211 replies to this topic

[WolfSpider]

Hey Thomas Horgarth do you have the picture of the primitive Wasp that came out in the second TRO for the age of war that you could post? My copy is on my computer that is packed away in storage. I also remember reading that Herb was thinking of redesigning all the unseen from the ground up so they could use new images in their star league era source books.

[Melissia]

Right, we just exclude them because they're rip-offs instead.

[DarkTreader]

Y'know... with the way Paul trolls us...
<wishfulthinking>
I wouldn't be surprised if PGI already has all of the Unseen 'Mechs fully built and kitted, and is waiting for launch to make us all collectively **** ourselves, as we fire up the game, head to the 'Mech shop, and see the List of All That Is Awesome... which also, I suppose, should include an Awesome. But yes. Who says they haven't made them already?
</wishfulthinking>

[Thomas Hogarth]

DirePhoenix, on 16 May 2012 - 01:07 PM, said:

I would call that a huge gaping flaw in this plan of making knock-off 'mechs based on loadouts, which is that loadout/hardpoint slots alone do not make a 'mech. You're missing tons of weight that should be going toward armor or other equipment.

I agree. Compare the secondary batteries of the K2 and the WHM-6R and you'll see where the distinction lies. To speak nothing of the AC/5 of the Marauder. Sure, the K2 has a bit better heat sinking ability than either of them, but that's not the point. To make it equal, drop the MGs out of the Warhammer, and boom, you got the same sinking capability, and way more firepower. The two simply do not compare.

WolfSpider, on 16 May 2012 - 02:13 PM, said:

Hey Thomas Horgarth do you have the picture of the primitive Wasp that came out in the second TRO for the age of war that you could post? My copy is on my computer that is packed away in storage. I also remember reading that Herb was thinking of redesigning all the unseen from the ground up so they could use new images in their star league era source books.

Yeap, published in 2012, the Primitive Wasp, which I think would work fine for a normal Wasp.


Also worth considering:

Primitive Shadow Hawk. Odd how close it looks. This was published in 2010, so they obviously didn't think it was much of an issue.


Wolverine II, the form of which I would not mind at all being used for the Wolverine, out of OpKlondike, another recent publication:


And let's not forget the new art for the Battleaxe, also published in 2012. Hell, I'd say it'd make a fine Warhammer without a name change.

DarkTreader, on 16 May 2012 - 02:48 PM, said:

Y'know... with the way Paul trolls us...
<wishfulthinking>
I wouldn't be surprised if PGI already has all of the Unseen 'Mechs fully built and kitted, and is waiting for launch to make us all collectively **** ourselves, as we fire up the game, head to the 'Mech shop, and see the List of All That Is Awesome... which also, I suppose, should include an Awesome. But yes. Who says they haven't made them already?
</wishfulthinking>

Well... eh... erm. eh. I'll PM you offsite.

[Jakebob]

I'd rather see Piranha make their own versions than use some of those Reseen designs... the Reseen Marauder is just plain ugly... there's gotta be a better way to design it so that it's different enough from the Unseen version to avoid legal difficulties. (I'm not an artist or a lawyer)

[Thomas Hogarth]

Jakebob, on 16 May 2012 - 04:59 PM, said:

I'd rather see Piranha make their own versions than use some of those Reseen designs... the Reseen Marauder is just plain ugly... there's gotta be a better way to design it so that it's different enough from the Unseen version to avoid legal difficulties. (I'm not an artist or a lawyer)

Yeah, that'd be fine too.

[edit] The reason I like the reseen is because they have evidence of legal defense-ability. Ten years and not a peep about them speaks volumes.

Edited by Thomas Hogarth, 16 May 2012 - 05:09 PM.

[veretax]

Prosperity Park, on 15 May 2012 - 07:47 PM, said:

The Mechs called "The Unseen" were originally drawn illegally, a copy of someone else's work, and so you're not allowsd to sell their original images anymore.

However, they have all been redrawn in the BattleTech product called Project Phoenix, and Flying Debris can design Concept Art for any Unseen Mech he wants to as long as he bases the concept art on the Project Phoenix redrawn images. So, therefore, there is no Legal reason to keep the redrawn Unseen Mechs out of MW:O since you can just use the new Project Phoenix imagery.

The following Mechs are allowed, assuming we can rally some support and overwhelm the detractors:

Locust
Stinger
Wasp
Valkyrie
Ostscout
Phoenix Hawk
Griffin
Scorpion
Shadow Hawk
Wolverine
Ostroc
Ostsol
Rifleman
Crusader
Thunderbolt
Archer
Warhammer
Marauder
Goliath
Battlemaster
Longbow
Marauder II

I'd love to see the Battlemaster, Marauder, Warhammer, for sure, Crusader is a favorite too.

[WolfSpider]

A Battlemaster would be the "bees knees" 6 medium lasers firing forward with a SRM-6, PPC, and don't forget the machine guns. That is like mega damage to any mech. ( I say 6 because they seem to move the rear lasers to the front for this game)

[Hayden]

WolfSpider, on 16 May 2012 - 07:43 PM, said:

A Battlemaster would be the "bees knees" 6 medium lasers firing forward with a SRM-6, PPC, and don't forget the machine guns. That is like mega damage to any mech. ( I say 6 because they seem to move the rear lasers to the front for this game)

Reseen battlemaster isn't that far off from the unseen. I really have high hopes for it making it in.

