286 replies to this topic

[BR0WN_H0RN3T]

Tolkien, on 02 January 2013 - 01:35 PM, said:

Jimminy garth - the ECM questions I put up gathered nearly 300 likes and you can't even give me the benefit of one

I am sad panda...

What's the point of asking PGI any questions. Even if they respond to ecm questions we won't get more than a "we are closely examining the numbers." It's their standard way of saying "we don't play the game, we're just developing it." Don't worry tho. In the next patch they will be offering an ecm counter for 10000 MCs...lol

Edited by Brown Hornet, 05 January 2013 - 08:32 PM.

[Adrienne Vorton]

i still don´t understand all the drama about ECM... it feels like a challenge to me, not more... a challenge i accepted in many ways... maybe some tweaking here and there, and remove it from the DDC^^ but that´s about it... i like it all in all

btw... this was not a very satisfying Q&A this time, but it´s been x-mas and stuff, i guess it´s understandable^^

Edited by Adrienne Vorton, 05 January 2013 - 09:03 PM.

[Danilius UFA]

Hi,
1. Is there any affiliate referral program? I would like to earn on attracting new players from Russia.
2. Whether it is planned to localize the game in Russia?

Answer please e-mail at: danilvavilov@gmail.com

Edited by Danilius UFA, 05 January 2013 - 09:40 PM.

[xX_Nero_Xx]

Q. DO you have any intention of putting a ingame chat lobby , if so what kind of time frame are yall looking at before its is here

[Cola]

Danilius UFA, on 05 January 2013 - 09:39 PM, said:

Hi,
1. Is there any affiliate referral program? I would like to earn on attracting new players from Russia.

Answer please e-mail at: danilvavilov@gmail.com

This is a Great Idea, An MC or Cbill or even a week of premium time? Kick for both players after a person referred to the game has played for a set time would be a good way to expand the player base. Eve does it by giving you game time if the person converts there trial account to a full account.

[Gremlich Johns]

One thing I am sure nobody has thought of - when the Clans make their grand appearance outside of the periphery (if the rumours are true), none of the IS ECM equipment in 3050 should be able to negate/degrade Clan sensors to the level it does IS systems. Why? Because the Clans know what frequencies IS weapons and target acquisition sensors operate on and they would purpose design, weapons system, sensors, C3, and C3i suites/capabilities which would not be affected to the point of uselessness in the near term. Sure, the Canon does not reflect this, (poor research on the writer's part) but consider that the Clans improved IS tech during their "stay away", they would also have made improvements in other areas besides just the basic mech and weapons designs.

Edited by Gremlich Johns, 06 January 2013 - 10:31 AM.

[Red squirrel]

Thontor, on 02 January 2013 - 01:53 PM, said:

Its already died down signicantly. ECM seems to be far less common these days, and teams with less/no ECM seem to be doing a lot better... People are starting to figure ECM isn't god mode, and it is possible to win without it.

Which game are you playing? Probably not MW:O

[Novawrecker]

Hmm, why soo many questions were left unanswered & ignored. I know several concerns rate lower than everyones' issue with ECM, but that does not omit the fact that many were questions were completely ignored.

[BR0WN_H0RN3T]

Novawrecker, on 06 January 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

Hmm, why soo many questions were left unanswered & ignored. I know several concerns rate lower than everyones' issue with ECM, but that does not omit the fact that many were questions were completely ignored.

They put them in the "too hard basket."

The other way to interpret the lack of response (or meaningful response) to important questions is that the game is in so much flux that a concrete answer is just not politically correct to give. Their community affairs advisors have probably suggested they be vague until they have confirmed certain decisions so as not to imply finished products, which of course cost real $$$ to you and me. Of course, this behaviour concerns me because I now refuse to spend any more $ unless I'm confident I'm getting a finished product. Goodwill = ZERO.

[JustPyro]

Arcturious, on 03 January 2013 - 02:32 AM, said:

Regarding the ECM question, as has been stated already in this thread it was full of factual errors and just because people gave it a like does not mean it deserves to be answered. As has also been posted, the Devs have provided information on ECM repeatedly However as many of you don't like the answers you choose to ignore the data. Please admit to yourselves that the answer you are really looking for is "Remove ECM" and that nothing else will satisfy you. The fact that post received so many likes is actually kind of depressing, as it affirms the lack of understanding around the actual game mechanics that are already in effect.

