85 replies to this topic

[Zylo]

Lefty Lucy, on 11 December 2012 - 02:39 AM, said:

Like pre-mades aren't doing the same thing about the 8-man queue.

"they won because they stacked atlases"

"they won because they just base rush"

"they won because they have too much ECM"

I'm sure many are and I suspect many came back into the small groups + random player games trying to sync-drop to score easy kills.

Small group pre-mades are stuck in a bad spot right now with all the pre-made hate from the random players due to the sync-drops by some larger merc groups and meeting the occasional sync-drop 2x 4-player pre-made teams.

[Ilwrath]

Zylo, on 11 December 2012 - 02:50 AM, said:

I'm sure many are and I suspect many came back into the small groups + random player games trying to sync-drop to score easy kills.

Small group pre-mades are stuck in a bad spot right now with all the pre-made hate from the random players due to the sync-drops by some larger merc groups and meeting the occasional sync-drop 2x 4-player pre-made teams.

Hate against premades or players in general is pointless. They are not to blame. People are playing under the rules set by the devs and if those rules stinks well then the hate need to be pointed at those responsible.

[Zylo]

Ilwrath, on 11 December 2012 - 03:03 AM, said:

Hate against premades or players in general is pointless. They are not to blame. People are playing under the rules set by the devs and if those rules stinks well then the hate need to be pointed at those responsible.

Well all those who want any sort of pre-made out of random games are leaving no place for the small-group pre-made teams. It seems due to the actions of some corps sync-dropping 8 player teams (2x groups of 4) have really caused negative feelings against all forms of pre-made groups, even those that are 2, 3 or 4 players and not abusing the system.

I lead a small merc corp that is just over 1 month old and currently small group play is where we spend most of our time due to the smaller size. Even as we grow we will not always have exactly the right number of players online to get multiple 8 player teams going with no players left out.

Small groups need somewhere to play. The logical choice is a balanced matchmaker that will place a single pre-made group on each side and fill the rest of the spots with random players that are not in any form of group. When this is done both small groups and lone-wolf type players without groups will have a far better and much more balanced experience.

[Ilwrath]

Zylo, on 11 December 2012 - 03:11 AM, said:

Small groups need somewhere to play. The logical choice is a balanced matchmaker that will place a single pre-made group on each side and fill the rest of the spots with random players that are not in any form of group. When this is done both small groups and lone-wolf type players without groups will have a far better and much more balanced experience.

Small groups are fine as long as you get one on each side. One or two akf'ers don't really matter then.
I would love to hear the reason why the devs don't do this. It is almost like they want to break their own game
or has moved over to new projects with only a shadow crew left caring for this one. I cannot really believe that
either because games don't go into maintenance mode while in beta. They just get shut down instead.

[Vanguard319]

Kronos907, on 10 December 2012 - 07:59 PM, said:

4 out of 5 PUGGERS are baindead theres no helping that, i pretty much 100% pug any more, and there are time when after dieing have to watch through spectator mode as those SPECIAL people trudge around and shoot at everything besides the enemy, they shoot the sky.... they shoot the ground (good thing they cant shoot there own foot off)...... they shoot there own teamates, while trying to shoot the ground or the sky.

Honestly i get so frustrated sometimes i find that i am punching myself in the face and dont even know it.

I have TS and have used it but i guess that im just a glutton for punishment find it more challenging to PUG (GOD help me!)

I suppose that im secretly hopeing that PGI will implement a triggered movement in the game were if one of my fellow Puggers raises his arms to high and fires that he will shoot himself in the head. (I think im ranting, ill stop now).

I have to agree with this view, nowadays I only pug while I'm waiting for a premade to open, mostly due to 90% of the pugs I wind up with making the term synonymous with cannon fodder. I mentioned way back in closed beta that the game needed some kind of training/tutorial mode, something that would allow a new player a chance to learn the basics. Of course, you have to admit you're a failure before you can take steps to do anything about it, and I think ppl would rather deny that they just suck, and blame thier fails on things like guass cats and ecm rather than swallow thier useless pride.

