223 replies to this topic

[Broceratops]

the main reason I didn't play my DDC more was because if I wanted money, it was pretty slow at getting it. in terms of all the numbers, it does better than my other mechs. so now my cash making mech will be an atlas

[ManDaisy]

Well... the criteria for good play will certainly shift. However, survival will definitely not be one of them. You will hear more people screaming for people to die rahter then rooting for them for surviving. I've been using strinctly atlas dc, no premium time, no bonuses what so ever. I have never had problems with money.

Edited by ManDaisy, 17 December 2012 - 11:10 AM.

[Kousagi]

Everyone freaking out about the removal of RnR does not seem to get what PGI is doing. Yes, they removed the button for it, but at the same time lowered rewards that you get. So in short, its like Forcing you to pay the current RnR costs on mechs.

Only thing I see with this standardization of rewards and removal of RnR is that low cost mech set ups will earn Less cbills now and high cost setups will earn the same amount, maybe a bit more then before. As i know before it was common for me to get 200+k Cbills after repair/rearm in a lower cost mech. If i used one with ammo and a high cost to rearm, i just added enough ammo to be able to run at 75% anyhow. No need to rearm then with free ammo.

So in short, this is a econ nerf, not a buff.

Edited by Kousagi, 17 December 2012 - 11:11 AM.

[Mercules]

Actually... going rambo and shooting every single enemy mech rewards you more than the guy who survived the whole match and killed three whole mechs 1 on 1 but didn't get to shoot anyone else.

[Dhrakyn]

Repair and rearm mechanics need to differ for House members vs. Mercenaries. Soldiers aren't expected to pay for their ammo and gear. Dirty mercs are.

-W

[Mavairo]

Not sure how I feel about this.

It will be funny though watching some people remove their case. Only to explode alot more violently when their STs get shot up though

Please remove your case. Expose your naughty naughty internals and ammunition to my guns... that's it just like that... yeah baby..

Wait.... YOU SAW NOTHING!

[FerretGR]

Joseph Mallan, on 17 December 2012 - 11:06 AM, said:

I have no reason to have CASE, or AMS on my Mech cause I don't have to fear teh hammer after the match any more. I can carry 12 tons of Ammo cause I don't have to pay to replace it or my Whole Mech when I take an ammo hit. The whole idea of having cost is balancing the concequences. Now there ia no need to fear the results of makig boneheaded choices...

... except the fear of not making any money because your bonehead decision to not use CASE got you killed when your 12 tons of ammo exploded, or not making money because you didn't take AMS and got LRMed to death before you fired a shot. Dying without doing anything makes you no money. These are techs that increase survivability. The consequences of the boneheaded decision to not use them are reduced survivability. Still sounds like it works to me.

Mercules, on 17 December 2012 - 11:10 AM, said:

Actually... going rambo and shooting every single enemy mech rewards you more than the guy who survived the whole match and killed three whole mechs 1 on 1 but didn't get to shoot anyone else.

That'd be true if the Rambos could survive for more than 30 seconds. My bets are on the guy killing 3 mechs having done more damage, removed more limbs, etc, in the 15 minutes they're rolling, than the Rambo does in the 10 seconds he survives after cresting the hill.

Penance, on 17 December 2012 - 10:43 AM, said:

I'm excited, although the game is loosing some of the sim / TT aspects, it's being made more accessable to the masses.

I'm the biggest TT guy in the world, and I think these changes are SUPER.

Phalanx100bc, on 17 December 2012 - 10:46 AM, said:

Game immersion into the Mechwarrior universe is important.....as is realism and consequences for your actions or lack thereof in the game.

I agree, and this is the one issue I saw with this when I first suggested it. The conclusion I came ot back then still holds up today: given the choice between this specific case of immersion and getting rid of AFK/suicide farming, I'll pick the latter EVERY TIME.

Phalanx100bc, on 17 December 2012 - 10:46 AM, said:

Need C-Bills? Learn to play pilot well and support teamates. I won't happen overnight. It will actually take effort and some time on your part and you will learn from your mistakes as there were economic consequences for it....well there USED to be.

Pretty sure this new economy will work exactly as you describe.

Need c-bills? You're ACTUALLY going to have to support your team now, instead of AFKing or DCing or hiding in a corner or whatever it is you did before when your team carried you. It won't happen overnight. It'll take some time to get used to doing something other than farming, and you will learn from your mistakes as there ARE economic consequences for it: you make no money if you have no impact.

Edited by FerretGR, 17 December 2012 - 11:31 AM.

[Noodlesoup]

Wescott, on 17 December 2012 - 10:41 AM, said:

It sure is likely to increase stupidly excessive missile spamming as no costs are holding things in ballance.

it didn't stop missile spamming today either. it just reduced people to using the 75% free reload.

ecm stopped missile spamming.

[Aym]

ManDaisy, on 17 December 2012 - 10:06 AM, said:

I am kinda worried that the devs have scrapped repairs all together. Repair cost are what kept stupid people from running in and dying. Now that its gone I anticipate a lot of dumber players and suicide tactics.

There is an absolute consquence to playing poorly, no rewards now. The old way you made money win lose or draw playing poorly.

[Kraven Kor]

Noth, on 17 December 2012 - 10:26 AM, said:

This actually encourages the game being balanced in gameplay, rather than out of gameplay by repair costs. That is a good thing and will lead to more variety in builds.

I hope you are right.