[Suskis]

none of the mechs the devs have shown us until now are like the orignal 3025 artwork (add in the Raven, a mech I didn't think should have added in this 1st batch of mechs, being not from 3025).
so, you don't have to call them UNseen or REseen cause none of the mech this game is going to have has the original artwork at all.
so, yes, I really hope we are getting Marauder, Locust, Warhammer, Battlemaster and all the best looking mechs from Project Phoenix.

And the fact that none of them has appeared yet makes me believe they will be available only to premium players.

PS:

I suspect they are making Marauder the best looking mech ever, to have people spend tons of real money on it. I'll be one of them, of course! I'd pay happily 50$ for a beastly Marauder!

Edited by Suskis, 16 May 2012 - 11:35 PM.

[Wolf Hreda]

Yoseful Mallad, on 16 May 2012 - 03:03 AM, said:

All the redesigned unseens that you see in the project pheonix tech manual are all legal to use.

Ah, but are they a good idea to use? Would they be singled out for extermination by the concerned masses wishing not to have their hideous mockery spread throughout the Inner Sphere? And has anyone noticed that the Reseen Marauder appears to be either dancing, or having an epileptic seizure?

Edited by Wolf Hreda, 17 May 2012 - 04:30 AM.

[Zakatak]

Jakebob, on 16 May 2012 - 04:59 PM, said:

I'd rather see Piranha make their own versions than use some of those Reseen designs... the Reseen Marauder is just plain ugly... there's gotta be a better way to design it so that it's different enough from the Unseen version to avoid legal difficulties. (I'm not an artist or a lawyer)

Here is a fairly different Marauder design. Just change the feet to the three-toe style to insure difference, and put in the game. If Harmony doesn't like it, nuke em.



Another style.

[Voridan Atreides]

Zakatak, on 17 May 2012 - 05:36 AM, said:

Here is a fairly different Marauder design. Just change the feet to the three-toe style to insure difference, and put in the game. If Harmony doesn't like it, nuke em.



Another style.

They look alright. Well the second one does..

[Kaemon]

Zakatak, on 17 May 2012 - 05:36 AM, said:

Here is a fairly different Marauder design. Just change the feet to the three-toe style to insure difference, and put in the game. If Harmony doesn't like it, nuke em.

pic
Another style.

Already posted, and without artist credit.

Forum fail, hang your head in shame!

Edited by Kaemon, 17 May 2012 - 08:46 AM.

[Creed Buhallin]

I know there's a ton of wishful thinking on this, but anyone who is the least bit familiar with the complexities of IP law should know better than to get into this.

Just because the Project Phoenix designs were legal for use by Catalyst does NOT automatically mean they can be used by PGI. There are numerous legal structures which would allow Catalyst to publish them, and Iron Wind to make miniatures, without allowing their use by PGI for an online game.

Yes, it would be great to see FD's take on a Marauder... But it would still be a Marauder. Ask yourselves this: If you saw FD's concept art attached to Big Battlin' Bots: Online, would you be screaming "They're ripping off BattleTech!!"? I'm having to think the answer is yes - and the same applies to the Unseen designs.

We'd all love to see them. PGI knows this, and I'm sure THEY'D love to see them. If they can make it work, I'm sure they will. Spamming a forum with half-informed armchair legal analysis telling PGI what they can and cannot use is simply insulting.

[DirePhoenix]

Kaemon, on 17 May 2012 - 08:45 AM, said:

Already posted, and without artist credit.

Forum fail, hang your head in shame!

? The artist's signature is right there at the bottom. It's not like he erased it and claimed it was someone else's.

Also, does anyone else see the "Unseen" Archer in the Dragon model? Just give it some shoulder missile racks and a hand actuator for that right arm...

Edited by DirePhoenix, 17 May 2012 - 10:13 AM.

[Solis Obscuri]

DirePhoenix, on 17 May 2012 - 10:10 AM, said:

? The artist's signature is right there at the bottom. It's not like he erased it and claimed it was someone else's.

Also, does anyone else see the "Unseen" Archer in the Dragon model? Just give it some shoulder missile racks and a hand actuator for that right arm...

Looks like a Dragon to me, but both chassis share some similarities in torso shape, but the shoulders, hips, and cockpit of the Dragon have always been different.

[DirePhoenix]

Solis Obscuri, on 17 May 2012 - 11:12 AM, said:

Looks like a Dragon to me, but both chassis share some similarities in torso shape, but the shoulders, hips, and cockpit of the Dragon have always been different.

Well, in the actual Archer fluff, the cockpit is supposed to be down in the "nose" of the torso, instead of the cockpit blister up top like the Dragon (and the Macross Gladiator that the Archer is based on)

[Solis Obscuri]

DirePhoenix, on 17 May 2012 - 11:29 AM, said:

Well, in the actual Archer fluff, the cockpit is supposed to be down in the "nose" of the torso, instead of the cockpit blister up top like the Dragon (and the Macross Gladiator that the Archer is based on)

Yep, that's why I mentioned the Dragon's cockpit being "different".

[Aegis Kleais]

I've seen far too many times where a legal-iffy subject matter was used, even when it had secured rights to be used, and then the other party that had rights to it simply waits until the game is making maximum profit before they launch some kind of legal front (and thanks to moronic legalities and such WIN their case)

So it's understandable if PGI wants to take the safe approach.