1329 replies to this topic

[0101101]

I will try out the Steel Battalion controller (XBOX) next week. Thanks god theres a 64bit driver out now. Hope its enhancing the overall experience, using m+kb atm.

[Reaper13]

Servocicero, on 17 June 2012 - 02:31 PM, said:

what about this?

http://www.gamebaz.c...om/?a=i&i=23695



I still have one sitting around, and it worked great for Ace Combat a few years ago.

I had one of these I used it on mercs for a while it was alright but for some reason xbox controllers drift on some games this one had a little drift at times but a restart normally fixed it

[Reaper13]

nr1pusher, on 09 August 2012 - 09:14 AM, said:

I will try out the Steel Battalion controller (XBOX) next week. Thanks god theres a 64bit driver out now. Hope its enhancing the overall experience, using m+kb atm.

I have only had one issue with the steel battalion controller and that was setting up the buttons I used Xpadder and it was okay a few drag issues but I have heard pinnacle game profiler is better. Total game control is another that one of my friend uses and he swears by it but he has one of the $500 flight sim setups

[PeptoB]

I'll add my piece to this if it helps anyone.

I actually have both of those joysticks. T.16000M and Saitek X52 Pro.

I bought the T.16000M last year anticipating IL2-COD, but didn't pan out. Then, I was thinking I could use it for BF3, but jets suck in that game. It sat unused, until MWO was announced.
I DL MW4:Mercs and starting to practice. I soon found that even though it has a lot of buttons, it does not have enough. I still needed to use the stupid keyboard (I forgot just how many commands there are). So I picked up a Razor nostromos.
Then I decided to scrap that entirely and get the X52 pro, for 136.00 at Amazon. Here is my thoughts on the joystick setups with MW4:Mercs.

Thrustmaster T.16000m:
PROs:

• Feels well built (with the exception of the throttle contorl). Very solid and heavy.
  
• Joystick feels more comfortable in hand than X52 pro (right handed).
  
• Can be used for right or left handed ppl (also a CON, see below).
  
• Very sturdy springs, which in my opinion helps me maintain control during aiming.
  
• Return to zero point on all axis is dead on. No deadspots (at least on the one I have)
  
• HAL sensors. Combine that with the spring tension, the motion feels very smooth and response is very accurate.
  
• I like the Button placement on stick (the base… not so much).

CONS:

• Throttle control is just a POT (potentiometer), and is linear. There are no step indicators to tell where the throttle is at. Can be hard to find stop if throttle is setup for forward and reverse, which is how I like it. Feels chintzy compared to the rest of the stick.
  
• Buttons placement on the base is merely ok. There are 12 on the base, but since the joystick can be configured for left or right handed user, the placement is symmetrical, and using the buttons on the other side proves too awkward to be useful.
  
• Keyboard supplement is most likely required. If so, then accessing the throttle on the stick is also awkward.

Saitek X52 Pro:
PROs:

• Main pro is that it is HOTAS. With separate throttle, there are plenty of buttons to map all that I need, at least in MW4:Mercs.
  
• The pinky shift function on the joystick is kickass! it is so useful and easy to use.
  
• Build construction is good overall. A few minor cheap spots, like the plastic covering the mode selection LED (minor nit really).
  
• Joystick is semi-adjustable for hand size. I have already made use of that.
  
• All of the buttons light up, cool factor. May be somewhat useful in the dark.
  
• Throttle is marked. Easy to know where you are at, and when you can stop. Reverse and full throttle are demarked by pressure stops. You know right where you are at with this throttle.
  
• HALS Sensors. Motion feels smooth and response is very accurately. No deadspots.
  
• LCD screen can be setup to display some things like time, and if you keep the names short, displays the mapped name of the button currently being used.
  
• Throttle has some good useful buttons. They can be shifted with pinky shift as well.
  
• The mode dial on the joystick lets you use more than one mapping setup for the same loaded profile.
  
