easily end up deadzoned. This is why LRMs need at least 500m and that should have been obtainable with BAP through the ECM effects.

[HTTP Error 400]

Step 1.

Forget the ECM mechanics for a minute and there is a much bigger, but simpler, issue at stake. ECM is effectively a 'must have' to win. Name one other 'module' in the game that if noone in your team has, means you lose (assuming the team with ECM aren't complete idiots that shoot each other more than the other team, etc, etc).

Think about that for a minute and you'll see why it is a problem.

Step 2.

Now all the 'learn to play, noob' players have a better understanding of why it's a problem, everyone can help work out how to balance it.

[Smeghead87]

I've played lots of games where my team had no ECM and the enemy team had it, and guess what, I don't always lose.

Does that mean you MUST have SSRM and LRM on your team to win? Cause that's primarily what ECM stops. If thats the case then you are effectively saying that SSRM and LRM aren't balanced either.

[Corvus Antaka]

+1

No system should completely disable any other system, only disrupt it briefly or slow it down, ie double lockon times.

pre-patch a good smart brawler team could wreck havoc on an LRM team. I know because we did this many times, you had to use cover, be smart, jump the LRM boats. it was good gameplay.

Now, you just need a few ECMS, and you can rush them headlong down an empty field.

better tactics? I think not.

[Tennex]

agreed. it does way too much for practically no tonnage.

[KhanCipher]

Smeghead87, on 09 December 2012 - 10:53 AM, said:

Does that mean you MUST have SSRM and LRM on your team to win? Cause that's primarily what ECM stops. If thats the case then you are effectively saying that SSRM and LRM aren't balanced either.

Before ECM:
LRMs smash the unaware, and required a somewhat decent light pilot. SSRMs was the most reliable way to kill lights through all that speed they have. (don't tell me that i have to lead my shots, i shouldn't have to lead my shots with lasers in a game that's made in 2012)

and anyways what made SSRMs so powerful was that they were bugfixbuffed, which the gauss has been the next victim of this odd development staff (bugfixnerfed...)

After ECM:
LRMs now require a great light pilot with TAG, and ECM. Now you need ECM to even use the SSRMs in the first place.

by now someone would've probably said that ECM is starting to cause lagspikes for people (it's been happening in extreme cases in 8-mans for me), so right now ECM is breaking our pings and it should be removed untill someone in the development staff can come up with a way to make the server load that ECM causes go down.

Edited by KhanCipher, 09 December 2012 - 11:36 AM.

[Odins Fist]

Streeter, on 07 December 2012 - 11:20 PM, said:

*facepalm*

Im using the ECM and getting the huge damage and kills with the junk Raven. Im not the one getting killed by them, Im using them and decimating all, so I guess I have "adapted"

I give up trying to make my point. I think I could get 10 times the damage you did in your atlas and you still wouldnt understand if something was OP or not

.
You're right "ECM" is OP..... LOL, Even though i'm not having problems dealing with those running "ECM", I will just agree with you that "ECM" is OP, and should be nerfed.... "NOT"..
.
QUOTE----> "I think I could get 10 times the damage you did in your atlas" ... Uh, I don't think there is that much Armor contained on the entire enemy team... 13,310..??? Sarcasm... LOL, I know what you're saying, but no need for a facepalm man.
.
Whenever someone with "ECM" is near my minimap says "LOW SIGNAL", and I run away screaming to my team "Oh no, the big bad guys with "ECM" are over here"...!!!! Wait, no I don't, it's just a clear indication that someone has ECM near me, then I turn the corner/enter the ice cave/walk around the mesa... Last night a "MECH" stood just back from the middle entrance of the Ice Cave with his ECM running, and I typed in "Watch This Guys", I rounded the corner and there he was, the lonely Raven, he looked up, took one step backward, and ate an ALPHA to the face (Dead)... I really don't think ECM is OP...
The End...

Edited by Odins Fist, 09 December 2012 - 11:40 AM.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 09 December 2012 - 10:58 AM, said:

+1

No system should completely disable any other system, only disrupt it briefly or slow it down, ie double lockon times.

pre-patch a good smart brawler team could wreck havoc on an LRM team. I know because we did this many times, you had to use cover, be smart, jump the LRM boats. it was good gameplay.

Now, you just need a few ECMS, and you can rush them headlong down an empty field.

better tactics? I think not.

