82 replies to this topic

[Skylarr]

HellJumper, on 21 May 2012 - 11:08 PM, said:

First i dont mind any info about battletech universe as i dont know much about it...

Second a question...where did the clanners came from???

First go to sarna.net Battletechwiki and explore. you spend hours on hours there researching info. Most of the info there is set in the 3060 area but, with research you can find the info you need.

second, were did the clans come from?

Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky (December 16, 2700 – June 11, 2801, aged 100 years) was the foremost General of the Star League who later liberated Terra from the rule of the usurper Stefan Amaris. Later, after the collapse of the Star League he lead the vast majority of the survivors of the Star League Defense Force (SLDF) on an Exodus into the Deep Periphery.

On the 23rd of January 2777, Operation Liberation, the final phase of Operation Terran Hegemony began, and SLDF soldiers coming from eight worlds advanced towards Terra. On the September of 2779 the SLDF finally re-captured Humanity's homeplanet after a costly battle with over 100 million total dead. After discovering the fate of Richard Cameron and his family, Kerensky ordered the execution of Stefan Amaris and also of the usurpers' family.

A year later, on the 10th of October 2780, the Council Lords gathered and stripped Kerensky of his title of Protector. Ten months later, the Lords had not chosen a new First Lord, each claiming the title and position for him or herself, and the Council was dissolved by the Lords on the 12 of August 2781.

Kerensky refused a proposition by General Aaron DeChavilier to overthrow the House Lords. The reasons for his refusal are unknown.

In 2784, after months of deliberation and reading the signs of a imminent war, Aleksandr gathered all of the surviving SLDF and offered them the choice to depart the Inner Sphere in a self-imposed exile. 80% of the remaining SLDF choose to follow him.

In Operation Exodus six million men, women, and children followed General Aleksandr Kerensky into the Deep Periphery towards an unknown destination and future. This act effectively completed the collapse of the dying Star League. It was his dream that he and his followers, or most likely their children, would eventually return to rescue a devastated Inner Sphere and reunite it under a new Star League.


After months of deliberation, Aleksandr convened most of the Star League forces still loyal to him (over 80%) and departed the Inner Sphere. After years of traveling, the massive flotilla of Star League refugees came upon five marginally habitable worlds, the so-called Pentagon Worlds (due to their near-pentametric relation to each other). There Kerensky's followers tried to forge life as they knew it once again, and for a time it seemed the Star League would still exist, far away from Terra, although this was not to be. Within a year, cracks were beginning to form along faction lines and soon the Pentagon Worlds were at war: an eerie parallel to the carnage unfolding concurrently in the Inner Sphere, a conflict now known as the First Succession War. At this, Kerensky prepared to gather the precious few troops still loyal to him, when he suffered a massive heart attack and as his dying wish, Kerensky left the reigns of the Exile Star League in the hands of his son, Nicholas. Kerensky's son took 800 of his best warriors and 600 civilian families away to a planet known as Strana Mechty ("land of dreams" in Russian) where he forged a new order. This order was known as the Clans. Those who possessed exceptional military skill became the breeding stock of what would become a hereditary ruling class. They embodied the pinnacle of combat prowess, and were put through a variety of competitive and selective processes with each generation to produce virtual super-soldiers. They were charged to protect the weak and powerless, but primarily to take back the Pentagon Worlds and, some day, the Inner Sphere where they, the Clans, would reinstate the glorious Star League. The second exodus was finished on 11. June 2802. On this day five years later Nicholas announced the foundation of the Clans.

In the beginning there were twenty clans, each with forty warriors. Over time, three clans were Absorbed (Clans Widowmaker, Mongoose, Burrock), two were Annihilated (Clans Wolverine and Smoke Jaguar), one was Abjured (Clan Nova Cat), another was split in two (Clan Wolf), and two eventually merged with Inner Sphere nations (Clans Ghost Bear and Snow Raven, respectively). Today, the Clans are almost wholly unrecognizable, compared to their forebears.

Though Clan history speaks of twenty Clans and the Eight Hundred Bloodnamed, Precentor Martial Anastasius Focht encountered information on board the Wolf Clan flag vessel, Dire Wolf that lead him to suspect the number may have been as low as six hundred or greater than eight hundred. It is possible that the practices of Reaving and the ilKhan's right to primogeniture were later attempts to retcon this information. It is also likely that the Annihilation of Clan Wolverine and Absorption of Clans Widowmaker and Mongoose altered the Bloodcount.

In reality, far more warriors came together with Nicholas Kerensky but only 800 of them passed the preliminary version of the Trial of Position.


The Clan Homeworlds were the worlds ultimately settled by the Clans, far beyond the Inner Sphere. They include the original worlds settled by Aleksandr Kerensky and the Star League Defense Force at the end of Operation Exodus, and the many worlds later settled by the Clans in the following years.