• There are two hats (POV). One can be decoupled as a POV, and each hat movement can be mapped to a keyboard function. I use this to target enemies (prev /next /under reticle).
  
• Key mapping software is ok. Once you figure it out, it is not hard to use at all.

CONS:

• Button placement on stick is a bit awkward. The HAT is the first thing my thumb hits. Sometime when reaching for alternate “fire” buttons, I hit the hat in the process. Minor annoyance.
  
• Feel of the Joystick tension seems a bit loose. This can lead to a bit of over correction when trying to aim to fire. There has been mention of a MOD to help tighten the main spring.
  
• Because this was designed more for flight sims, some of the features on the throttle may go unused, such as the rotary dials. But better to have some go unused though then not have enough.
  
• R-Lock feature seems very weak. (Locks out Z-Axis if so desired). Thankfully, I won’t use it.
  
• There is a nice, large green button on the throttle that would be perfect to use, but it cannot be mapped. It is used to select a new profile in game if you want. Meh.
  
• The USB connection to the PC is from the throttle, not the joystick. In MY case, this sucks, because my PC is on the floor to the right of me. So I do not have as much slack as I want.
  
• Minor nit, but if a hat is decoupled from a POV and used as buttons, there is no shift feature available for additional mappings for that specific hat. Not a huge issue.

Summary:

To me, I like the feel of the Thrustmaster. It is more comfortable and it a bit easier to control the aiming due to the strong springs. However, the throttle is very weak. Also, there are not enough extra buttons (makes me wonder I ever played all my previous MW titles with my MS Sidewinder and still kicked ***…hmmm). I now feel if I used my TM, I would have to also use my keyboard. However, because I do not want to hunt for keys anymore (maybe I’m just getting old), I would have to go for a G13 or Nostromo. Then, at 50.00 for the T.16000M + 60.00ish for a new mini keyboard, that approaches the pricing of an entry level HOTAS. I also never used the TARGET software, so I cannot comment on it.

Therefore, I bought the X52 Pro (after reading some reviews, got the pro Vs standard).

The X52 setup gives me all of the controls that I need mapped right to my fingertips. As for the joystick, I like the look better, and the build quality is good, but the “feel” of the joystick is a bit weak and the button placement on the stick is a tad awkward. For me, to make it excellent, I would stiffen the springs and move the primary HAT up, and place a fire button below the primary hat. Then it would suit me 100%. The throttle however, is a significant plus. It is large, and very responsive. It does feel a bit plastic-y compared to the joystick however, but it is very functional. The software is not that bad. But one thing that really stands out is the pinky shift button. To me, it is so natural and extremely useful. So for now, even with some of the quirks, I will be going into MWO with my X52 pro setup. BTW, this evaluation is my expressed opinion of these two sticks that I own, and may differ from someone else’s opinion.

Hope this helps someone.
Pepto

[0101101]

Reaper13, on 09 August 2012 - 09:35 AM, said:

I have only had one issue with the steel battalion controller and that was setting up the buttons I used Xpadder and it was okay a few drag issues but I have heard pinnacle game profiler is better. Total game control is another that one of my friend uses and he swears by it but he has one of the $500 flight sim setups

Thank you, im using pinnacle game profiler and now i know i sure will find a nice setup. YEAH!

Edited by nr1pusher, 10 August 2012 - 04:24 AM.

