269 replies to this topic

[Kousagi]

Scryed, on 13 December 2012 - 11:30 AM, said:

You mean 30 percent of people that voted, otherwise what you are telling me is that there are only 215 people on this forum

Its more that this topic is no where near important. I would say most people are fine with ECM, thats why no one votes for this kinda stuff. Its not like this is the 3rd person view thread, that got like 3k+ voters in no time flat.

Edited by Kousagi, 13 December 2012 - 11:34 AM.

[Ransack]

TruePoindexter, on 13 December 2012 - 11:14 AM, said:

The dev working on networking is not the dev who is working on match making. These two are not related. Also you apparently support wildly imbalanced games so what's wrong with ECM?

regardless of what dev is working on what, the netcode fixing needs to be a high priority. You put collisions back in and light won't seem so OP anymore, and no one will care about weight. What is wrong with ECM? It's not supposed to be a cloak of invisibility, it shouldn't stack, you have to do more to counter it than you do to activate it. It negates too many more expensive systems, it's cheap, want more? Go look at the ECM feedback thread.

Tolkein sums up nicely the things that a cheap 1.5 ton two crit inexpensive piece of equipment that generates no heat negates.

Quote

Artemis
BAP
Tag bonuses (and the whole system inside of 180m)
NARC - a system which takes more space, weighs more, requires real coordination and skill and has ammo.
other ECMs
LRM locks
SRM locks
general targeting info
relegate AMS to almost pointlessness
have no exploding ammo
generate no heat
cost less than a module by a factor of 15

That's pretty broken

No, I do not favor Wildly imbalanced games. I'm just practical. Take a look at any sport, are the two teams ever identical in composition? No. They are equal in the number of participants only.

An 8 man Assault team may never find a match unless another team is all assualts. 8vs8, let them have at it. I do think something should be done about synch dropping, but Paul said that would be dealt with in phase 3, so i didn't bother to comment on that.

And for the record, I run ECM on my D-DC. I still think its way overpowered.

Edited by Ransack, 13 December 2012 - 11:39 AM.

[Kremator1968]

ECM is fine the way it is. Find another strategy to counter it.

8 man drops need to be limited to 500 tons.

Pugs should be no more than 2 people.

[Pygar]

Harrison Kelly, on 13 December 2012 - 11:25 AM, said:

The A1's build options went from....

I was reading this post intently until this line....and then it all boiled down to "In my opinion as a Catapult pilot...now I might have to play a different mech" and I stopped caring.

Edited by Pygar, 13 December 2012 - 11:44 AM.

[3rdworld]

Kousagi, on 13 December 2012 - 11:34 AM, said:

Its more that this topic is no where near important. I would say most people are fine with ECM, thats why no one votes for this kinda stuff. Its not like this is the 3rd person view thread, that got like 3k+ voters in no time flat.

That thread also appeared the day or so after the 3rd person comment.

ECM has been around for over a week. There were polls when ECM was released that had much different results.

Also the framing of responses could be better.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Mancu, on 13 December 2012 - 10:58 AM, said:

So you consider the current Ninja Cap Rushes and 300m Blob Fights tactical? Those aren't tactical in any way shape or form. What you really mean is you prefer to run at the enemy and pew pew pew until one side or the other is dead. Which is fine, but please don't try to play it off as tactical or skillz gaming - its not.

Someone finally gets it!

[ReD3y3]

On the weight balancer.

I love to see what the other team is going to bring at us. It is a challenge I enjoy to adjust strategy to what the team has. I dont want cookie cutter drops where it is pretty much pre determined what mechs I will be facing.

[Kousagi]

3rdworld, on 13 December 2012 - 11:36 AM, said:

That thread also appeared the day or so after the 3rd person comment.

ECM has been around for over a week. There were polls when ECM was released that had much different results.

Also the framing of responses could be better.

yes, but from all the ECM complain threads, its seems pretty split. Some people hate it, some people like it, some people don't care. Though most of the ECM hate threads have been started by the same people, over and over again. Where as the 3rd person thread was started and the whole community shot it down, even the guys that never post shot it down.

[ReD3y3]

Bluten, on 13 December 2012 - 11:37 AM, said:

Someone finally gets it!

If that is how you are playing then that is your fault. If you are not actively checking all avenues to your base cap as you push from your base... then you would get capped ECM or not.

What the poll shows is that most people (%70) who are interested in ECM mostly like the way it is implimented.

Polls that come out right after a new item is introduced are always skewed to OP. No matter the game. ECM has had time (albeit just a week) to be played by alot of people, and now they are seeing it isnt as OP as the stats suggest.

This poll resembles IMO what I hear from people on TS and in game.

Unfortuneately, the %30 of people that dislike it. REALLY dislike it and are the squeaky wheels. We will see how PGI deals with the issue.

I hope they just leave ECM alone for a long while and pass some buffs to TAG. (range increase is good, now make it so it works whether you are in an enemy ECM bubble or not)

Edited by ReD3y3, 13 December 2012 - 11:43 AM.

[Pygar]

Kremator1968, on 13 December 2012 - 11:35 AM, said:

ECM is fine the way it is. Find another strategy to counter it.

8 man drops need to be limited to 500 tons.

Pugs should be no more than 2 people.

Yup...500 tons for 8v8 sounds about perfect. Maybe with some other tonnage penalties for certain other assets like ECM or command equipment to go with it, but just the tonnage limit would shift the current 8v8 meta nicely.