The Clans home world are Coreward of the Inner Sphere. When looking at the map of the Inner Sphere it is in the "North" direction.

[Bolo Warden]

oh boy, history lessons.

also, initially, the population of the inner sphere thought the clanners were aliens based upon their aggressive nature and unstoppable progress of conquering the IS. well to be fair, comstar was helping them by identify defending assets on targeted planets. when comstar suggested that the clanners strike further to the east of their invasion corridor towards luthien that the main goal of the clan invasion became known.

[Gigaton]

Kay Wolf, on 22 May 2012 - 06:37 AM, said:

I don't think it will be a matter of ignoring the lore, so much as it's minutiae, unnecessary, and it won't have an effect on the game.

Well, I guess that since we aren't (at least not yet) creating characters, you can just choose Davion as your house if you want to RP a Lyran mechwarrior "on loan" in (former) FedSun unit or one serving in former Lyran unit posted in FedSun territory.

There are also the formations that were built ground up from personell of both militaries (the FedCom RCTs), which could be pretty tircky to model without system provided by PGI.

Kay Wolf, on 22 May 2012 - 06:37 AM, said:

I'm a mercenary with Davion roots; does this mean I'm evil, as well? Or, were you just trying to be smart?

If you end up fighting against the FedSuns as a mercenary, I'm sure some author will eventually depict you as degenerate who fell from the grace of the Best House.

Edited by Gigaton, 22 May 2012 - 07:45 AM.

[Threat Doc]

Gigaton, on 22 May 2012 - 07:19 AM, said:

Well, I guess that since we aren't (at least not yet) creating characters, you can just choose Davion as your house if you want to RP a Lyran mechwarrior "on loan" in (former) FedSun unit.

That's probably not the best idea, especially if you intend to get into a merc unit; remember how Loyalty Points are going to be said to work. If you're a Steiner, and want to play a Steiner, you should probably sign up as one and, for anyone wishing to fight against the Clans, and are FedCom nominally, it might be best to sign up with Steiner, anyway, or you're not going to see that initial action.

Quote

If you end up fighting against the FedSuns as a mercenary, I'm sure some author will eventually depict you as degenerate who fell from the grace of the Best House.

You have a point, there. Let them think what they want. Most of AUs contracts have been through the Federated Suns and, eventually, through the unofficial Federated Commonwealth, but I will fight for the highest bidder, as long as they're not seen by AU as dishonorable degenerates themselves, hehe.

[Thorn Hallis]

nub nub, on 22 May 2012 - 05:12 AM, said:

Laio?

[Gigaton]

Thorn Hallis, on 22 May 2012 - 07:55 AM, said:

Laio?

There's a 1000 planet Lyran Com. on the list too.

[Skylarr]

That Lyran Com. Is really Federated Commonwealth. At this point in time both Lyran Commonwealth and Federated Suns appear on the map as one nation. In 8 years they will split.

Edited by Skylarr, 22 May 2012 - 08:16 AM.

[guardian wolf]

Adridos, on 22 May 2012 - 12:10 AM, said:

That's too much to explain but basically:

We had golden age (Star League).
Houses didn't want to be ruled (killed the ruler).
Kerensky saw there's nothing more than war coming here, so he took his force with him and said he'll return when time's right.
We nuked the hell out of each other in 2 massive wars.
Then we realised that by doing so, we lost all of our production and are now stuck with stone age tech (no nuke's allowed).
Two more wars which helped us gain a bit of tech.
Clans became a special society (Kerensky's already dead) and now they realised it's the time Kerensky's spoken of.
They invaded with the technology from the golden age they further improved.
They destroyed almost the whole FRR and Com Star helped them, but then realised they're coming for Earth (them).
With that in mind, they unveiled their massive army of golden age tech noone knew of and challenged Clans for their ritual combat.
The means were simple: If Clans win, they can go to Earth and rule there, if Com Star wins, Clans can't go further for 15 years (giving time for us to prepeare). The Com Star kicked their vatborn @$$€$.

That's as far as you need to know.

Good, mhmm, yep, WOAH..... ComStar did not kick our *****!!! Rather, Clan Wolf kicked the living sh!t out of Com Star, but other then that, correct.

[Skylarr]

guardian wolf, on 22 May 2012 - 08:30 AM, said:

Good, mhmm, yep, WOAH..... ComStar did not kick our *****!!! Rather, Clan Wolf kicked the living sh!t out of Com Star, but other then that, correct.

Clan Wolf, who had the easiest objectives, succeeded in taking both. It only sustained 20% casualties. Many feel that even if they had the 2 hardest objectives they would still have then them. I think they would have a draw like Clan Jade Falcon.