[Bdiddytampa]

I just wanted to say thanks to Vulpesveritas for taking the time to put this guide together. I'm sure that it, combined with any computer users usual "googleing" of various reviews and benchmarks, will be of great help to anyone not already fully informed of different price points and comparisons. Thanks Vulpes

[lpmagic]

hiya vulp hope your transition to college works out well! your information is very valid here. Could you, would you if you have time, consider some intel builds? I agree, that if you are purely going for gaming and gaming, and then some more gaming, you are going to get the most bang for your buck. I would like to utilize other aplications and multi-task quite a bit, Intel might be a tad better in this arena. I would like to see some of your ideas in the arena of, I7 3770, good solid gpu (to run mek and some others) 8-16 gb ram, HDD are a dime a doze, so any 7200 should work. YOu seem to be a master of figuring out the pricing and the deals...
Thanks for your help!
college is kool you will be fine, fly your comp chops early and often, you will be a favorite with the masses

[Vulpesveritas]

lpmagic, on 10 August 2012 - 10:22 AM, said:

hiya vulp hope your transition to college works out well! your information is very valid here. Could you, would you if you have time, consider some intel builds? I agree, that if you are purely going for gaming and gaming, and then some more gaming, you are going to get the most bang for your buck. I would like to utilize other aplications and multi-task quite a bit, Intel might be a tad better in this arena. I would like to see some of your ideas in the arena of, I7 3770, good solid gpu (to run mek and some others) 8-16 gb ram, HDD are a dime a doze, so any 7200 should work. YOu seem to be a master of figuring out the pricing and the deals...
Thanks for your help!
college is kool you will be fine, fly your comp chops early and often, you will be a favorite with the masses

AMD generally has better bang-for-buck performance, especially if multitasking is your concern. Depending on what "other applications" you're running and how well they're threaded, would depend on what you're looking at. I'll send you a PM and ask more information on what you're looking at.

And yes, these builds are with MWO specifically in mind above all.

[Aznpersuasion89]

said i would run great with 7770, does not recognize my new 7850? oh well, i know im good.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

lpmagic, on 10 August 2012 - 10:22 AM, said:

hiya vulp hope your transition to college works out well! your information is very valid here. Could you, would you if you have time, consider some intel builds? I agree, that if you are purely going for gaming and gaming, and then some more gaming, you are going to get the most bang for your buck. I would like to utilize other aplications and multi-task quite a bit, Intel might be a tad better in this arena. I would like to see some of your ideas in the arena of, I7 3770, good solid gpu (to run mek and some others) 8-16 gb ram, HDD are a dime a doze, so any 7200 should work. YOu seem to be a master of figuring out the pricing and the deals...
Thanks for your help!
college is kool you will be fine, fly your comp chops early and often, you will be a favorite with the masses

Depends on your budget, there is no real gain in gaming between I5 and I7 processors, so you might as well save yourself the cash and grab an I5, reallocate the saved funds into increasing your GPU.
Games are more GPU reliant than CPU reliant. Even an old phenom II quad core processor will yield similar results to newer Ivybridge chips in gaming terms.

In general day to day multi-tasking (multiple web pages,streaming,gaming,music) neither chipset holds an advantage its just not CPU stressful enough to make a difference.

That said, the only precaution you need to take is with AMD Bulldozer chips, which are worse than low end intel chipsets in older single thread applications.

[Vulpesveritas]

DV McKenna, on 11 August 2012 - 04:00 AM, said:

That said, the only precaution you need to take is with sub-3.8ghz AMD Bulldozer chips, which are worse than low end intel chipsets in older single thread applications.

Fixed. The FX-4170 is still AMD's fastest single-thread chip despite being a bulldozer design. Followed by the Phenom II X4 chips above 3.4ghz, which the FX-6200 is on par with, but have the extra two cores, and overall is slightly faster than the Phenom II X6 1100t.

[MechDuster]

Great!
Just great!
My graphics card is overpowered but..
My Core oh god its not done for the minimum reqiurements..
though the biggest problem are my 2 GB of RAM..
Though RAM will be only taken from shadows and such things as water waves or something..
Will there be a Option to turn this off so that i have atleast a chance to play it..?!

[Carthraxis]

Thanks PeptoB, very helpful.

Can you tell me if the X52 Pro throttle will work in the game with a mouse, or do you have to use the joystick as well?

