142 replies to this topic

[Taizan]

OP failed to read the post in the command chair section:

Quote

We plan to make tuning adjustments over the coming weeks as we introduce more active rewards for non-combat aspects of the game.

Quote

NOTE: We plan to tweak the Conquest numbers in the New Year after collecting live analytics.

The new system is not even in yet and still needs tuning/tweaking over the time. Stop being such a drama queen.

[Arparso]

I find it funny how some people argue that you could already run expensive mech builds and that you were doing it wrong, if you were losing money because of it... so repair and rearm should stay, because otherwise people will run expensive mechs that they couldn't before. That doesn't make sense, does it? If people could already run these mechs before (by gaming the system and using welfare ammo) and can now continue to run these mechs, but without using these "exploits" - than what exactly did we lose?

It'll only get more intuitive fore the new players to use LRM boats or expensive equipment, instead of just the enthusiasts running these beasts, because they actually know about the free ammo and repairs. If anything this makes the playing field more fair and balanced than before.

Only thing I'm worried about is the new reward system seemingly favoring damage over anything else. Its true that a good pilot in a light mech can deal massive damage, but I still have the feeling, that assault and heavy players will still benefit the most... at least on average. That's something that needs to be looked into once the patch goes live. Passive win/lose rewards absolutely needed to go, though.

[Spitz]

Sifright, on 18 December 2012 - 02:27 AM, said:

challenges in a PVP game.

Come from your opponents.

Not from the equipment being to expensive to maintain.

Somehow I guess I was never thought for a second that giant military robots would be cheap to maintain. A lot of the equipment that is so expensive to maintain is that way for reason. XL engines give you extra tonnage to use. The high cost of repairs was part of that trade off. Now why would artemis missles be more expensive. Maybe because they are more effective. They would be expected to cost more. You have a choice not to use them and make more c-bills. But it would be more challenging on the battlefield.

There is also that glaring point that ppl don't want to admit. If you are having fun with the particular mech setup that is more expensive too maintain then maybe it doesn't matter if your stacking c-bills that day. Maybe instead of worrying about how many c-bills they can stack they could focus on what was it you said... "challenges from your opponents" in a mech they are having fun in.

[Sifright]

Spitz, on 18 December 2012 - 03:08 AM, said:

Somehow I guess I was never thought for a second that giant military robots would be cheap to maintain. A lot of the equipment that is so expensive to maintain is that way for reason. XL engines give you extra tonnage to use. The high cost of repairs was part of that trade off. Now why would artemis missles be more expensive. Maybe because they are more effective. They would be expected to cost more. You have a choice not to use them and make more c-bills. But it would be more challenging on the battlefield.

There is also that glaring point that ppl don't want to admit. If you are having fun with the particular mech setup that is more expensive too maintain then maybe it doesn't matter if your stacking c-bills that day. Maybe instead of worrying about how many c-bills they can stack they could focus on what was it you said... "challenges from your opponents" in a mech they are having fun in.

Xl engines also make you die very easily from side torso exploding.

balance comes from the items down sides and the battle IN GAME.

not the balance sheet outside it.

Artemis, increased tonnage and crit slots.

Edited by Sifright, 18 December 2012 - 03:11 AM.

[Lorcan Lladd]

So we just progressed from 75% free RnR to 100%.
Such a radical change.

[JohnnyC]

PANZERBUNNY, on 18 December 2012 - 02:40 AM, said:

This sounds like bleeding heart liberal care bear, "I can only play 30 minutes a day and want to be on the same level as everyone else" talk.

Stay classy...

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

MustrumRidcully, on 18 December 2012 - 02:44 AM, said:

Well, it seems now that Vassago has gotten some results (not that it was him, it was probably more lots of players pointing out the flaws and the statistics shown that things were not working out as they hoped), it's time for some new hyperbole and whining? Awesome.

I am more in favor of a real heat system. You know, with heat penalties and not just a "out of heat ammo" system.
With stock mechs suited for that heat system, or rather the heat system suited for the stock mech. Trials being fun mechs to play, even if not perfectly optimized or perfectly tuned to my favorite play style. Weapons being balanced. Sunshine and Rainbows, Cats & Dogs living together, Vassago and Jade making out and confessing their manlove to each other.

Maybe I am asking too much.

Believe me, I want a full out heat system, and it's been "in the works" for some time... it's always been intended to happen.
Way PGI's been handling things however...

