84 replies to this topic

[KuruptU4Fun]

Since it has been adjusted that countering ECM in a croup means that the countering ECM will pick the closest mech instead of a random one. Seems like a fair deal to me.

While I understand TAG uses a energy slot and has to be triggered to use it. Is it plausible that making TAG a more effective counter to ECM would be for it to be made into a module. It then always puts the laser (which is on all the time) at the point of convergence and allows any mech to use it. The downside would be that it maintains a 3-4% heat level the entire time.

While I believe that limiting the amount of mechs that can carry ECM is in itself limiting it's being OP. I'm not looking to argue that point in this thread please.

Edited by KuruptU4Fun, 18 December 2012 - 09:49 PM.

[p00k]

honestly i think they went the wrong way with this one. while it does make ecm a bit less dominant, it still encourages teams to stack as many ecm as possible (perhaps even more so), rather than just take however many are needed to shield their team.

[Kaijin]

For what it does, ECM should take up 2 energy slots. Would work with the Raven 3L and Cicada 3m. Atlas would have to be switched (I'd suggest the K), and Commando would have to be switched to the 1B or 1D (recommend the 1B). In fact, while I'm at it, lets have all the ECM mechs be switched to those with the least missile hardpoints that have 2 energy hardpoints in one location. So the take it off the Raven 3L and stick it on the 2X.

[Pykors]

I think I'd be happy if TAG were just changed to not use a hardpoint. That would put it on an equal footing with the equipment it is supposed to counter. Plus it would help the A1 and D-DC fill the direct-fire LRM role.

[verybad]

I like the idea of it not being a hardpoint. It's not a high power laser, just a marker and a radio.

[Kaziganthi]

My 1st match today since the patch and I went out in my COM-D. I found something weird happening and cant find anything in the patch forums relating to it, so I'll add it here and see what response I get.


When targeting a non-ecm guarded mech my weapons work fine. 1 med laser assigned to group 1 (left mouse button), 3 Streaks on group 2 (right mouse button). However, when targeting an ecm equipped or guarded mech, as usual streaks wont lock until I switch to counter, but I'm also finding my laser wont fire. It will fire when I'm out of the ecm bubble. I have replicated this a few times. In counter mode, streaks will lock and fire, but laser wont fire from mouse button, I have to hit the assigned key on my keyboard.

Anyone else having this issue?

[Vassago Rain]

ECM is fine like this.

TAG needs to be a toggle. Most people who use it have a macro to do this for them already.

[Mack1]

ECM is ruining this game, simple as that. The only people happy with it are 8 man drops as it's an iwin button for them.

How can pressing a button be allowed to cripple every lock on weapon on the entire battlefield? Even a complete ******** moron could see that this was going to be a gamebreaker. And ever since it showed it's ugly face we have seen a massive change in tactics.

People once used Artillery (LRM boats) to guard bases and flanks, the enemy had to snipe them out or sneak lights around to kill them. The other team were doing a similar thing, the battles lasted 10 - 15 mins and were pure strategy.

Now they just press the iwin button, huddle up and begin the slow march to the enemy base. The other team do the same if they have ECM (if they don't have ECM they may as well power down and sing folk songs) Both teams heading for their enemys bases, sometimes they meet and it's a game of Hawken sometimes they don't meet and it's a win without even firing a shot.

ECM made this game very easy for everyone except Artillery which does not even turn up to fight now. The devs tried to fix the base rushing by changing the economy, this just made people more angry than they were before.

I like many other MWO players can see the writing on the wall for this game and it's still in beta, what a mess. They guys I played with last night had not even logged on for 5 days, my playing time is also well down on what it was, it's just so boring now for a PUG player, half the weapons are not even usable.

[Horned Bull]

Mack1, on 20 December 2012 - 01:53 AM, said:

[color=#959595]People once used Artillery (LRM boats) to guard bases and flanks, the enemy had to snipe them out or sneak lights around to kill them. The other team were doing a similar thing, the battles lasted 10 - 15 mins and were pure strategy.[/color]

Sadly people are still using lrms as press one button to win. I really hope they will get hurt by ECM.

[Smeghead87]

The simple fact remains that you cannot change the ECM to use energy hardpoints, or the TAG to be a module without changing the default stock variants of the mechs in the game. If the TAG was a module, it wouldn't weigh anything and the Raven 3L would be 34 tons in stock config. If you made the ECM use energy hardpoints, the Raven 3L would either be 2 med lasers or 1 med laser and 1 TAG short in it's stock config or would need 2 energy hardpoints added.

