605 replies to this topic

[liviuandro]

F2P is the future of the on-line gaming. Now, we can be part of it. Cool!

[IceSerpent]

Artifact, on 12 December 2011 - 11:32 AM, said:

Pay-2-Win is not a concept foreign to competitive events IRL. I know first hand; I own and operate a race car. Whenever someone says 'All things being equal...', I laugh, because in racing, there IS no equal, no matter WHAT class you are in.

Same concept applies here. Except, I don't (one hopes!!!!) need to spend 50 thousand dollars to be on equal footing with the fastest guys in my class. No, I can do that with 50 (again, one hopes). Considering the fact that if this game is what I expect it to be, I'll be playing for years, such a low dollar investment is an incredible value, in my view.

I think you misunderstand what P2W means - translated into RL events it's not that shelling out extra cash makes it a bit easier to win a race, but rather that when I spend more money than competitors, it gives me an enormous advantage and practically guarantees victory. To use your example, if I bring a brand new Ferrari to the race track while everybody else can only afford a horse, that's P2W scenario.
The limited advantage along the lines of me spending 50 grand on a race car and you only spending 45 translates into MMO as "folks who spend more time playing are better off than casual players".

[Crimson Fenris]

I dislike concept of F2P, because it's often followed by P2W model...

Why don't adopt the Guild War's model ? I believe it's the best possible : all users pay for the same game, as usual, and dont have to subscribe any monthly payment to continue playing.

Sometimes, add a big extension, and let Players play to the original game, when those that bought the extension will be granted access to other game zones, other missions, skins, all things that dont break the game balance.


Otherwise, I dont know how is possible a COMPLETE F2P model without anything to retribute your work... with real money, of course

[GaussDragon]

Artifact, on 12 December 2011 - 11:32 AM, said:

Pay-2-Win is not a concept foreign to competitive events IRL. I know first hand; I own and operate a race car. Whenever someone says 'All things being equal...', I laugh, because in racing, there IS no equal, no matter WHAT class you are in.

Amen, I learned this after go-karting competitively for 3 years. I lost my interest in F1 because you knew which cars were the best in any given season. Not to take anything away from auto racing, I love it, but some cars in any given field are just... OP.

[Haipyng]

I have one problem with the free to play model. It leaves the game wide open to cheaters and griefers. It becomes impossible to police the game because they will make another account. Dynamic IPs and proxies make it all too easy.

[Dihm]

That's the second time I've seen a comment like that. Not quite sure how it makes a game "wide open" to cheating any more than a paid game. Are League of Legends and World of Tanks and other free to play games having serious issues? WoT wasn't at all when I played it.

[Haipyng]

Dihm, on 14 December 2011 - 05:43 AM, said:

Not quite sure how it makes a game "wide open" to cheating any more than a paid game. Are League of Legends and World of Tanks and other free to play games having serious issues? WoT wasn't at all when I played it.

Some of it depends on the popularity of the game and community. The only time something like that gets out of hand in a paid game is when they offer free trials, ala WoW. Something more popular like in the Battlefield 3 beta cheating was rampant, because they could just make a new account and hop right back in.

Without some sort of pain involved with losing your account, beyond signing up again, someone can just keep turning up. It only takes a few bad apples to ruin the bushel.

The only fix for it I know of is hyper attenuated admin control that lowers the ban hammer as soon as a report is made and verified. That creates more work for the cheater/griefer than it is worth since they might spend as much time signing up as actually playing. That requires a lot of manpower for any game developer to apply and is unlikely to come about. Automated cheat controllers like VAC or Punkbuster are only as good as their last update and take time between updates to catch up. Those of course do nothing for griefers just out to ruin the game for someone else.

Just some of my musings.

[Thorqemada]

GaussDragon, on 13 December 2011 - 09:15 PM, said:

Amen, I learned this after go-karting competitively for 3 years. I lost my interest in F1 because you knew which cars were the best in any given season. Not to take anything away from auto racing, I love it, but some cars in any given field are just... OP.

Cart-Racing in real life made me stop playing any racing simulations - a pc game never get only 5% of the fun of real racing!
And a big yes - racing is about money and not about talent bcs the opponents be sometimes that OP technically that it becomes ridiculous.
Yet i only play arcade racing games for the fun of making weird stunts.

Well, there is no real life Mech, so i guess my fun with Mechwarrior is staying intact.

[Lord Of DORKness]

I don't want it to be Free To Play, either.

I would much rather have it be a finished product, paid for once. I don't like the idea of paying for weapons, upgrades, etc...

Please, please don't make this F2P. I would be very happy to pay $60.00 for a copy of a finished game. The endless money pit that this thing would be in order to stand a chance in the arena is not very appealing.

I was going to buy this game the second it came out, as I am a MechWarrior fan from waaaaay back. However, if this game is F2P, I will have to pass on it entirely.

Thanks.