As for me and Vass making out... maybe... maybe. LOL

[Snib]

PANZERBUNNY, on 18 December 2012 - 02:36 AM, said:

Many of us would like having to replace destroyed weapons, but that is something a large amount of people would find tiresome.

R&R gave people an auto or manual option, but apparently even THAT is too much for people who don't want to experience that part of the mech SIM.

I hate you all.

Oh I'd love the full sim option, or how it was in previous titles. I just don't like the in-between of the current economy - when I first got into CBT the first thing I told my friends was that this is a game built for bots.


However, I understand that PGI is not aiming for a sim but for the World of Tanks concept that they've used as a template for the game. Hit launch, instantly get a quick fight, done. Like it or not, it's what brings players in. Instant gratification and all that, it's what the F2P model is all about after all.

[PurpleNinja]

Asmosis, on 18 December 2012 - 01:17 AM, said:

they removed a system that was obviously not working as intended and detremental to play in its current format (making some builds $$ exclusive etc).

Much like the removal of collisions, remember this is a beta, we're testing stuff. It isnt the first time the economy has had a radical revamp to test stuff either, and nowhere does it say its permanently removed.

I'd expect a rebalanced R&R system to come back with contracts (CW), as it probably would have needed to be overhauled anyway at that point (along with all the current match rewards).

tdlr; taking out something broken to add back later on (like collisions).

(highlighted the important bit incase you missed it)

Is this really beta?

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Sifright, on 18 December 2012 - 03:11 AM, said:

Xl engines also make you die very easily from side torso exploding.

balance comes from the items down sides and the battle IN GAME.

not the balance sheet outside it.

Artemis, increased tonnage and crit slots.

Two sides of the coin.

I latched onto this game for "the experience of being a mechwarrior in 3049-3050" To experience the hardships and the trials and tribulations, to fight for a merc unit or house unit. The fact that economy was a balancing factor. You either kick butt and make money, or flounder and barely stay afloat, Tis life in the inner sphere.

Yet devlopment has strayed far from the beaten path... I fear we may end up in a bog and sinking soon enough.

The walk to Mordor is easier than making this damn game it seems.

[HurlockHolmes]

Remarius, on 18 December 2012 - 02:35 AM, said:

I think you meant to say.... and everyone will switch to Assaults...

Atleast when I pump my srms into a assault the game doesn't arbitrarily decide that my missles were made out of marshmallows that explode into orange soda.

Because that's what happens everytime I hit a light with them.

[Sifright]

Jade Kitsune, on 18 December 2012 - 03:20 AM, said:

Two sides of the coin.

I latched onto this game for "the experience of being a mechwarrior in 3049-3050" To experience the hardships and the trials and tribulations, to fight for a merc unit or house unit. The fact that economy was a balancing factor. You either kick butt and make money, or flounder and barely stay afloat, Tis life in the inner sphere.

Yet devlopment has strayed far from the beaten path... I fear we may end up in a bog and sinking soon enough.

The walk to Mordor is easier than making this damn game it seems.

You say this but as a person that wins most of his games and can afford to run his winning mech build I'd like my enemies to not be in easy mode crap.

[Spitz]

Sifright, on 18 December 2012 - 03:11 AM, said:

Xl engines also make you die very easily from side torso exploding.

balance comes from the items down sides and the battle IN GAME.

not the balance sheet outside it.

Artemis, increased tonnage and crit slots.

No balance involves all aspects of a game. Those balances you mentioned are PART of the balance. Your point means if balance sheet outside doesn't create part of the balance then we wouldn't care about tonnage, hard points or heat. Economy of the game is important to the game.

[KinLuu]

PANZERBUNNY, on 18 December 2012 - 02:40 AM, said:

This sounds like bleeding heart liberal care bear, "I can only play 30 minutes a day and want to be on the same level as everyone else" talk.

You could not be more wrong.

A casual gamer does not care about competitiveness, as per definition, a casual is never a competitive gamer.
Real competitive games do either not have economies outside the actual game at all, (e.g.: CS, SC) or economies with so little impact, that it does not matter for competitive gameing (e.g. LoL).

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Sifright, on 18 December 2012 - 03:27 AM, said:

You say this but as a person that wins most of his games and can afford to run his winning mech build I'd like my enemies to not be in easy mode crap.

Not everyone in the universe has the cash to run the "top tier" gear... hell most mercernary mechwarriors are piloting barely held together lights and mediums, let alone heavy's and assaults.