[Mercules]

FerretGR, on 17 December 2012 - 11:13 AM, said:

That'd be true if the Rambos could survive for more than 30 seconds. My bets are on the guy killing 3 mechs having done more damage, removed more limbs, etc, in the 15 minutes they're rolling, than the Rambo does in the 10 seconds he survives after cresting the hill.

Want another example? AC2 mech pings all of them at range and then sits back and earns C-bills for every kill that happens. Really, Rambo just needs an ER Large laser for range and ease of hitting and some speed and should be able to just zap all the enemy once and earn $85,000 C-bills if his side wipes them out. Meanwhile if he dies he can exit and spawn in another mech and repeat. Heck, he can do this in trials all day long and earn good money fairly quickly.

[J4ckInthebox]

Quote

• Enemy Kill = 5,000 * how many enemies you have killed
  
• Enemy Kill Assist =7,500 * how many kill assists you got in the match

This puzzles me. Does it mean that a kill assist is more rewarding than the killing blow altogether, or the killing blow rewards you 12500 Cbills? (7500 from the assit + 5000 from the killing blow)

[IceSerpent]

Dhrakyn, on 17 December 2012 - 11:10 AM, said:

Repair and rearm mechanics need to differ for House members vs. Mercenaries. Soldiers aren't expected to pay for their ammo and gear. Dirty mercs are.

Soldiers are not expected to choose what gear they want to use either - they fight with whatever weapons/vehicles they are given. Just saying...

[Kraven Kor]

J4ckInthebox, on 17 December 2012 - 11:23 AM, said:

This puzzles me. Does it mean that a kill assist is more rewarding than the killing blow altogether, or the killing blow rewards you 12500 Cbills? (7500 from the assit + 5000 from the killing blow)

You don't get an assist for your own kills.

You do, apparently, get 2,500 Component Destruction. Which, if that is indeed the case in every kill, means that a kill nets you the same cash as an assist, at the end of the day.

Which I'm fine with.

[p4r4g0n]

Doubtful you'd get both kill and kill assist reward ... doesn't work that way currently as far as I know.

[Elizander]

ManDaisy, on 17 December 2012 - 10:06 AM, said:

I am kinda worried that the devs have scrapped repairs all together. Repair cost are what kept stupid people from running in and dying. Now that its gone I anticipate a lot of dumber players and suicide tactics.

25k c-bill reward for last place so... probably not?

[Joseph Mallan]

IceSerpent, on 17 December 2012 - 11:24 AM, said:

Soldiers are not expected to choose what gear they want to use either - they fight with whatever weapons/vehicles they are given. Just saying...

And we don't pay for the repairs or Rearming. So we are house soldiers now!

[FerretGR]

Mercules, on 17 December 2012 - 11:22 AM, said:

Want another example? AC2 mech pings all of them at range and then sits back and earns C-bills for every kill that happens. Really, Rambo just needs an ER Large laser for range and ease of hitting and some speed and should be able to just zap all the enemy once and earn $85,000 C-bills if his side wipes them out. Meanwhile if he dies he can exit and spawn in another mech and repeat. Heck, he can do this in trials all day long and earn good money fairly quickly.

How does that work? You only get those assist $$ if your team wins. If you sit back scraping a few paint chips for the assist $$, your team is a heck of a lot less likely to win, IMHO, and you won't get many of those $$. You'd get more if you fought for them, earning some damage $$ to go along with your assist. And the damage $$ get rewarded even if you lose, which is a key point. The player who isn't participating is forced to do so, which is precisely what this change intends to cause to happen.

At any rate, that is not what a Rambo does. We're talking about different things. A Rambo suicide rushes. This will put an end to that.

Edited by FerretGR, 17 December 2012 - 11:33 AM.

[Ecres]

Kousagi, on 17 December 2012 - 11:09 AM, said:

Everyone freaking out about the removal of RnR does not seem to get what PGI is doing. Yes, they removed the button for it, but at the same time lowered rewards that you get. So in short, its like Forcing you to pay the current RnR costs on mechs.

Only thing I see with this standardization of rewards and removal of RnR is that low cost mech set ups will earn Less cbills now and high cost setups will earn the same amount, maybe a bit more then before. As i know before it was common for me to get 200+k Cbills after repair/rearm in a lower cost mech. If i used one with ammo and a high cost to rearm, i just added enough ammo to be able to run at 75% anyhow. No need to rearm then with free ammo.

So in short, this is a econ nerf, not a buff.

While you make some good points, the idea of an assault making more money because because his build is more expensive seems like it will just push everyone to run super expensive Atlas builds so they can make money because that seems to be all that people care about it more money more money.

I prefered when everything was standardised you made the same money for being in the same battle, your Atlas doesn't mean you did anything more to win that fight then my Hunchback so why should you make more money because you chose to ride in an expensive mech.

[Pugastrius]

Quote

How does that work? You only get those assist $$ if your team wins. If you sit back scraping a few paint chips for the assist $$, your team is a heck of a lot less likely to win, IMHO, and you won't get many of those $$. You'd get more if you fought for them. Which is what this change intends to rectify.

At any rate, that is not what a Rambo does. We're talking about different things. A Rambo suicide rushes. This will put an end to that.

This probably belongs in a different topic, but anyhow.
He's simply getting at the fact that if you "focus fire" a guy down from full yourself, you actually earn less (win or lose) than the guy that scratched the paint on all of the mechs.