So true. I can't believe how people are so stupid that they think this game has actually become better or more tactical from this when the exact opposite is what is in reality right in front of their face. You can just zerg straight to the enemy now. No one's going to have any missiles. If they do, then just huddle under the lock proof ECM bubble while you march straight towards them across an open field without any fear at all. It's a big mindless brawl now. That's it. There is no long range fighting anymore nor any reason to play the game with any kind of caution or consideration for terrain. Just slot Medium Lasers or an AC 20 and bumrush to 300m and go pewpew powpow. It's depressing how much they decided to water down this game with 1 stupidly broken device. We already had half a roaster of weapons no one used. I guess that wasn't enough.

[Beo Vulf]

Odins Fist, on 07 December 2012 - 03:23 PM, said:

.
I beg to differ, I run "NO" ECM, or LRMs.... Not the Atlas D-DC either..
.
.
ScreenShot taken last night December 6th, 2012

Do you run BAP?

[Odins Fist]

Beo Vulf, on 09 December 2012 - 12:34 PM, said:

Do you run BAP?

.
No, I run absolutely no modules at all... No ECM, No BAP, nothing

[SLxJoker]

The fact remains that this is a Beta. The game is in a changing status everyday from devs to players and playtesters who find fault or problems with the game graphics, weapons, armor, devices, equipment and so forth.

The fact will also remain regardless of PUG or not that players will always adjust to the flavor of the month club and the powergame over fluff and lore any day of the week or month. Cause lets be honest who wants to play a game and loose all the time, so why not exploit the bugs and powergame this sucker (Streakcats, LRM Boats, ECM or whatever gets buffed, nerfed, or implimented in the game at the time

What really gets my button is now that I have paid for the Elite Founders package, I have to deal with what happens in the game no more premium time no chance to actually regain my bought time for "Elite Package" on a released final version that has all the bugs and problems worked out? Instead I wait till the next FoTM and instead of having fun playing game after game, I play a game or 2 and say "Well, it was fun facing 4 streakcats all shooting me at the same time and I died with only firing 2 AC/20 shoots at a Cat and not killing it"

or

" Damn another match where every enemy mech has ECM, which I kill maybe one beforing being swarmed by a bunch of f'in cicada's, jenners, commando's and ravens" cause its fun to loose all the time. I do win matches, but it is rare and I mean rare. A PUG group may actually worktogether or try too , which is nice or i do have the opportunity to have a game or 2 with a few friends that do play the game.

Instead we fight and bicker on the website over issues that should of been addressed at the dev's table prior to being released period. I get that there are aspects to the game that ****** each of us off (if you say you don't get mad your lying, there is something that has pissed you off) the unbalanced tonage drops and what not etc etc, there is a list of things here, But I want to make this point............Shouldn't PGI have thought about all of this prior to launching an open beta? For every problem a solution prior to patching (what if ECM doesn't do what we intended? Ok bob have a fix ready to balance incase ECM is blocking mech signatures or ECM makes it impossible for LRM's to actually lock on or what not so we can hotfix it real fast instead of making the community suffer until the next patch)

Do you all see where I am going with this to me it just seems like lazy planning, granted PGI has done an outstanding job on graphics, gameplay, but the over all experience for an open beta has been a horrible one, at least for me it has been horrible and not fun to play the game. I still play as I am a loyal BT fan and love the MW games. Just my 2 cents as I see both sides to the story and I only really see the 1 main problem, IMO.

[Rocket2Uranus]

You must of been a LRM or a SSRM player.
LOL.
ECM is a GIFT!
I finally see lasers/ballistics instead of seeing camping noobs with LRMs/SSRM all the time.
And I accept LRM/SSRM as part of the game.
LOL doesn't mean i gotta respect the noobs who don't aim or have to time their shots.

Odins Fist, on 09 December 2012 - 12:44 PM, said:

.
No, I run absolutely no modules at all... No ECM, No BAP, nothing

u just had good teammates. that gave u the chance to take aim at the enemy. i've had lucky runs where i've had 2 assists and 5 kills.

i think the game is really "conditional". i think ECM isn't as OP as people say it is, long as you have some ECM of your own on your team. Even if your team doesn't have ECM isn't the end of the world.

ECM doesn't "break" the game unless you are one of the pure SSRM/LRM boats that was infesting this game for the past month.

[Odins Fist]

Rocket2Uranus, on 09 December 2012 - 01:48 PM, said:

u just had good teammates. that gave u the chance to take aim at the enemy. i've had lucky runs where i've had 2 assists and 5 kills.