[PeekaySK]

Korm, on 11 December 2012 - 02:02 AM, said:

I don't care much about a premade boogeyman killing me, but I can tell something is wrong when my team goes 2/8 or 1/8. It's probably normal to have one or two newbs in my team. Sure they have to earn their "wings" on the battlefield, but I doubt in possibility of being teamed up with a whole team of newbs.

(the following is written strictly from a PUG perspective, my friends don't want to play with me )

I'd like to share a suspicion that has been developing in my mind for a while. Thing is, the number of matches I've been in that went 1/8 or 2/8 dropped radically after the "4-man max" patch, but then increased with the ECM patch. The drop is easily explained by the whole "no more 8-man teams stomping newbs" thing, I guess. The recent increase in such one-sided matches I've been giving some thought... and I'm starting to think it might be more connected to the ECM's effect than to any "synch drops" or whatever. Thing is, when you don't see on the map where exactly your teammates died in a close fight, it's really hard to come in and finish the enemy that only needs two or three shots, really. This not only leads to more people surviving than they did previously, which messes with the final tally and the perception of how lopsided the match really was, it actually contributes to the lopsidedness - someone that only needs one shot to die can kill you just fine, when he's the third man in a 2v3 situation, for instance.

TL;DR version: with the advent of ECM, it's harder to turn games around - once your side starts losing, it will most probably lose.

Edited by PeekaySK, 11 December 2012 - 04:06 AM.

[Armorpiercer M82]

1. pugs only (no teams allowed to enter)

2. premades 8v8 only

3. premades 4v4 + pugs (optional)


so easy it is....

[Ilwrath]

Armorpiercer M82, on 11 December 2012 - 04:07 AM, said:

1. pugs only (no teams allowed to enter)

2. premades 8v8 only

3. premades 4v4 + pugs (optional)


so easy it is....

But they don't do is it cannot be easy?
I guess its even easier to make dingdongs for the cockpit to bring in the cash?

Yeah yeah different part of the teams and so on but I don't care. Fix what must be fixed and then you can
try getting some cash from us.

[Bloody Moon]

Vanguard319, on 11 December 2012 - 03:36 AM, said:

I have to agree with this view, nowadays I only pug while I'm waiting for a premade to open, mostly due to 90% of the pugs I wind up with making the term synonymous with cannon fodder. I mentioned way back in closed beta that the game needed some kind of training/tutorial mode, something that would allow a new player a chance to learn the basics. Of course, you have to admit you're a failure before you can take steps to do anything about it, and I think ppl would rather deny that they just suck, and blame thier fails on things like guass cats and ecm rather than swallow thier useless pride.

To be fair even a well made tutorial wouldn't make a difference, sure it would be damn good to have a tutorial, but the average online gamer won't ever admit that he might be doin' something wrong. So he won't be much more to a good player than a speedbump as the latter will examine the situation:

• How does my loadout/mech relate to my playstyle and the enemy? Is it good enough?
  
• Could my positioning be better?
  
• How can i counter that setup/tactic?

And many more questions after each battle. If the answer is no to all of these questions then think again. There is always room for improvement, but most players will never accept this, so they won't evolve and get left behind.

Edited by Bloody Moon, 11 December 2012 - 04:55 AM.

[BoomDog]

Bloody Moon, on 11 December 2012 - 04:54 AM, said:

To be fair even a well made tutorial wouldn't make a difference

Congratulations, you just won the "Most Wrong Statement Ever" award.

Edited by BoomDog, 11 December 2012 - 06:00 AM.

[Bloody Moon]

BoomDog, on 11 December 2012 - 05:59 AM, said:

Congratulations, you just won the "Worst Statement Ever" award.

Fixed it for you.

By the way, check games with proper tutorials, sure it is noob friendly at the start, which attracts more players and is generally a good thing, but after the very basics official tutorials won't make you a better player.

[Ilwrath]

Bloody Moon, on 11 December 2012 - 06:09 AM, said:

Fixed it for you.

By the way, check games with proper tutorials, sure it is noob friendly at the start, which attracts more players and is generally a good thing, but after the very basics official tutorials won't make you a better player.

More important than any tutorial: player tips at loading screen so new players get reminded every time they start up a match.

