1017 replies to this topic

[JustPyro]

I like ECM. It needs a few small nerfs, but nothing major. Ravens boating Steams? They get 2. And one comes out of a single launcher. If NARC gets a buff, they have 1 streak. Not a boat.

With ECM, I still see plenty of LRMs, but not teams full of them. I see Catapults with a mix of Streaks and SRMs. It's good to see non-boats. LRM platforms with some defensive weapons on them is a good thing. What pilot would only load up on LRMs and no weapons otherwise? Or streaks?

Minor tweaks. The basic balance is there.

[bryce]

I wonder what the analytics show for lights running ecms vs any other light. It has to be grossly imbalanced.

[Hekalite]

Angelicon, on 19 December 2012 - 09:20 AM, said:

Narc needs to cut through ECM and provide a big bright target for long range friendlies, period. ECM needs: - to take up at least one more Crit slot - to take up 2-3 more tons of weight - to produce heat at the rate of one continuously fired Medium Laser - have an On/Off switch (this relates to the previous point)

+1 to these suggestions

[Tolkien]

Bump:

Here's another suggestion for the devs. As long as they stubbornly refuse to nerf ECM they get to use only mechs that 'counter' ECM.

No lasers, just LRMs, tag and dumbfire - Watch how fast it gets fixed.

[Atak Snajpera]

My solution to solve ECM issue

Instead of one universal ECM available only for few mechs They should create TWO ECMs available for ALL mechs!

1) ECM BASIC (only counter mode) [ 2 tons / 2 slots ]
2) ECM ADVANCED (switchable counter / distrupt mode) [ 4 tons / 4 slots ]

Edited by Atak Snajpera, 25 December 2012 - 07:01 AM.

[Krondor]

bryce, on 24 December 2012 - 09:44 PM, said:

I wonder what the analytics show for lights running ecms vs any other light. It has to be grossly imbalanced.

The last two weeks I've seen the occaisonal Commando and exactly ONE Jenner. The rest all Raven 3Ls.

[Old Fart]

The ECM problem is you should be able to lock up if you can hold on target . Standard radar should work at 200m , the counter is the BAP should be able to see them out to 500 m. right now a ecm mech can do a end run arould the whole team with out coming up on radar. The speed of the light mech protects it . Not being able to lock up cancels out two weapon systems. If you do this the ams system need to be able to have a upgrade to handle the missel boot . One other thing shorten the area that ECM covers to 80 m. One other thing the mech should have the abilty to turn off the radar on all mech.

[Black Ivan]

Take out the nullpoint ability so that ECM only jams what it should under the CBT rules.

[Kemosobe]

Well, I see they have still yet to fix ECMs or even remove them while they look into it. My two LRM15 Catapult is my favorite mech. I am a LRM boat (with lasers just in case) and there is now no point to playing it. Nothing counters ECM, yet ECM counters everything (unless they did do something that I missed. But judging from the most recent posts, I am going to think no). How is this a fair mechanic?

Tolkien, on 25 December 2012 - 06:16 AM, said:

Bump:

Here's another suggestion for the devs. As long as they stubbornly refuse to nerf ECM they get to use only mechs that 'counter' ECM.

No lasers, just LRMs, tag and dumbfire - Watch how fast it gets fixed.

HAHAHAHA, it would be fixed within hours, if not minutes.

Edited by Kemosobe, 25 December 2012 - 10:25 AM.

[ICEFANG13]

The suggestion of, "dumb fire LRMs" by PGI kinda makes me think they don't really play the game.

[CatHerder]

Atak Snajpera, on 25 December 2012 - 06:46 AM, said:

My solution to solve ECM issue

Instead of one universal ECM available only for few mechs They should create TWO ECMs available for ALL mechs!

1) ECM BASIC (only counter mode) [ 2 tons / 2 slots ]
2) ECM ADVANCED (switchable counter / distrupt mode) [ 4 tons / 4 slots ]

1) this is what Guardian ECM is on TT
2) this is what Angel ECM is on TT (but as I recall, it needs Guardian to also be installed in order to work, so you're actually "paying" 6/6 for it)

[CatHerder]

The single biggest issue with ECM has to do with 3 factors, actually:

1) The disrupt bubble out to 180m which PGI completely made up
2) The lag shield protecting light mechs due to bad netcode (this is likely not fixable in the short term, though, due to the nature and difficulty of the problem at hand)
3) The lag in some weapons firing (i.e. SRM's, for instance).

If you combine those 3 factors, then it's REALLY hard to fight off one or more ECM light mechs with anything other than lasers (unless you have ECM yourself and aren't overpowered in ECM count, and can use Streaks/LRM). This isn't intended - the truth is that if the netcode were good, one could tear open a light mech in seconds from an assault mech (if one has the skill to do it).

However, given that the game code has those deficiencies, it's then unreasonable to expect direct-fire to be an acceptable counter to an ECM mech running around at 150KPH. This includes TAG since it's a direct-fire weapon (and as someone was mentioning, is also vulnerable to interruption of LOS, which causes lock break).

Therefore, the only true counter to ECM is another ECM unit. However, now we come to the "ECM +1" rule: in order to have balance, your team must have at least as many ECM units as opfor. +1 ECM means superiority. PERIOD.

The combination of the above are why ECM breaks balance. The counters would be acceptable in an ideal world because if the netcode were good enough, then you'd be able to make use of them and lights with ECM wouldn't be as aggressive or brazen as they are now.

