233 replies to this topic

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

That's true IRL, but shouldn't be true in a video game. And what you said about balance won't be true at all. They would still eventually phase out Inner Sphere stuff entirely. Worse yet is how it would screw new players that can't yet afford those rich toys.

What I don't want is a game where IS stuff is obsolete/pointless and everyone runs around in nothing but Madcats. IS vs Clan would make a lot more sense and be a lot more fun.

Edited by Bluten, 21 December 2012 - 11:20 AM.

[Adridos]

Ahh, the Clan tech.

No minimumm range LRMs.
SSRM6s.
UAC/2,/10 and /20.
1 crit DHS.

Definitely needs some tweaks in any way, shape or form.

Edited by Adridos, 21 December 2012 - 11:18 AM.

[KitK]

/pessimism on/

BV won't work. Although I understand that the BV2 system for TT is better than the previous version, it still gets criticism. And things can get distorted with BV. For instance putting several ECM or BAP can falsely up the BV. Such things are already here. The "Firepower" stat in MWO is a good example. LRM's pump the Firepower stat out of proportion compared to performance under normal circumstances.

5 vs 8 won't work. You just swung the pendulum the other way. And how do you control for all the possible variables like mech size, how it's been modified, player skill? WOW! And what about pugging? Programming-wise there is changes to max group size, changes to rewards - on and on it goes - the complexity goes way up. Though I suppose that the interface as we know it is going to change a lot between now and community warfare.

Hi costs won't work. Someone else has already stated it well in the first page. And to those who raise the "Play 2 Win" banner anytime anyone points out that Clan Tech WILL be (let alone should be) expensive, I say MEH! While I agree that Clan tech can't be just for the financially (C-bill and USD) elite, at the same they shouldn't be buying and running a Timberwolf as cheaply as a Commando.

Faction role play won't work. I think I'll switch factions for a while so I can get a Clan mech, and swtich again, and switch again. Oh, and reading sarna.net does not make you an expert on Zellbrigen. Zellbrigen is:
1) an exercise in situational ethics
2) faction specific in it's application
3) has several levels or strictness as to when and how much has to be adhered to.
4) has nothing to do with sportsmanship and fair play and everything to do with ego
5) even if both teams agreed to it, it is functionally diffiucult to implement - sending and accepting challenges, picking targets, refusing challenges, starting melees...seriously, 15 minutes is not enough. And then people express expectations that the game can track all of that to constrain our behavior! Yeah right.

/pessimism off/

There is not golden BB here folks. The solution here will have to involve economy, matchmaking, weapon balancing, faction role play, and more. None of these is capable of handling the situation alone.

[Hotthedd]

Bluten, on 21 December 2012 - 11:17 AM, said:

That's true IRL, but shouldn't be true in a video game. And what you said about balance won't be true at all. They would still eventually phase out Inner Sphere stuff entirely. Worse yet is how it would screw new players that can't yet afford those rich toys.

What I don't want is a game where IS stuff is obsolete/pointless and everyone runs around in nothing but Madcats. IS vs Clan would make a lot more sense and be a lot more fun.

Everyone WOULDN'T be running around in clan chassis, and those few who would would most likely still have IS tech on their 'mechs for the most part. Not to mention, NOBODY would be able to unlock "elite" skills on their 'mech unless they were able to somehow acquire 3 variants of that chassis. (This could take years)

[Merky Merc]

Again skip it forward a few years so all the tech is available for all the players. This lets community warfare become more logical as well in lieu of sticking us all together as the new SLDF. Though I could be off on that.

[Kunae]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 21 December 2012 - 08:51 AM, said:

I dont want to see PGI butcher Clan tech

Better get used to wearing a blind-fold, then.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

DarkAlman, on 21 December 2012 - 09:39 AM, said:

The other balancing act is Clan Honour. Clan mechwarriors can only fight one mech at a time, until that opponent dies or runs away he can't engage anyone else. (Like anyone ever did that in the TT)

matchmaking, the lagshield fix AND perfect CW are more likely to get into the game than you are likely to get internet warriors to care about Clan honor imo

[Terran123rd]

It should definitely be balanced. And it should start with higher costs, the inability to modify the internals and armor, and numerical disadvantages (the proposed star versus two lances idea sounds good, at least as a starting point).