[guardian wolf]

Skylarr, on 22 May 2012 - 08:39 AM, said:

Clan Wolf, who had the easiest objectives, succeeded in taking both. It only sustained 20% casualties. Many feel that even if they had the 2 hardest objectives they would still have then them. I think they would have a draw like Clan Jade Falcon.

Then please explain to me WHY did the current precentor martial when speaking to Ulric after the battle, admit that if the rest of the Clans had fought like Wolf, that ComStar would have lost.

[Thorn Hallis]

guardian wolf, on 22 May 2012 - 08:53 AM, said:

Then please explain to me WHY did the current precentor martial when speaking to Ulric after the battle, admit that if the rest of the Clans had fought like Wolf, that ComStar would have lost.

Uhm...did he say that? I remember him saying that he thought Comstar would have lost if Ulric would have guided all of the Clans...though I might be wrong (no book at hand).

That aside, I think its rather hard to define if Clan Wolf's target cities were more easy then the others.

Edited by Thorn Hallis, 22 May 2012 - 09:14 AM.

[Skylarr]

guardian wolf, on 22 May 2012 - 08:53 AM, said:

Then please explain to me WHY did the current precentor martial when speaking to Ulric after the battle, admit that if the rest of the Clans had fought like Wolf, that ComStar would have lost.

I stand corrected.

While poor deployment by Com Guard forces allowed the Ghost Bears to earn a marginal victory and the savagery of the Jade Falcons allowed them to extract a draw, Clan Wolf comprehensively defeated ComStar at every turn, even when facing four full armies.

[Arctic Fox]

guardian wolf, on 22 May 2012 - 08:53 AM, said:

Then please explain to me WHY did the current precentor martial when speaking to Ulric after the battle, admit that if the rest of the Clans had fought like Wolf, that ComStar would have lost.

Because the Clans fielded a force whose superiority in equipment, training and experience was far greater than the marginal numerical superiority the ComGuards held, and if they had conducted the campaign competently there would have been a much greater chance of them actually winning it.

[Jaroth Corbett]

guardian wolf, on 22 May 2012 - 08:53 AM, said:

Then please explain to me WHY did the current precentor martial when speaking to Ulric after the battle, admit that if the rest of the Clans had fought like Wolf, that ComStar would have lost.

Thorn Hallis, on 22 May 2012 - 09:00 AM, said:

Uhm...did he say that? I remember him saying that he thought Comstar would have lost if Ulric would have guided all of the Clans...though I might be wrong (no book at hand).

That aside, I think its rather hard to define if Clan Wolf's target cities were more easy then the others.

Actually it is basically the same thing.

Quote

Focht turned on him. "Your people got off lightly? Are you not the ilKhan? Do you not lead all the Clans?"


The ilKhan slowly shook his head. "As this battle would prematurely decide the end of our quest, our crusade, it was determined that control of the individual operations would fall to the Clan Khans. Though was permitted to review all data coming up from the planet, I was not obliged to distribute it unless asked. As no one saw fit to request my thoughts, I was free to act to the benefit of my Clan."

So, they forced you to act on your own and you let them twist in the wind. "Had you led them, coordinated them, you would have defeated me."

And yes the Wolf objectives were easier. The Jade Falcons & the Smoke Jaguars made sure of that. I am leaving for work now so I cannot show you that part. When I get back home though, I will be more than happy to.

[guardian wolf]

Thanks for the quote to back it up Jaroth, didn't have anything bet Sarna at the moment... BETA IS HERE!!!!

[Jaroth Corbett]

Send me a PM.

[trycksh0t]

SquareSphere, on 22 May 2012 - 06:44 AM, said:

To me the GREAT FAILING of the Davion's was letting the St. Ives Compact be taken by Sun Tzu. For all their goodie goodie talk they couldn't even keep their promises in their own back yard.

They got HANDLED polictically by both Sun Tzu and Katrina Stiener.

True, but you're oversimplifying matters. Due to the League declaring the Capellan-St. Ives conflict as a civil war, it prevented anyone from getting overly involved without risking severe backlash from it. They could not go on the offensive, because that would have been considered an invasion of another member state and resulted in SLDF Peacekeeping forces being dropped on their heads. By the time the actual war had started, 3061 if memory serves, it was basically over, the Confederation had gained too much ground already. Really, though, blame the Compact for that one. Sure, the Lancers were being led by a Capellan Intelligence agent, but someone should've noticed they were getting ready to jump the border. Then Cassandra attacking SLDF units didn't help matters either. If the Compact had better control of it's people, none of that would've happened.