I'm glad you can afford to run your winning mech build. That's good, that means you're a "great" pilot. congrats.

Now everyone can run whatever... cool, this will make the game EPIC right? we'll see what we're seeing in the 8 man premades... Cicada's and D-DC's are the reigning mechs, commando's maybe, with cataphracts bringing up the rear... 4 mechs out of the entirety of the roster are popular. EVERYTHING MUST RUN ECM, ENDO, and DHS...

What do you guy's think this will do? Make everything suddenly more viable? No, that's not what happens, it boils down to everyone using the same things because it's "what works" and creativity goes out the window.

Edit: I misread your post... yes I generally have the money to run things the way I want to, you're correct. but I'm not blind to the "new player" experience either, I didn't buy into founders until the "Last" day it was offered. So don't think I don't understand the struggles to run a good mech... on that note, you can still be a "Good" mech without all the special toys.

Edited by Jade Kitsune, 18 December 2012 - 03:35 AM.

[Mazgazine1]

Wow I just realized I can use my atlas WITH ENDO STEEL!! WOOHOO!!!

It wont cost 120K when I die! WOOHOOO!!

So yeah the RNR system doesn't work WHEN YOU HAVE TO ACTIVELY REFUND 75% FOR FREE ANYWAYS!!

The rest of the stuff can get as hardcore as possible, now I have an incentive to buy artemis and other stuff.

[Spitz]

Lorcan Lladd, on 18 December 2012 - 03:15 AM, said:

So we just progressed from 75% free RnR to 100%.
Such a radical change.

People have really been lighting up the forums with stuff that is the exception not the rule. Not everybody is risking running out of ammo to get the 75% rearm. And certainly not going out without armor as much as people complain. We are not progressing from 75 to100.. We are going from paying to repair stuff to pretending there is no cost in running a war. Big difference.

[Joseph Mallan]

Asmosis, on 18 December 2012 - 01:17 AM, said:

they removed a system that was obviously not working as intended and detremental to play in its current format (making some builds $$ exclusive etc).

Much like the removal of collisions, remember this is a beta, we're testing stuff. It isnt the first time the economy has had a radical revamp to test stuff either, and nowhere does it say its permanently removed.

I'd expect a rebalanced R&R system to come back with contracts (CW), as it probably would have needed to be overhauled anyway at that point (along with all the current match rewards).

tdlr; taking out something broken to add back later on (like collisions).

(highlighted the important bit incase you missed it)

I don't see how it was not working as intended as they stopped using it right after the depression of Sept '12. WAR IS EXPENSIVE. Having no check will not make teh game better, just easier. I never played Battletech cause it was easy. As a Unit commander some of the toughest decissions to make is do I repair the Cataphract, HunchBack & partly fix the Jenner or just The Atlas??? Being responsable for whether I am ready for the next mission is part of MechWarrior. The actual game (remember the Clans?) WIll be a full scale war vs a Superior advesary. It will be expensive, It will be brutal, and because of that challenge is will be fun. Casual Players need Solaris (aka the Games world). Let that world have respawn, and death match, power up pellets and Bonsai Bubbles. Solaris is for the faint of heart, the casual players. The Clans are for the players who can acccept they are not going to win everytime... or for that mater most the time. It is for those of us who want to actually play the Clan Invasion as intended. Players who want to fight an enemy that rolled the best the IS had to offer for two years. That is the game I signed up for.

SO Meta game will hopefully seperated the Wheat from the Chaff by giving us The Game World for Casual players and the Clan Invasions who want to simulate the Universe as it was written.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 18 December 2012 - 03:35 AM.

[MadcatX]

Joseph Mallan, on 18 December 2012 - 03:34 AM, said:

SO Meta game will hopefully seperated the Wheat from the Chaff by giving us The Game World for Casual players and the Clan Invasions who want to simulate the Universe as it was written.

If that is the case, then the clans are going to win.

[Yawarakai Te]

I started playing at the start of OB. I have managed to do all right in the current economy and I am confident I will do at least as well in the new one. In terms of suspension of disbelief (immersion) The one thing I found most difficult to believe in my first few games was the ridiculously low "contract" reward. What person in their right mind would believe I would risk my life and a 5 to 15 million dollar machine for the chance of a 100k reward. The "economy" was the part of the game that most broke immersion for me unless mechwarriors are supposed to be irretrievably stupid.