Since PGI are not keen to change the stock variants from the TT counterparts, other ways need to be found to balance them.

Edit: making the TAG a piece of equipment that still uses tons and criticals but not energy hardpoints might be a step in the right direction but you'd also have to limit it to be only put in certain places, (like the c.a.s.e. can only be placed in side torsos) otherwise people would be firing it out of their leg.

Edited by Smeghead87, 20 December 2012 - 02:34 AM.

[Kahoumono]

Not much has changed with the patch, ECM still decides the games. TAG only counters ECM if your teammates fire on the TAG target which doesn't really happen unless you are dropping as a group. If the ECM is to stay as it is and have all different types (interfere/active jamming) in one unit like it is now it should should only jam limited targets or only its target and not an entire team while maintaining its senor cloaking throughout. That way they can still punish the streak cats or missle boats while also filling the harrasser role.

On a side note, if they were looking at the stats it'll probably show less people are using ECM after the patch. That probably has more to do with people trying to level up their stalkers more than anything. So I don't expect them to do anything about it.

[Noth]

Kaijin, on 18 December 2012 - 10:49 PM, said:

For what it does, ECM should take up 2 energy slots. Would work with the Raven 3L and Cicada 3m. Atlas would have to be switched (I'd suggest the K), and Commando would have to be switched to the 1B or 1D (recommend the 1B). In fact, while I'm at it, lets have all the ECM mechs be switched to those with the least missile hardpoints that have 2 energy hardpoints in one location. So the take it off the Raven 3L and stick it on the 2X.

Actually for what it does, it should take up space of the ECM+null signature system and generate heat and disallow certain higher electronics. It is after all ECM+Null signature in this implementation.

[King Arthur IV]

simple way to buff tag, make the damn thing toggle!!!

[Glythe]

Vassago Rain, on 20 December 2012 - 12:34 AM, said:

ECM is fine like this.

TAG needs to be a toggle. Most people who use it have a macro to do this for them already.

ECM is NOT fine as is....

TAG absolutely must be a toggle AND needs to allow you to target the mech you paint no matter what.

[Tirick Fire]

I don't even see how TAG is working. I've held TAG on ECM sheilded targets for 20-30 sec, and still can't target them; or sometimes I can get the red target box, but not get target locks with LRM or SSRM's. I have BAP equipped as well, seems like ECM really needs a counter of some kind. From a balancing perspective, I would like to see BAP and/or TAG fully counter ECM.

[Mr Mantis]

once lag shield is reduced tag will be easy to use against light mechs, that is the only time i find it hard to get a lock.

[TopDawg]

What if ECM on Counter mode were to cancel 2-3 enemy ECMs instead of just one? This would seem to deter/discourage the ECM arms race.

[Noth]

TopDawg, on 20 December 2012 - 04:38 AM, said:

What if ECM on Counter mode were to cancel 2-3 enemy ECMs instead of just one? This would seem to deter/discourage the ECM arms race.

Doesn't actually fix the issue that the ECM is two systems in one. One of the systems it has has quite the cost in crit spaces (7-14 depending on version) and penalties (generates heat disallows the mech to equip certain higher tech systems), yet it has none of those and expands the null signature to the mechs around it making it straight up better than the actual null signature system itself.

[TopDawg]

Hrm, yeah I'm not very familiar with TT. I personally would be fine with the group cloak going away, but other things would have to then be balanced. It seems ECM was kind of their catch-all answer to LRMs and SSRMs; not to mention TAG would have to be reduced back to 450m as well.

Perhaps map size also has to do with some of the reason for the supremacy of the LRM; Streaks would definitely have to be looked at again too though. It can be pretty tricky to balance how all of these systems interact with each other in a more complex, real time environment.

I'm still not convinced that just having it counter 2-3 (or even all others in range, which may be a bit extreme, but maybe not) would go a long ways to helping keep things in line with one another. I personally prefer a game with strong options on all sides, rather than everything being closer to the middle with no real stand out items.

[Codejack]

TAG is fine.

ECM needs to be removed from the game and reintroduced later as a strict implementation of TT rules: It can counter Artemis, C3 (information sharing in MWO), NARC, and BAP, but only within its 180m range, and it does NOTHING ELSE. It should not affect lock-ons, detection range or missile guidance (other than Artemis).