If needed, it should then extend into direct nerfs of the tech itself.

Counting Clan 'mechs as 10 - 20 tons heavier during matchmaking might be something to look into as well.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Sears, on 21 December 2012 - 09:43 AM, said:

I think when March rolls along you won't see the release of clan mechs. The planets in question that come under attack will be ones under PGI's control. You'll start seeing concept art like battle reports of mechs perhaps and then slowly Clan mechs will be released as if more of them have been salvaged. I like that idea rather than March coming along and everyone in the inner sphere suddenly has clan tech.

I think we really need CW before they start introducing the clans anyways. Unless theyre going to start randomly dropping clan mechs into games somehow

verybad, on 21 December 2012 - 09:45 AM, said:

The reason they lost the invasion is because they didn't fight well as a team, they fought well as individual warriors.

make them not able to drop in groups. PUG only... thatll see to that bit of RP

[Knights0fNi]

Clan tech as written is %100 fine in my opinion. As long as you remember that they cost about 2x as much in BV. Therefor much smaller clan units will engage and fight larger IS units. An IS unit should outnumber a clan unit by 2x the mechs or so. That makes for an interesting fight. A technologically superior but outnumbered force vs an technologically inferior but numerically superior force. Teamwork and skill still win the day, as it should be (letting alone the clan rules about 1 on 1 combat, I doubt that can be integrated into the game)

Edited by Knights0fNi, 21 December 2012 - 12:12 PM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

verybad, on 21 December 2012 - 10:09 AM, said:

I highly doubt we'll see free to use omni tech. It'll be Prime, Alpha, Beta, etc as variants. Just as variants are handled currently with IS mechs.

I know some clan donkies will moo at this, moo really hard, cry and whine, but it really is for the best in terms of gameplay, so stop mooing you donkies.

PGI falls apart in the face of that mooing so fast people are killed by the shrapnel... so Id expect the donkies to win

Hotthedd, on 21 December 2012 - 10:21 AM, said:

Mercenary outfits that salvage clan 'mechs should get to use their salvage.

except in this game its not actual salvage but salvage pay

[Cygone]

Simple, just make it STUPIDLY expensive. Say 150m for a chassis, and 1m + for each weapon with silly R&R costs, this would mean ppl would use them for organised play and keep them off the normal game for everyone else

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Jakob Knight, on 21 December 2012 - 10:31 AM, said:

Also, your poll is deceptive, as it does not allow a player to say 'no' to the title question (a rather given, as it is a yes or no question, and not 'how do you want clantech to be in the game, since I'm not going to let you say anything but yes'.

theres a reason for that. Theres another thread exactly FOR that reason that HAS that option. I even linked it on the top of page 2. If you want that option, go there

[Ares Morgan]

I want the clans to have clantech thats full power, but i dont want IS to have use of it. I want clans to be balanced by less pilots in matches when fighting against IS. I think this could be done if people had 2 mech bays one for IS and one for Clan.

[borisof007]

Battle Value will ultimately have to be implemented in order for Clan tech to be feasibly integrated within the game as it is now without having to dumb down the weapons.

If clan tech is going to be superior, either a BV system needs to be in place (not saying that need the EXACT same TT version, BV 1.0 or 2.0, but a modified version specifically for MWO), or Repair and Re-arm needs to come back so that repair costs fall in line, however I'm not in favor of R&R coming back.

A weight limit on drops for 8 man groups is a good start, but BV I think is where we all need to go.

Edited by borisof007, 21 December 2012 - 12:18 PM.

[Triordinant]

I've always believed that Clan tech (as opposed to Lostech) should only be used by the Clans and the Clans should always be PvE enemies a.k.a. non-player characters. Clan stars (5-man teams) should go up against 2 Inner Sphere lances (two 4-man teams) or even whole IS mech companies (12-man teams).