[Indk]

A plea to scrubs: L2P

[Phatel]

Take your ECM is op QQ and quit playing till they change it. I hear good pilots just adapt but what do I know, I rarely pug now that 8mans are back. I could also care less about 8 man balance, I enjoy not knowing what is gonna drop against me. makes it exciting to never know.

Thontor, on 13 December 2012 - 11:40 AM, said:

simply implementing a max total team tonnage isn't going to force people into cookie cutter drops. There will still be a lot of room for variety.

Plus its logical, dropships do have a weight limit on how much they can carry don't they?

yes, you could never bring more than 1 drop ship, things are always balanced. Everyone should also bring the same weapons and certain loadouts and modules should be limited cause they are OP and the color black is very common so no mechs in black.

[nom de guerre]

Indk, on 13 December 2012 - 11:42 AM, said:

A plea to scrubs: L2P

/thread.

[Nathan Bloodguard]

Just want to say, I agree with removing ECM till it gets a balancer by some means, but i actually don't find it that bad at the moment. Unfortunately we should be listening to the masses and they seem to not like it in its current configuration.

Needless to say i do think it should stay, but not at the expense of players leaving. As for the other two points, splitting up the four man teams so they both can't be on the same team (2 four man teams vs full PUG team = Bad juju). As for the eight man team, haven't gotten that far yet. However having fought a full 8 man assault (or light) team as a pug team, with a normal team load out, was not fun at all.

[Pygar]

Phatel, on 13 December 2012 - 11:47 AM, said:

Take your ECM is op QQ and quit playing till they change it. I hear good pilots just adapt but what do I know, I rarely pug now that 8mans are back. I could also care less about 8 man balance, I enjoy not knowing what is gonna drop against me. makes it exciting to never know.


yes, you could never bring more than 1 drop ship, things are always balanced. Everyone should also bring the same weapons and certain loadouts and modules should be limited cause they are OP and the color black is very common so no mechs in black.

Well, to be fair- 8v8 balance does need help right now... many teams are falling into a predictable pattern of 2 or 3 ECM scouts (usually Ravens) and the rest of the pack in assaults and heavies (mostly D-DC Atlas, occasionally Cataphracts or other sluggers). Theres still lots of good gameplay to be had, but too homogenous, too many other mechs getting put on the bench because there's no reason not to take moar Atases instead. (either because of lack of other options or lack of tonnage limit....tonnage limits have always been very important to maintain balance in MW/BT games, otherwise everybody always just brings the biggest mech they can.)

Edited by Pygar, 13 December 2012 - 11:58 AM.

[Phatel]

Thontor, on 13 December 2012 - 11:34 AM, said:

Yes, agreed.. I'm one of those people.


But one little piece of equipment should not be that game changing.

But LRMS forcing you to carry AMS and obliterating any kind of midfield game was ok. Streak cats with bap/artemis and 1second locks required such skill that they were also fine. The people upset about ECM are the same people that abused Streaks and boated LRM from 1k meters back. Hell, there is a list on here someplace where the guy listed off SRM/LRM/Artemis/Streaks like they are all not just Missles. As if it nerfed 4 things instead of just making 1 less impressive. Perhaps take ECM off the DC would be balance, but as it's working I have no issues with it. Streaks still function, missles still work and good pilots are having no issues.

Nathan Bloodguard, on 13 December 2012 - 11:52 AM, said:

Just want to say, I agree with removing ECM till it gets a balancer by some means, but i actually don't find it that bad at the moment. Unfortunately we should be listening to the masses and they seem to not like it in its current configuration.

Needless to say i do think it should stay, but not at the expense of players leaving. As for the other two points, splitting up the four man teams so they both can't be on the same team (2 four man teams vs full PUG team = Bad juju). As for the eight man team, haven't gotten that far yet. However having fought a full 8 man assault (or light) team as a pug team, with a normal team load out, was not fun at all.

The forums are not the masses, they have no access to how many people are playing, the volume of upset players or the mood of the general public. They are the 1% upset about something and they think if they scream loud enough that they will look like 99% instead of 1%

Edited by Phatel, 13 December 2012 - 11:56 AM.

[Carnex]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 13 December 2012 - 10:42 AM, said:

so ecm online is better than learning to avoid lrms...
op equipment trumps learning to play. good to know

The only way to play before ECM was to constantly cower behind cover and even that only worked partially as soon as a light found you and the LRM mech moved 30 feet left or right you were bombarded. There was no reason to brawl before the ECM patch and anyone who disagrees is lying to themselves.

[Phatel]

I can tell you that as far as balance. I've seen 8 man light groups destroy 8 man assault lances. Balance is in skilll more than mech.

[AlexWildeagle]

Bluten, on 13 December 2012 - 11:37 AM, said:

Someone finally gets it!

Obviously neither of you get it. If thats the extent of y'alls tactical abilities I feel sorry for you.

With ECM out there you have to actually seperate the pack, which is pretty easy since the atlas move too slow for anyone other then assaults and the lights move to fast (and usually scout) for anyone other then other lights.
That leaves a whole bunch of heavies and mediums losing their minds moving so slow or without ECM. Once you weed them out the lights and assaults are a lot easier to take care of.

[AlexWildeagle]

Phatel, on 13 December 2012 - 11:56 AM, said:

I can tell you that as far as balance. I've seen 8 man light groups destroy 8 man assault lances. Balance is in skilll more than mech.

You got that right. What you're seeing in this thread is a lot of people QQing because they lost their easy LRM pickins.