[shotokan5]

Great post. The Thrustmaster T- Flight Hotas for the money is the best stick on the market. With throttle a new one for 34 us I does not have the flash of the X 52 or X 54 but if you get one purchase an extended warrenty because you will need it. I went through 3 om 2 years and cant remember the final count but what matters most on a stick is the ability to lock on target without it jumping all over the place. The X52 and the thrustmaster will do the same job. Some of these others will not. the perfect example is the Logetech 3D Pro. The greatest layed out stick their is buttons are great throttle and feel fantastic but you can't hit the bull in the but with a base fiddle. To target is almost impossible. It has to be just in front of you about 1 meter away and even then you might miss. If you want to spend a lot of money the new razor be the price of a new car but as time and demand go down you might be able to pick one up for the price of a washer and dryer but it is cool.
I am used a thrustmaster for a long time and it for the money it can not be beaten. I through one out a window once brought it back inside and it still worked for a very long time. My only problem is that I can not get it to work with Mech online at all. I have the old buttonconversion system that is no longer available and I still can not get it to work. I hope soon ,a mouse and keyboard are killing me.

[Aznpersuasion89]

For those with a budget, i was able to get a 7850 into 7870 territory with a simple over clock. pretty good since im still only using one power connector

Edited by Aznpersuasion89, 12 August 2012 - 08:22 AM.

[Fynn]

Plasticcaz, on 09 August 2012 - 07:17 AM, said:

It claims I don't meet the minimum requirements... but my laptop can handle Skyrim on high... I would have thought that would mean I could at least run this game.

Here's what it came up with:

Reccomended:


NVIDIA GeForce GTX 285

Intel Core i5-2500 (3.3 GHz)

8192 MB



Minimum
Specifications

NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT

Intel Core 2 Duo E6750 (2.66 GHz)

4096 MB

Your System
Specifications




NVIDIA GeForce GT 520MX

Intel Core i7-2670QM Processor

4096 MB

I'm pretty sure my graphics is 2GB. I know I'm using a laptop, but that shouldn't make that much of a difference for being able to at least run the game. EDIT: Hmmm... I may have been mistaken... It may only be 1GB, but I was led to believe it was 2GB, if that is the case I'm not to happy about that.... but anyway, the point still stands, I can run Skyrim, why can't I run this?

Different game engine for a start, MWO, is useing the cryengine 3 ( same engine as Crysis 2), not sure what one skyrim use's.
Now on my pc, i can run Crysis 2 on min/med settings, but skyrim at max, and officaly my PC is just under min specs (on CPU) for MWO, but i can run it (just).
At the end of the day it all comes down to what engine a game is useing and how well that runs on your laptop/pc. You can always run the test again, but on crysis 2 and see what result you get for that.

@Mechduster, tbh i dont know m8, but hopefully by the time the game goes live, it should have full options in for fine tuning your settings to suit the player/PC, but only time will tell., And as of this moment in time, only a dev can answer that one, so may worth asking in the next "Ask the Dev's" thread, Oh and what CPU do you have by the way? And ram should be easy enough to upgrade to either 4 or 8 gb, depending on your motherboard.

Edited by Fynn, 12 August 2012 - 04:05 PM.

[Cephas Borg]

I'd like to add another Logitech product (deep breath) : The Thrustmaster TopGun AfterBurner ForceFeedBack (mine was boxed as a "Pro", but it ain't).

It looks a lot like the Thrustmaster T.Flight HOTAS, but is an earlier (and IMHO, slightly more reliable) build.

I'll get the cons out of the way first.

CONS:

• Old. Like me.
  
• Right-handed only, left-handed throttle only. Lefties need not apply, unfortunately.
  
• Pots, not Hall effect.
  
• Pots are mostly good quality units, but are prone to dust and grit.
  
• Grips can get warm and quite icky due to the use of some weird sweating soft plastic for the 'comfort' bits.
  
• A bit fiddly to clean internally (the stick, anyway, the throttle is much simpler).
  
