233 replies to this topic

[Frenchtoastman]

If it becomes part of the game where most/everyone gets access to it eventually, I think it will HAVE to be balanced. If not, then say hello to Rambo becoming a working reality, prepare for piloting/tactical skill to be moot compared to gear, get ready for a ton of weapons becoming useless because a certain few are simply better in most/every way.

No sir, I will take balance.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Frenchtoastman, on 21 December 2012 - 06:38 PM, said:

get ready for a ton of weapons becoming useless because a certain few are simply better in most/every way.

thats happening already and has been since people figured out the 2x gauss k2

maybe since they announced the way mechs could be fitted

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 21 December 2012 - 06:45 PM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

bumpity bump bump look at frosty go

[shintakie]

Wintersdark, on 21 December 2012 - 05:03 PM, said:

Clan tech as is. I'm really looking forward to the Clan invasion.

Yes, generally speaking the Clan mechs are more powerful. The whole point of setting the game at a specific time and moving forward allows PGI to continuously introduce gradually more powerful mechs legitimately. They've got a business to run, and want to keep providing New Shinies for us to strive for. This allows them to introduce ever better stuff without it being a blatant cash grab, or silly expansion power creep. See: WoW, etc, where the next tier of stuff is more powerful just because it is.

Ultimately, though, balancing new clan stuff against existing mechs is silly and stupid. Old models of military hardware depreciate amd are succeeded by new models. It's how it works in all warfare.

I'm interested in how they introduce it. Do they just start adding clan mechs? Will there be some awesome event? How will the invasion be modelled in the context of the game? There's a lot of potential for awesome here.

How exactly does this work with any form of new player experience though?

Okay...tech advances. All the old guard get fancy new equipment that outshines the old garbage by a very large margin. All the new plebs are stuck with that cruddy old stuff thats held together by duct tape and wishes. New players get obliterated even faster than they do now. They quit in disgust.

[FunkyFritter]

I see it as being comparable to raising the level cap in an mmo. Clan tech should outclass most of the IS arsenal, so long as everyone has easy access to it there's no problem with that.

[Walter Soebchak]

two proposals which could be combined.

1 - when they get the game up to 12v12 introduce clans with their original tech advantages but limit them to two stars of mechs a total of 10, and allow the I.S. team to play with 3 lances a total of 12. That would give the clans better tech, but the I.S. more machines, much like it was in the fiction. I know, I know, no referencing the source material, but this would be a way to keep things somewhat balanced without nerfing clan tech to the point of it being unnecessary.

2 - Make it cost at least 50% more than I.S, tech to get in the first place, both in MC and CBills. That would help to keep it rarer with players who don't want to purchase massive amounts of MC or farm hour upon hour of cbills to be able to buy a Madcat. Also, it would make having a clan mech an accomplishment not a given,

[Wired]

With any possible balancing factor removed from the game? No. You want to see a bad new player experience, try having people in the new player area and those just beyond(IE not able to afford clan tech) having to go against superior technology.

[Gremlich Johns]

EyeOne, on 21 December 2012 - 08:41 AM, said:

I don't see how they can do it with full power clan tech.

By limiting Clan team size (in both number and tonnage) relative to the number and tonnage of IS mechs dropped in a match. (P.S.: And by getting rid of PGI's ECM cloak suite and putting in something that reflects some reality.)

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Walter Soebchak, on 22 December 2012 - 09:22 AM, said:

two proposals which could be combined.

1 - when they get the game up to 12v12 introduce clans with their original tech advantages but limit them to two stars of mechs a total of 10, and allow the I.S. team to play with 3 lances a total of 12. That would give the clans better tech, but the I.S. more machines, much like it was in the fiction. I know, I know, no referencing the source material, but this would be a way to keep things somewhat balanced without nerfing clan tech to the point of it being unnecessary.

2 - Make it cost at least 50% more than I.S, tech to get in the first place, both in MC and CBills. That would help to keep it rarer with players who don't want to purchase massive amounts of MC or farm hour upon hour of cbills to be able to buy a Madcat. Also, it would make having a clan mech an accomplishment not a given,

making it cost mc would be he definition of pay to win

Gremlich Johns, on 22 December 2012 - 09:27 AM, said:

By limiting Clan team size (in both number and tonnage) relative to the number and tonnage of IS mechs dropped in a match. (P.S.: And by getting rid of PGI's ECM cloak suite and putting in something that reflects some reality.)

I cant wait to see THAT updated to clan tech. Prolly actually makes hte mech invisible

[Wintersdark]

shintakie, on 22 December 2012 - 09:14 AM, said:

How exactly does this work with any form of new player experience though?

Okay...tech advances. All the old guard get fancy new equipment that outshines the old garbage by a very large margin. All the new plebs are stuck with that cruddy old stuff thats held together by duct tape and wishes. New players get obliterated even faster than they do now. They quit in disgust.

why can't new players get clan tech too? Just like now, new players have access to the same mechs everyone else does.

[Ozric]

Gremlich Johns, on 22 December 2012 - 09:27 AM, said:

By limiting Clan team size (in both number and tonnage) relative to the number and tonnage of IS mechs dropped in a match.