However, this is not the case. And if you ask me, it's easier to fix ECM (i.e. remove the disrupt bubble) until the netcode reaches a point where it no longer contributes to ECM's capabilities.

But then again, I'm not PGI and as someone said - they may be making way too much money with people buying MC to obtain ECM-capable chassis to keep up with the arms race, to have any motivation to do anything about this.

The scariest part is that with all the uproar on the topic, the only statement I've read coming from them on the subject is essentially "it's working as intended, and won't be touched" - and this was in the early days when the first rants were coming out. In those days, there were few (if any!) reasoned opinions about ECM's impact and imbalance. So the scary part is: now that there is so much reasoned discussion, why are they so silent on the topic?

[Eddrick]

I personaly, could care less if ECM is buffed or nerfed. The ECM we had before and what we have now, had no real noticable effect on me. Mostly because, I don't use missles and I don't need a lock or radar. Most of the effects of what ECM was and is now have no effect on skills gained from First Person Shooter games.

I feel, if anything should be done to ECM is: Make it do what Electronic Countermeasures do. No more, no less.

Edited by Eddrick, 25 December 2012 - 02:11 PM.

[DeaconW]

Eddrick, on 25 December 2012 - 02:10 PM, said:

Most of the effects of what ECM was and is now have no effect on skills gained from First Person Shooter games.

This is one of the best single sentence descriptions of why ECM in it's current form is screwing up this game. I, and many others, do not desire to play MechQuake....I want to play a Mechwarrior/BT game.

[Azru]

CatHerder, on 25 December 2012 - 02:08 PM, said:

The single biggest issue with ECM has to do with 3 factors, actually:

1) The disrupt bubble out to 180m which PGI completely made up
2) The lag shield protecting light mechs due to bad netcode (this is likely not fixable in the short term, though, due to the nature and difficulty of the problem at hand)
3) The lag in some weapons firing (i.e. SRM's, for instance).

If you combine those 3 factors, then it's REALLY hard to fight off one or more ECM light mechs with anything other than lasers (unless you have ECM yourself and aren't overpowered in ECM count, and can use Streaks/LRM). This isn't intended - the truth is that if the netcode were good, one could tear open a light mech in seconds from an assault mech (if one has the skill to do it).

However, given that the game code has those deficiencies, it's then unreasonable to expect direct-fire to be an acceptable counter to an ECM mech running around at 150KPH. This includes TAG since it's a direct-fire weapon (and as someone was mentioning, is also vulnerable to interruption of LOS, which causes lock break).

Therefore, the only true counter to ECM is another ECM unit. However, now we come to the "ECM +1" rule: in order to have balance, your team must have at least as many ECM units as opfor. +1 ECM means superiority. PERIOD.

The combination of the above are why ECM breaks balance. The counters would be acceptable in an ideal world because if the netcode were good enough, then you'd be able to make use of them and lights with ECM wouldn't be as aggressive or brazen as they are now.

However, this is not the case. And if you ask me, it's easier to fix ECM (i.e. remove the disrupt bubble) until the netcode reaches a point where it no longer contributes to ECM's capabilities.

But then again, I'm not PGI and as someone said - they may be making way too much money with people buying MC to obtain ECM-capable chassis to keep up with the arms race, to have any motivation to do anything about this.

The scariest part is that with all the uproar on the topic, the only statement I've read coming from them on the subject is essentially "it's working as intended, and won't be touched" - and this was in the early days when the first rants were coming out. In those days, there were few (if any!) reasoned opinions about ECM's impact and imbalance. So the scary part is: now that there is so much reasoned discussion, why are they so silent on the topic?

"The Inner Sphere Guardian ECM weighs 1.5 tons and takes up 2 critical spaces. It has an operational range of six hexes"

http://www.sarna.net...rdian_ECM_Suite

a hex should be 30m so that is where the 180m is getting pulled from. As for ECM countering ECM that is from Tatical Operations but there is another way to counter ECM in the book which isn't included currently in MW:O

Edit: Now, I'm not defending ECM which I believe to be is more akin to Angel ECM in it's current form but most of the things about ECM is pulled from TT just using some advanced rules from Tatical Operations. Heck, ECM should have 4 modes from the looks of it. Cloak for the mech using it, Active probe, ECCM, or ghost targets.

Edited by Azru, 25 December 2012 - 05:18 PM.

[Pilotasso]

You can break ECM easely and blitz the other team with TAG. It only takes a widespread use (yeah you need to get around the idea of sacrificing a laser slot for it) to make it alot less effective.

[ICEFANG13]

Obviously you've never tired to do that before, because all the ECM mechs will laugh at you as you run over pewing them with a TAG, that doesn't do anything if you fire it like that.

[Marcus Tanner]

For my 1000th game, I got the 8-bit bug.

Between ECM and 30 tubes of artemis-LRMs, I got 2 kills that game. Top of the scoreboard.

ECM needs a kick to the jibblies, and LRMs need to do less damage (as I'm sure streaks do as well, but I've personally had less success with them).

[bryce]

Just ran an 8 man against 8 ecm scouts. That was about as fun as cancer. PGI needs to address this instead of playing oblivious to the OP.

[Thorn Blackwell]

NARC should counter ECM for the mech it's on ... and it should last for the duration of battle. Right now it's useless.