.
LOLZ, actually I was right in the thick of it all map long... Luck?? I have multiple 6 & 7 kill match screenshots, but my point was not to brag, it was to show that "Pilots" don't need ECM to beat an ECM team...
.
Keep thinking it's luck if we meet on the field... LOLZ

[nemesis271989]

After a week of playing I found out that ECM makes lrm total dumb. I understand that fact that Easy mode for Lrm boats isn't a really game, but at this stage no one even cares if there is an Lrm boat on the field. No tactics no one fears them. I know that 750 meters buff for tag is coming but still it exposes them and makes them unable to do anything. I do not raging or protecting anyone. But I think that ECM carrier MUST be punished anyhow
Tonnage
Radar limiting
Inability to fit certain weapons
Inability to lock a target as COMMANDOs do, Ecm and few streaks on board takes any other light mech down to the Stone Age.


I personally run atlas rs with 3x ppc or er ppc on board ( if anyone questioning)

Thanks for NO attention

nemesis271989

[Rhent]

Tolek Joker Smith, on 09 December 2012 - 01:36 PM, said:

The fact remains that this is a Beta. The game is in a changing status everyday from devs to players and playtesters who find fault or problems with the game graphics, weapons, armor, devices, equipment and so forth.

The fact will also remain regardless of PUG or not that players will always adjust to the flavor of the month club and the powergame over fluff and lore any day of the week or month. Cause lets be honest who wants to play a game and loose all the time, so why not exploit the bugs and powergame this sucker (Streakcats, LRM Boats, ECM or whatever gets buffed, nerfed, or implimented in the game at the time

What really gets my button is now that I have paid for the Elite Founders package, I have to deal with what happens in the game no more premium time no chance to actually regain my bought time for "Elite Package" on a released final version that has all the bugs and problems worked out? Instead I wait till the next FoTM and instead of having fun playing game after game, I play a game or 2 and say "Well, it was fun facing 4 streakcats all shooting me at the same time and I died with only firing 2 AC/20 shoots at a Cat and not killing it"

or

" Damn another match where every enemy mech has ECM, which I kill maybe one beforing being swarmed by a bunch of f'in cicada's, jenners, commando's and ravens" cause its fun to loose all the time. I do win matches, but it is rare and I mean rare. A PUG group may actually worktogether or try too , which is nice or i do have the opportunity to have a game or 2 with a few friends that do play the game.

Instead we fight and bicker on the website over issues that should of been addressed at the dev's table prior to being released period. I get that there are aspects to the game that ****** each of us off (if you say you don't get mad your lying, there is something that has pissed you off) the unbalanced tonage drops and what not etc etc, there is a list of things here, But I want to make this point............Shouldn't PGI have thought about all of this prior to launching an open beta? For every problem a solution prior to patching (what if ECM doesn't do what we intended? Ok bob have a fix ready to balance incase ECM is blocking mech signatures or ECM makes it impossible for LRM's to actually lock on or what not so we can hotfix it real fast instead of making the community suffer until the next patch)

Do you all see where I am going with this to me it just seems like lazy planning, granted PGI has done an outstanding job on graphics, gameplay, but the over all experience for an open beta has been a horrible one, at least for me it has been horrible and not fun to play the game. I still play as I am a loyal BT fan and love the MW games. Just my 2 cents as I see both sides to the story and I only really see the 1 main problem, IMO.

First quit sucking the corporate Kool-Aid. MWO is in wide release, anyone can play it and Pirahna is accepting cash now to buy items. The game IS NOT in Beta.

When you play an online game, the builds and features continuously change throughout the lifetime of the game. What is expected of online games is that the game team has an active test server with 100+ game testers playing the game to test out new changes to see if there is a way to exploit/break the game. If Pirahna has 25 testers who are not part of Pirahnas own game team testing you can castrate me. Because frankly Pirahna isn't testing jack. Their lead gameplay mechanic just throws stuff onto the walls without adequate testing (Cataphract exploding heads, artemis instant kills, streaks always hitting CT). The guy should not be making those decisions without thousands of man hours of game play to back them.

[BlackIC]

Nah,thats like saying Streak SRMs are OP ton for ton when piled into a streak cat....

or SRM's etc

ECM does no dmg....its a tool, like a jumpjet,double heat sink or XL engiene.If you like it play it.

[Felix]

BlackIC, on 09 December 2012 - 02:54 PM, said:

Nah,thats like saying Streak SRMs are OP ton for ton when piled into a streak cat....

or SRM's etc

ECM does no dmg....its a tool, like a jumpjet,double heat sink or XL engiene.If you like it play it.

SSRMS are over powered when piled in.

and ECM is a massive shield, it doesnt do damage but is still overpowered as hell.

How would you enjoy seeing an item that shuts down all lasers except for small lasers when they are within a few hundred meters of a mech carrying it?