In an online shooter like MWO 12vs10 (for example) gives a massive advantage to the larger team despite tonnage. More living, thinking players is better than just a few extra counters on the table, and two commandos in MWO have the advantage over one atlas. Trying to use uneven teams as a balancing factor is doomed to fail. Clearly the clan mechs would have to be seriously OP just to make up the difference, and if half the mechs in the game are OP and half are not, who exactly would play the weaker mechs?

Clan tech will be another 'tier' of mechs and gear, but it will have to balanced to fit in with the existing tech or everything else PGI has done up to that point will be made moot. They want us to keep buying all the mechs all the time, not just picking up the newest strongest mech every month. The way PGI has done things so far makes me think that clan tech will be balanced with a pro/con system, similar to the LLAS/ERLLAS trade off we have now.

[Valkaryie]

Only way is through repair rearm but clan mechs times 2. And balanced teams based on rank or expierence. Or make clanners fight like clanners. no kill assist or component destruction bonus only win kill bonus period. That would be fair. I love IS mechs but id run some clan tech in the guass and Ballistics/misissles but would run IS lazers. We can not price clan tech high only premades or pay to win would run them but if we made it balanced in the teams. Batchall would be cool too if your a clan team u have to bid the lowest tonnage for right to battle or even a tonnage per match limit 8v8 but make it 400 tons Clan vs 500 tons IS.

[OldGrayDonkey]

Ryokens leap, on 21 December 2012 - 08:45 AM, said:

PGI should freeze the timeline and forget about Clan invasion until I.S. gameplay is balanced out and netcode problems, ect are brought under control. We havnt even scratched the surface of I.S. combat and game modes, why cause more problems with Clan tech. Yes we all want Timberwolves, Summoners and Stormcrows but not if the game is full of bugs.

Agree. The game is not ready to start advancing the time line. Plus, who will get clan tech? Shouldn't we have faction play and the whole strategic game before we even begin thinking about the clan invading? At some point players are going to have to declare their loyalty, and at that time, mech selection should be considered. You will have to chose the clan side and disavow all loyalty to the I.S. to play clan mechs... at least that's how I think it should be.

[Ozric]

Darkstang, on 22 December 2012 - 10:51 AM, said:

Agree. The game is not ready to start advancing the time line. Plus, who will get clan tech? Shouldn't we have faction play and the whole strategic game before we even begin thinking about the clan invading? At some point players are going to have to declare their loyalty, and at that time, mech selection should be considered. You will have to chose the clan side and disavow all loyalty to the I.S. to play clan mechs... at least that's how I think it should be.

I think that we may get CW and the Clans at the same time. It would make sense for the devs to have written the clans in to the system already, and if they release CW first and just for the IS, that would also mean that we would be playing with another unfinished system. I'd certainly rather that they put CW in all at once, so it could be balanced all at once too.

Now that I come to think of it, if the Clans are viable factions from the get go then it wouldn't really be fair on them to let the IS factions get a head start. Obviously this assumes that all factions are balanced to be equal, and invasion or not any faction can top the charts at any time.

Edited by Ozric, 22 December 2012 - 11:06 AM.

[Viper69]

Thirdstar, on 21 December 2012 - 10:01 AM, said:

From what I understand that's not how the proposed ELO system works.

http://mwomercs.com/...79-matchmaking/

No it is not how it works, never said it did. I am saying a battle value system would fix a lot of these miss matches happening and would balance out clan Vs IS.

[Tempered]

Who said that the players will get clan mechs? What if the clan wars is all PVE or just news blurs, but you never actually fight them?

Personally, I think the way they will do it is to only allow the teams that hold certain planets to get clan tech or become clanners. So all the pugs will be left as cannon fodder

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Ares Morgan, on 21 December 2012 - 12:17 PM, said:

I want the clans to have clantech thats full power, but i dont want IS to have use of it. I want clans to be balanced by less pilots in matches when fighting against IS. I think this could be done if people had 2 mech bays one for IS and one for Clan.

As a lot of us are suggesting, IS vs Clan, with sizes being 8vs5 or 12vs10. Contrary to what some users say, those extra numbers would mean A LOT in a game and even superior technology would have trouble with that. You could make a really balanced mode out of this without having to fully water down Clan Tech or throw IS Tech to the trash.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Tempered, on 23 December 2012 - 08:16 PM, said:

Who said that the players will get clan mechs? What if the clan wars is all PVE or just news blurs, but you never actually fight them?

Personally, I think the way they will do it is to only allow the teams that hold certain planets to get clan tech or become clanners. So all the pugs will be left as cannon fodder

Piranha once said some time ago that they have every intent for players to eventually be able to play Clan Mechs. I just hope it's full IS vs full Clan or IS Tech will eventually become obsolete.(Which would kill the game for me, an IS Mech/House fan.)

But I am also hoping for Co Op modes for IS vs Clan. Invading Clans would make a very obvious good opposition for PvE content. I would love 4/8player Co Op missions against Clanners.

[Fate 6]

Need an option: Don't talk to me about Clan tech balance until ECM stops breaking the game.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Fate 6, on 23 December 2012 - 08:29 PM, said:

Need an option: Don't talk to me about Clan tech balance until ECM stops breaking the game.

I'm glad to see that a growing number of people are finally waking up about the ECM issues. We were, 3 weeks ago, a very tiny minority and got nothing but flames/rage/l2p responses. With more people wanting real game balance, not OP this trash that, maybe Piranha will come around?