Use "r" for targeting
Do not run off alone
Lead your shots at fast moving targets

The loading of the game is rather long and should be used. I am sure that would help a lot for new players.
Much more than any tutorial.

Most games with load screen have some kind of tips but this game is the first I have seen that BADLY NEED
them... and don't have them.

[Bloody Moon]

I would go further and display tips under the countdown aswell so new players with fast loading speed can read them.

Anyway i was not talking about the players who just started originally, i posted about "experienced" players who can't admit their own mistakes and live under the false impression that they are stomped 'cos of aimbots, premades, whatever rather than admitting the fact that they made mistakes.

Edited by Bloody Moon, 11 December 2012 - 06:29 AM.

[BeezleBug]

puging right now is hell.Since the 8 vs 8 it is much worse.
U cant just go into the game and make some matches without TS. Its a waste of time u make no xp, no money and u have no fun. U will be crushed by 4 Team´s. I think there much more pug games at the moment with one 4 team on one side and only pug´s on the other
.
The Matchmaking is still very very bad. New players with such a matchmaking??? i don´t think so.
U fight against ECM and 4 Team´s, with trial mechs, there is no chance to win this especially 4 new players.
After 6 Months PGI has no matchmaking at all for only ONE game mode (Capture). This is really sad there is no apology
for this.
U want free to play u need much more players to run this game in the future. For beginners this game is much to
hard. They need a playground where they can practice, not a 4 Team in High Tech Mechs what is pounding them to dust.
They don´t need 3rd person bull... they need much better matchmaking and a good tutorial and a mechbay with better weapon descriptions.
gaming is about fun and competition, there is not much out there for a pug at the moment.

[Armorpiercer M82]

beezlebug: they say, they are working on new user expirience 0.5 - 18. dec..... lets see.

but I really dont get it, why they dont completely separate pugs and premades. This is a must.

[Bloody Moon]

BeezleBug, on 11 December 2012 - 06:34 AM, said:

puging right now is hell.Since the 8 vs 8 it is much worse.
U cant just go into the game and make some matches without TS. Its a waste of time u make no xp, no money and u have no fun. U will be crushed by 4 Team´s. I think there much more pug games at the moment with one 4 team on one side and only pug´s on the other

See? This is what i'm talking about...
With 800ish solo que Open Beta battles behind my back i can say this is BS. You can do fairly well in PUG games, 4-man teams exist, but they don't flood most of the games.
However further balancing is necessary in how the matchmaker handles premade teams, trial mechs and so on, but it's not the end of the world.


Also educate yourself:

http://mwomercs.com/...79-matchmaking/
http://mwomercs.com/...ember-4th-2012/

An ELO based matchmaker won't code itself y'know.

[Diomed]

I only PUG. I have never grouped, ever. 102/172. I think I was in 3 wins yesterday out of 20 or so battles. PUG'ing is not fine. PUG'ing is a mess.

Those of you who think PUGs are fine are either delusional, ignorant of the facts or deliberately lying to maintain your easy kills.

[Sturmbringer]

"puging right now is hell.Since the 8 vs 8 it is much worse."

true that.. yes you CAN have fun matches in PUGs but most of the time its a painful meatgrinder.
there have to be changes.. or new players wont come in.

I asked a friend of mine who plays WoT to try MWO. He played 5-10 games.. lost all of them, didnt kill anything and went back to WoT. While I accused him of not giving the game a real chance I fear that others might react like him.

Edited by Sturmbringer, 11 December 2012 - 09:48 AM.

[Enigmos]

Many pug players have grown to be quite competent, and some are quite good.

It is inconsistent because we are seeing new faces all the time, and they are naturally still learning the basics of the game.

It will get better when grouped players can drop again versus grouped players, but with fewer than 8 mechs a side.

8v8 will get better in Phase III, but with that min 8 mech grouping mechanism when pilots are scarce you are necessarily going to see 4-mans grinding c-bills.

[Moonsavage]

If OP had 100 wins for 2 losses, then he had an unfair advantage over his opponents. Honestly - anything more than a 1:1 win loss ration is a sign that there is something wrong with the game.