[Odins Fist]

I don't see how they could include the Clan Tech versus the IS Tech, it will have to end up being balanced.
There is "NO" amount of Pilot skill that will make up for "OVERWHELMING" firepower.. "PERIOD"
.
If this were sticking to the way it's suppossed to be, then Clan Tech would be pretty much all anyone would run.
.
I don't care how good of a pilot you "THINK" you are, if I can fire twice as often, and hit twice as hard, then it's game over.
Anyone that wants to keep clinging to the idea that their pilot skill will pull them out of such a disadvantage, is just plain delusional. If two Mechs of fairly equal manueverability and speed meet, and one of the Mechs out-guns the other by almost 2 to 1, then it's over before it began, and that is just the reality of the situation. NOW, you couple that with an 8 v 8 match of all Clan Tech on one side, and all I.S. on the other, and it gets even worse... I would guess, that some kind of MM tweak could help, but i'm not for trying to add anything into MWO that will prolong this "Quasi" BETA state that it is in...
.
I bet there will be a lot of people saying this, and saying that about pilot skill, but it doesn't make a bit of difference, and anyone that thinks differently is a complete fool. Go look at the numbers for TT, and don't say this isn't TT, we have nothing else to go by, since Can Mechs, and Clan Tech aren't even in MWO yet.
.
I would hazard a guess that Clan Tech will be the same as I.S. Tech in MWO, we will just be able to get our hands on Clan Mechs "minus" the Clan Tech like in the books, and TT..

Edited by Odins Fist, 21 December 2012 - 12:36 PM.

[Ozric]

You can not add unbalanced clans to the game without making all the IS mechs and equipment pointless. So they when they are added, they will not be. Obviously.

Some people are still clinging on the dream of piloting an OP clan mech with OP weapons that takes two other players to beat, but that is an unreasonable expectation given the direction of the game. That is why there must also be mix tech, to maintain viability in all chassis, and this seems to me to be the best way to go about things. No other solution is workable really. 12vs10? Crazy talk.

Also, there is some irony in calling your poll 'do you want real clan tech.' Real in who's mind exactly?

[Inappropriate1191]

Orgasmo, on 21 December 2012 - 08:48 AM, said:

Clans are supposed to be two centuries ahead, so of course they would be way more advanced. However for the sake of the game, there should be downside to using Clan Tech.

- They should double the price of what IS components cost at the minimum, triple ideally.
- You must pay repair and rearm cost, at double the rate R/R cost before it got removed from the game. A loss from a match and major destruction to your components should cost you around 200k. That will get you to play tactically, like Clan warriors.

It makes sense to do so both game balance-wise and lore-wise. Clan Tech were incredibly difficult to come across at the early point of the invasion, and the IS factions have little understanding of them.

Except that Clan tech was specifically designed for ease of repair by less skilled technicians vs Inner Sphere rigs. Going by that logic, it shouldn't take long for the theoretically more skilled IS technicians to figure out how to repair clan tech, or how to integrate it, thus resulting in cheaper repair costs overall.

Psychobob, on 21 December 2012 - 09:53 AM, said:

Well, I've held the belief for a while that they should introduce Clan Mechs, but make them all bots that show up periodically and kill everyone in a match leaving the match to end in a draw.


As for Mixed tech mechs... why not just use a hardpoint system. Say each IS mech can have maybe 1 or 2 clantech weapons (that would of course cost more than comparable IS tech)

This would be kinda awesome


Overall, I don't really see much of a reason to balance clan tech, other than have clan players be outnumbered and get a pay/XP penalty for kill assists. Either way, it's stupid to talk balance. Why can't something just be better? Why not accept the fact that once people can afford better clan tech, that nobody will run IS weapons and engines if they don't have to? You morons already ruined gauss rifles, don't ruin clan tech as well.

Edited by Inappropriate1191, 21 December 2012 - 01:01 PM.

[Firion Corodix]

It should be added in unmodified so it's somewhat in line with emc.