[Ramien]

Kay Wolf, on 22 May 2012 - 06:37 AM, said:

This is also incorrect. There was plenty of combat going on, within the first 150 years after the first Exodus. If you do the math, realistically, the pre-cursor to the Clans many of you know and love would still be cleaning up the rubble and attempting to get the next generation of scientists up to speed. They should not have anywhere close to the amount of war materials they have in the stories, and shouldn't touch the Inner Sphere until about the time Dark Age starts.

They also had a lot more rules about what could and could not be targeted in their wars, by my understanding. While there was a lot of wasted materiel, they did not bomb themselves back to the stone age nearly as much as the IS did. If you'll notice, there was no rediscovery of losttech by the clans since they did not destroy all their information - they actually made improvements in the tech that the IS was unable to.

[Daetrin Voltari]

Ramien, on 22 May 2012 - 07:07 PM, said:

They also had a lot more rules about what could and could not be targeted in their wars, by my understanding. While there was a lot of wasted materiel, they did not bomb themselves back to the stone age nearly as much as the IS did. If you'll notice, there was no rediscovery of losttech by the clans since they did not destroy all their information - they actually made improvements in the tech that the IS was unable to.

Agreed.

When Kerenskey formed the Clans he mothballed 75% of their mechs and technology and placed them in Brian Caches. It acted as a safety net so no matter how badly the warriors mauled each other the Clans as a whole wouldn't forget their technological innovations. His son Nicholas also formalized combat so that scientists and civilians were off limits as military targets. That's not to say attrocities didn't happen but they were rare and the Clans didn't suffer from Comstar's deliberate attempts to destroy technology and usher in a dark age (Operation Holy Shroud).

Don't get me wrong, Clan economies and production levels don't make a lot of sense, they just never backpedaled the way the Inner Sphere did.

Edited by daetrin voltari, 22 May 2012 - 07:40 PM.

[Threat Doc]

Ramien, on 22 May 2012 - 07:07 PM, said:

They also had a lot more rules about what could and could not be targeted in their wars

Not BEFORE the Clans were formed, or for some time AFTER they were initially formed.

Quote

While there was a lot of wasted materiel, they did not bomb themselves back to the stone age nearly as much as the IS did.

Okay, but understand that the Clans also didn't have anywhere near as much material as the at-its-end Star League, or the very early Successor States, had, either. There's only so much you can pack on starships to fill space not already taken up by gas, food, or people. So, they really couldn't have taken very much tech with them beyond what was naturally loaded on the DropShips, JumpShips, and WarShips. Though the ships could take a beating, they really couldn't store a large supply of sustainment goods, so they would have stopped in certain places away from the Inner Sphere to attempt to replenish, and would have met bad ends quite a bit of the time. By the time they would have arrived at the initial worlds they first tried to colonize, they would have been very low on supplies and people, to say the least, and then almost immediately they began fighting among themselves, just as much as the Inner Sphere was doing, and then Nicholas lead loyalists against the bandits, and then began working the Clan breeding program.

Now, being a war party, for the most part, how many of their number, do you believe, would also be scientists, agriculturalists, geologists, metallurgists and miners, mechanical and chemical engineers, and all of the other things they would need to get on their feet quickly. How many of those, as well, are hunters, trackers, and how many would be taken by the animals after which the Clans named themselves?

Quote

If you'll notice, there was no rediscovery of losttech by the clans since they did not destroy all their information - they actually made improvements in the tech that the IS was unable to.

Yes, I note that. However, did the Exodus forces take smelts, factories, testing and manufacturing centers? HOW did the Exodus forces, who EVENTUALLY became the Clans, not only survive long enough, against themselves and their environments, but also managed to build the structures and technologies that would be necessary to even maintain, let alone build new, the technologies they already had with them, in the form of war machines and starships? They left in 2784, meaning there have been only about 13 generations -by normal figuring of 20 years per generation-, and with the few people left, even having the database they did, it would have taken at least half that number of generations just to get to a point where survival was a lot easier.

Having a 250-year parallel, from the time when the United States of America was established, with a 200+ year precursor since the original 13 colonies were established, it is only in the past 35 years that we have really begun to move forward. It took us 10 generations, from the signing of the Constitution, to start into that technological advance; 18 generations from landing until today. Now, the parallel is not perfect, as we had the people we needed to establish this country, they were able to come here over the course of time rather than all at once, and they had support and a smuggled in-flow of tech from the old country, but we didn't bring as much military technology as we needed, either. I agree the SLDF forces in the Exodus were tenacious, and I'll give them the benefit of the doubt, but I believe they would have needed a LOT more time to put themselves together; the numbers just do not support the growth.

Now, all of that aside, the Clans are a fictional organization -or group of organizations, dependent on who you listen to- in a fictional universe, so anything the writers wanted to do, they could, even if it wasn't entirely right. They should have been more careful when they wrote it.