The Devs are working on ECM. They have already buffed TAG range. In this very Q&A they admit that they are looking at making TAG have a toggle for always on.
*Snip*
http://mwomercs.com/...52#entry1692852

I wish I could like this more than once. Arcturious addresses everything (seriously I see Ilyas running ALL over the place). The devs are obviously looking at ECM. They have said several times they generally like how it works, and that it needs tweaking. They are obviously looking at ways to do this. I don't think anyone loves ECM as it is, but it's sticking around and there ARE ways around it. I've seen teams with no ECM take out those with it. Yes, it is hard, yes, non-ECM variants are at a disadvantage to ECM variants. But you can still see Jenner pilots taking down Ravens. You see a lot more tag, and I've definitely seen many ECM lights demolished due to LRMs.

This is an ongoing game. It's going to continue to change. Remember: Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.

[Daimonos]

@Garth,
Whether or not Tolkien's question was 'loaded', simply ignoring his and all other questions about ECM, was just rude.

"Ask the developers" is all very well, but if they're going to completely ignore the subject that most people want to talk about, what's the point? You could at least acknowledge the level of concern over ECM, even if you don't agree that it's justified.

[Jakob Knight]

Gremlich Johns, on 06 January 2013 - 10:30 AM, said:

One thing I am sure nobody has thought of - when the Clans make their grand appearance outside of the periphery (if the rumours are true), none of the IS ECM equipment in 3050 should be able to negate/degrade Clan sensors to the level it does IS systems. Why? Because the Clans know what frequencies IS weapons and target acquisition sensors operate on and they would purpose design, weapons system, sensors, C3, and C3i suites/capabilities which would not be affected to the point of uselessness in the near term. Sure, the Canon does not reflect this, (poor research on the writer's part) but consider that the Clans improved IS tech during their "stay away", they would also have made improvements in other areas besides just the basic mech and weapons designs.

Another Clan fanboi who thinks the Clans are invincible and hoping to get yet more advantages?

In the first place, ECM systems are wide-band and not specified to just one frequency. They run up and down the EM spectrum, so unless the Clans discover an entirely new EM spectrum, it will affect them in exactly the same way as any other.

Secondly, Inner Sphere forces have been engaged in warfare with each other for -centuries-, and know enough to vary their frequencies and keep those frequencies secret. Otherwise, don't you think the IS forces would have done this themselves, and with far more effectiveness (they know the systems in use in the Inner Sphere better than the Clans do)? It doesn't matter what the Clans might know one day, because the next it's different. Also, the Clans do not have the extensive spy network you seem to think they do, considering the scouts they sent to survey the Inner Sphere (and survey is what they did, not detailed intel) went AWOL on the orders of the Il-Khan, stopping communication long before any time that could have mattered for this.

Lastly, this is something never even once hinted at in any of the source material, novels, or TT rules, so I don't see it has any basis for being in MWO on those grounds either. Stating 'sure, canon does not reflect this' does not discount that this is a reason for it -not- being so. And, there is even a battle during the Invasion where the Draconis Combine -does- use ECM to defeat a Clan force, proving the Clan systems are just a vunerable to jamming and interference as their Inner Sphere counterparts. Assuming things 'have to be so' when all evidence says otherwise or is silent is not even assumption, but willful ignorance. Don't use it as the basis of logical conclusion.

If you are going to stump for the Clans, at least read about them and the universe they exist in.

Edited by Jakob Knight, 07 January 2013 - 06:21 AM.

[Jakob Knight]

JustPyro, on 06 January 2013 - 11:51 PM, said:

I I don't think anyone loves ECM as it is, but it's sticking around and there ARE ways around it.

There are some people who love ECM as it is. The Devs who put it in the game and the gamers who like magic boxes to remove aspects of the game they don't use and can't deal with any other way. Since the Devs who put it in the game are the same people who say they are 'looking into it', we can't expect anything other than 'working as intended' answers, since they very much want it as it is.

Also, the people who have beat ECM teams without ECM have only done so because the ECM team was inept. In every battle I have been in where the ECM team knows what they are doing, the non-ECM team loses. Badly.

But that's just my own experience, I'm sure.

[Bors Mistral]

arden, on 05 January 2013 - 05:01 PM, said:

If they tell me ECM is working 100% as intended...

To everyone who gets hung on that line... It's high time you realize it means "it's not bugged", and not "we're never going to change it".

As for the purpose of this thread, the answers to the community questions - well, as usual there are quite a few important ones we're missing, but that's how it is.

[StalaggtIKE]

Bors Mistral, on 07 January 2013 - 06:37 AM, said:

To everyone who gets hung on that line... It's high time you realize it means "it's not bugged", and not "we're never going to change it".

Source?

Because that just sounds like your opinion, not a fact. If he had said, "It is working as designed/programmed", then I'll take it as that. Besides the issue with ECM has not been that it is bugged, but that it is unbalanced. Thus his reply. Given the context it would seem he's saying they do not plan on changing it.