[GaussDragon]

http://www.videogame...in_revenue.html

[Unclecid]

i have no problem with MWO going the f2p route.

i just hope they take cues from some of the more successful western mmorpgs that have gone f2p.
one prime example of what to do and waht not to do is Turbine's DDO and LOTRO.

turbines hybrid model of get everything for a sub, go ala carte, or just pay nothing (all players can also earn store currency just by playing the game) is a great idea.

they have done well with DDO turning around a failed mmo and creating a store that doesnt seem to try and get you to open your wallet with every step.

with lotro we have an example of how not to do f2p in which with every update they add new ways to milk the cow.
such as removing previously in game features and making them store only or having store buttons everywhere.

i am hoping mwo ends up more like ddo then lotro, if it does we will have this game around a long time.

Edited by Unclecid, 15 December 2011 - 08:07 AM.

[VixNix]

I see pros and cons either way, if they charge to play its just another MMO... if they charge for upgrades then whoever has the money and is willing to spend it wins...

Games like CSS, Battlefield and others where you buy the game and play for free are good

[Rakett]

On the cheating issue...I don't see it so much as a problem with someone hacking the game code, though that is irritating. But in a F2P environment anyone with some time on their hands can jump in the game at no cost to them. Statistically speaking that probably means you end up with more griefers around. You don't need to hack code to be a nuisance in the gamescape. My concern is that the number of griefers is higher in a F2P game because of the lack of a gating cost to enter the environment. I'd like to hear the developers position on this issue and what their predictions are in that regard. If it's already been discussed elsewhere please direct me to the post. Thanks!

[Type ZERO]

Great work guys... I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with! (my credit card may not like me very much when MW:O comes out. lol)

[VEDRFOLNIR]

Type-ZERO, on 15 December 2011 - 10:50 AM, said:

Great work guys... I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with! (my credit card may not like me very much when MW:O comes out. lol)

Heh heh... you got that right Type-ZERO.

[Orayn]

It lowers the barrier to entry. I don't have to invite friends over to try the game on my computer, or desperately try to convince them to drop $50+ on a game they might not like. This ease of access makes word of mouth an incredibly powerful vector for making more people aware of the game, and a little hype at the right time can make a huge difference.

[Vile Joker]

Truthfully speaking, any game that is an MMO is going to be going the F2P route. It is the best concept for growing your player base while keeping a good incoming revenue and increasing profit margins. This game, while bing made for the players, is also a business venture for the developers. They need to make money on this game to further fund more games they want to develop. So, they need to make their market so it keeps money coming in to the point of making a profit over employee wages for time spent of the game as well as server maintenance and upgrades. The best way to do that, regrettably, is a F2P game type with the option for "premium" accounts that require a monthly amount in return for increased XP and in game money, as well as a marketplace where players can buy things that might not be available to them in game yet. The icing on the cake is having the things in the market that are market exclusive. I pray to the powers that be that there are no things like the "golden bullets" or anything like that, but maybe being able to buy equipment that was experimental at the time the game is set, or things like that. There will also more than likely be the mechbay slots and cosmetic stuff as well, but that's a given.

[Nevoeiro]

Orayn, on 15 December 2011 - 11:23 PM, said:

It lowers the barrier to entry. I don't have to invite friends over to try the game on my computer, or desperately try to convince them to drop $50+ on a game they might not like. This ease of access makes word of mouth an incredibly powerful vector for making more people aware of the game, and a little hype at the right time can make a huge difference.

Exacly one of the things I enjoy the most about F2P games.

I only ask that devs keep a fair balance between "free players vs paying players" in gameplay competitivity (example, selling exclusive OP weapons to paying player only and such).

[funnybonzo]

Haipyng, on 14 December 2011 - 05:11 AM, said:

I have one problem with the free to play model. It leaves the game wide open to cheaters and griefers. It becomes impossible to police the game because they will make another account. Dynamic IPs and proxies make it all too easy.

I'm good with the F2P concept and I'm quoting the above text to try to address this issue. There was an article I read recently concerning why cheats/hacks are so difficult to find for World of Tanks - essentially why exploits like Aimbot are useless in WoT. The long and short of it is that the "rolls to hit" that the algorithms use are all based server side, not client side. So you can download all the exploit programs you want for WoT, but they will do you no good.

Speaking as a long time WoT player, I feel the F2P method is a fantastic method for MMOs to adopt. I initially thought that going f2p was the "kiss of death" for any MMO, but almost every MMO out now has gone f2p, and been successful. Hell, even Blizzard is moving that direction now and they have made WoW f2p up to level 20. As for the whole "wallet warrior" issue, it's negligent. Sure, you can spend cashie-money to buy gold in WoT, and then you can buy that Löwe or the KV-5...but if you haven't taken the time to actually play the game and gain at least some level of skill, you're the back-berth with a huge, worthless tank that will cost GOBS of credits to repair when you get blown up. Not to mention that all the tanks you purchase with gold in WoT are non-upgradable.

In my WoT experience I have not found people who choose to purchase gold tanks/equipment to be OP. It really is down to the skill of the driver, and the skill and communication of the team as a whole.

As far as "griefers" are concerned, I've personally encountered more griefers in a paid MMO than a free one. Obviously others will not necessarily share my experience.

[Unclecid]

the amount of cheaters and griefers in a game has more to do with how the game company handles it then with the business model of the game.

a company with an aggressive stance on the subject will have far less issues then those that dont.