• Driver/management software is old (2008) and is pre-configurable buttons (which is actually a pro, I think)
  
• Rudder is switchable between the twist grip and a horrible digital toggle thingy on the throttle.
  
• Not nearly enough buttons!

PROS:

• Reasonably well built. Bolts are used where bolts are needed, self-tapping screws otherwise.
  
• There's a dust seal on the stick (but the throttle is a bit of a dustcatcher).
  
• Pots *seem* to be reliable (mine was bought in 2003 and most are still OK, but see below)
  
• Great quality (Cherry) switches on the stick (on my unit, anyway).
  
• Rudder is switchable between the twist grip and a horrible digital toggle thingy on the throttle (yes, it's a con as well, due to the switch, but some folks like it).
  
• Single unit as shipped, but is splittable (throttle on the left, stick on the right, allen key included to undo the 2 bolts)
  
• When separated, all controls work to their full extents without moving the base units around.

Usage notes :
I replaced the rudder (twist grip) pot, this was a cast-iron beeyatch to get to, but was worth the AUD$0.84 I paid for a sealed pot from Jaycar (it even fit the slot perfectly). That was replaced in 2004, and hasn't been touched since.

The Y-axis gear mechanism is a POS. It was poorly factory formed, and if you really push (or pull) hard, it will slip a tooth and needs to be realigned, which can take up to an hour. I fixed that by a small metal stop epoxied in place.

Cleaning the pots is time-consuming, due to the horrific Chinese-puzzle-type construction of the joystick itself. However, once it's done, some silicone sealant will prevent the pots needing any further cleaning. Mine have lasted over 8 years without a clean, and apart from normal wear and tear, are almost out-of-the-box stable. I get about 3-5 counts of jitter at centre, less in force-feedback mode.

I also added some nice brushed nylon fuzz on the throttle slider, which has totally stopped any dust problems.

In other words, if you can find a used unit on eBay (they vary, AUD$12 - AUD$60 in the past 12 months), it could be a good buy if you're handy with a screwdriver and like mechanical things. It's sure-as-**!* a darn sight cheaper than the Australian replacement price for a current Warthog (~AUD$520 or more), and if you clean and seal the pots, lube the axis gears with a good quality silicon lubricant, and maybe replace any of the (bog-standard) microswitches in the stick with Cherry switches, you could get a nice, solid stick that should work for as long as it takes to save up for a real stick.

Personally, I'm trading up (across?) to a Saitek in the Real Near Future, but this is as much about my nephew wanting my joystick as it is about me wanting to spend all my wife bonus points on a new piece of kit.

In-game (as of today), the "standard" joystick configs work absolutely perfectly with the Topgun, all the switches are bindable, and it still beats the heck out of splitting between a keyboard and a mouse/trackball.

I hope this might be useful for anyone on a budget (or with a generous uncle).

[PeptoB]

Carthraxis, on 11 August 2012 - 07:58 PM, said:

Thanks PeptoB, very helpful.

Can you tell me if the X52 Pro throttle will work in the game with a mouse, or do you have to use the joystick as well?

I can say that the throttle will work if the joystick is unplugged. This is because the throttel contains the actual circuitry for the joystick unit. The throttle is the component that connects to the USB, while the joystick connects to the throttle. If you have a profile loaded and disconnect the joystick, what you have mapped to the throttle remains active.

Hope this helps!

Pepto

[Avi Kerensky]

I'm running 2gb of RAM, and a Core 2 Duo, with XP. The game runs, although not well. First match is a loser for me, period, after that, it loads, but very slowly, and gets choppy if I get in the middle of a big firefight. I have upgrades planned... and soon.

[Vulpesveritas]

Beginning weekly update. Will be changing update days to Wednesdays (possibly Fridays) due to my class schedule, and Thursdays being my busy day.
... it may end up being USA on Wednesday and Canada on Friday. We'll see.