Edited by StalaggtIKE, 07 January 2013 - 06:58 AM.

[Jakob Knight]

StalaggtIKE, on 07 January 2013 - 06:52 AM, said:

Source?

Because that just sounds like your opinion, not a fact. If he had said, "It is working as designed/programmed", then I'll take it as that. Besides the issue with ECM has not been that it is bugged, but that it is unbalanced. Thus his reply. Given the context it would seem he's saying they do not plan on changing it.

I tend to agree with this. No one is disputing that ECM does everything the Devs have stated it would do in the game. What people are disputing is a) that it does far too much for what the drawbacks are, b ) that it shouldn't do all that it does based on the original source material, c) that it unfairly shuts down an entire class of weaponry, d) that the proposed counters are not actually counters, and e) that the system duplicated multiple, much more advanced systems with more drawbacks that are not part of the current place in the timeline established by BT and that MWO proports to follow (similar to introducing Advanced Tactical Missiles into the current level of tech in the game).

In short, not that it isn't working, but that it -shouldn't- work. So the answers we receive from the Devs have to be in regards to that (though we do seem to have one instance in this round of answers where Garth gives an answer that is different from the question being asked, so who knows if they had too much eggnog before they gave us the answers they did).

Edited by Jakob Knight, 07 January 2013 - 08:04 AM.

[Lanessar]

I try to maintain a balanced standpoint on developer's feedback for this game, realizing they are busy, and things do happen. However, the answers from Garth were mostly vague. I could literally have answered most of those questions myself, sans "fluff" questions. "In the future" is literally the stock response for any question of real merit.

I personally do not have an issue with ECM, I think it works in the game. However, due to the number of feedback questions regarding it, not addressing any of them really makes me not care about reading these Q&As any longer. This one particularly was terrible at addressing the community's interest.

Out of the 24 questions selected, only two were actual, real answers. This concerns me. Granted, most of the questions are about future features, but I think answering fewer questions with more complete information ("yes, and this is our initial plan for how things might work, subject to change") would make this a more satisfying insight into the project.

To wit: On the TAG toggling question, you can look up in your coding tracking system what's been coded on it and say "yes, we're working on implementing this. I can't say for sure when it will be live, but it appears that it will be going to test [next week/next month/whenever]".

This would make this a more satisfying read, and feel like real feedback to the community's questions, in my opinion.

[ExAstris]

I thought the point of ask the devs was for the community to get feedback. It looks like the devs are getting more feedback about how to give us feedback than we are getting actual feedback.

[Gremlich Johns]

Jakob Knight, on 07 January 2013 - 05:41 AM, said:

If you are going to stump for the Clans, at least read about them and the universe they exist in.

Totally missed the academic discussion, eh.....

If you've ever used ECM in the real world (which I have), I can accept your premise with some caveats. However, since you are undoubtedly ignorant of such things and cannot realize that the fiction created around the BT milieu was based loosely on reality, then your premise is fail. If advances in Clan tech were so exceptional, C3 and C3I systems would also have undergone some development, like enabling frequency-hopping (which the original writers knew nothing about) or how to employ jamming in pin-point or barrage modes without overheating the systems. ECM is intended to either be subtle (where the opposing force does not realize they are being affected until it is too late), or blunt force where they know without question that they are being jammed. The ECM system in the fiction is way beyond reality. The game version is mystical (it puts out no heat, what else could it be?).

For what it is worth, I know, after long association with the fiction (1983), that the Clans are not invincible, and your presumption actually places you with the ignorant faction of MW players, not me. The fiction could have been written better, but it was not. The Clans were intended to fail from the beginning when they were introduced. Any Clan "fanboi" (you cannot even spell) can imagine what the fiction would have been had it been written with a little more realism (instead of just making stuff up that went beyond suspension of disbelief). The Clans "know" the weaknesses and limitations of the IS equipment and the advances the IS had made up to the time of the Clan invasion were laughable. They would also have known from the SDLF history, that bidding and Zellbrigen would be wasted upon the IS and so would not have engaged in it when the two sides met. Remember, when the Exodus occurred, it was to remove power from those who would abuse it- why would anything have changed. And, if anything, the honor system would have been brought in after the invasion had well been underway. But I digress, while weapons superiority is essential, survivability on the battlefield is key. Science marched forward in the BT universe, but was limited by the research skills of the writers and the battlefield extranea suffered probably because it was too in the weeds.

[Bors Mistral]

StalaggtIKE, on 07 January 2013 - 06:52 AM, said:

Source?

Experience and common sense.

MWO is a competitive online game that is still under development. Very few things are set in stone and it is foolish to assume that the current ECM implementation is one of them.