339 replies to this topic

[Craftyman]

People should really stop using illogical "canon"-based arguments for why the MG should remain useless. Its like they understand and accept that its worthless deadweight but want it to remain that way "because that's the way tabletop did it!!" Is really frustrating to have such illogical and timewasting arguments in a discussion so far removed from the tabletp.

I agree with OP's calculations and I've yet to see any reasonable suggestion why it should remain deadweight. In fact I would suggest additional buffs by slowing the rate of fire to 50% and raising the damage proportional to the OP's suggested dps and giving it beefier sounds so that it "feels" like a weapon that could damage a mech as well.

Edited by Craftyman, 10 January 2013 - 04:36 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

ConnorSinclair, on 10 January 2013 - 03:53 AM, said:

They should start just making the MG into a Linked MG array.

Maybe at the level of 4 Mguns?

The MG Array is an "advanced" TT rule. Not against the idea coming to the MMO just putting it in perspective.

As to why put a "useless" weapon in the game? Could be like in TT the addition of Infantry(battle Armor) is inevitable. So a place holder weapon is desired.

I played TT for 25 years or more without ever firing a MG... Don't see the logic that not buffing the maligned weapon will be the doom of the MMO... in less than 25 years! There are plenty of weapon choices in the game. The spider with 1 Energy and 2 Balistic mounts can have 1 medium and 2 MGs or by dropping the MG and ammo plus some Jump Jets you could mount a (ER) large laser.

[twibs]

I love MGs and I'll continue to use them as sideweapons in my AC/10 4X whether or not they receive buff, which they indeed need.

[Zeke Steiner]

They stealth buffed the Mgun in this patch. Finished 2 mechs off with machine guns earlier today. A red CT is no match for 5 seconds of dual Mgun fire.

[Joseph Mallan]

Zeke... A red CT has no armor.

[Viper69]

The funny thing about mgs is their ammo exploding will do more damage to the mech than a ton of ac20 ammo. In TT one ton of mg ammo without case would obliterate a mech when it cooked off. There was more points of damage per ton of mg ammo than anything else in btech. I hope its the same here.

[KerenskyClone]

I have to agree with most of what the OP said. The MG was a viable weapon in every single mechwarior except Mechwarrior online. What gives?????

I disagree about tripling its dmg, because it gives off no heat so I would go for doubling it.

I doubt any Devs will listen or really care about the MG anyway, they are all lazer & missle wh0res anyway as they have proven time and time again...

[KerenskyClone]

Fat Samurai, on 10 January 2013 - 01:47 AM, said:

Could you post the reasoning that you followed in order to end up with that build? I'm genuinely and unironically curious.

He is trolling, either that or he likes being useless to the team and dying all the time...

[Joseph Mallan]

Viper69, on 10 January 2013 - 06:27 AM, said:

The funny thing about mgs is their ammo exploding will do more damage to the mech than a ton of ac20 ammo. In TT one ton of mg ammo without case would obliterate a mech when it cooked off. There was more points of damage per ton of mg ammo than anything else in btech. I hope its the same here.

Someone pointed out that MG ammo does not in fact explodes as violently as it does on TT.

Zeke... Thanks. I will now wear my Captain Oblivious Pin!

[Boogie Man]

Joseph Mallan, on 10 January 2013 - 06:44 AM, said:

Someone pointed out that MG ammo does not in fact explodes as violently as it does on TT.

Zeke... Thanks. I will now wear my Captain Oblivious Pin!

That is because in MWO right now 1 ton of MG ammo only has 80 damage potential. In MW2 1 ton of MG ammo was 400 damage potential.

[Joseph Mallan]

Boogie Man, on 10 January 2013 - 06:55 AM, said:

That is because in MWO right now 1 ton of MG ammo only has 80 damage potential. In MW2 1 ton of MG ammo was 400 damage potential.

As it was/is in TT.

I wonder if everyone asking for more damage from MGs are remembering the damage a Ammo explosion would do to them?

[General Taskeen]

KerenskyClone, on 10 January 2013 - 06:34 AM, said:

I doubt any Devs will listen or really care about the MG anyway, they are all lazer & missle wh0res anyway as they have proven time and time again...

Because those titles didn't strictly stay with the TT damage values/fire rates, which was a good thing. Pretty much every other MW Dev team has realized that. MW2 even had pulse lasers that shot like MG/AC's, which was awesome.

http://ppc.warhawken...echbay/mw3.html
http://wiki.mechlivi...p?title=Weapons

[Deadoon]

Thomas Dziegielewski, on 09 January 2013 - 11:04 AM, said:

I'm starting work on it right now. Paul already mentioned in Command Chair.
http://mwomercs.com/...apon-balancing/

MG will become the first critical hit weapon. The LBX will get the same treatment as well.

It will be given a huge critical hit multiplier similar to what it does in TT rules.

So against armor the MachineGun will remain useless (but fun to use dammit!). But as soon as armor is gone and it starts tearing into 'flesh' it will be given a big critical hit damage multiplier.

It will literally rip apart the insides of a unprotected component.

Hope you like it.


Release Date : January 29th 2013 or so.

I have for once considered this to be one of the dumbest posts I have seen in a while from a dev.

1: The mg although it gets a damage bonus vs infantry, so do pulse lasers.
2: The mg does 1/5 the damage it can in tabletop and is the only weapon with less ammo now.
3: There are several mechs designed for close combat against other mechs which mount mg in place of melee weapons and are simply devastating in doing so if used correctly.
4: The current crit system is broken beyond belief, even more so than in TT, the ac/2 carrier was so deadly due to it's immense range and ability to crit through armor. That was it's main purpose beyond anti air from how I've seen it used.
5: did you guys not learn from the whole 3rd person debacle, jeeze... Just surprise people with this stuff, don't blurt out things that the community is already against.
6: The machine gun is known for being the highest ammo capacity for damage dealt weapon in bt, you are ******** all over that. give it the canon 20000 rounds per ton of ammo and triple the rate of fire while halving the damage, guess what, you just made the mg the exact same as canon and did the standard triple rate of fire that has been done on most other weapons.

Seriously, the mg is one of the simplest fixes the dev team can do and they have been delaying it for months.

Edited by Deadoon, 10 January 2013 - 07:20 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Deadoon
Which Mech designs feature MGs as a primary close range weapon besides the piranha?

I have never read that the Small pulse laser was put on a Mech for anti infantry purposes. I will disclaimer this with I haven't bought a TRO since SPLs were buffed v infantry(post Total Warfare). they were often referred to as an "after thought" weapon.

[Deadoon]

Joseph Mallan, on 10 January 2013 - 07:24 AM, said:

Deadoon
Which Mech designs feature MGs as a primary close range weapon besides the piranha?

I have never read that the Small pulse laser was put on a Mech for anti infantry purposes. I will disclaimer this with I haven't bought a TRO since SPLs were buffed v infantry(post Total Warfare). they were often referred to as an "after thought" weapon.

http://www.sarna.net...ut_(BattleMech)
Guess what, it was not designed with fighting anything but other mechs.

Seriously, pgi needs to fix their url parser.

Needed to find the exact page for it, but battletech total warfare, page 216, pulse lasers get a damage bonus of 2 vs infantry, except for small and micro lasers, they count as burst fire and do an extra 2d6 damage.

Edited by Deadoon, 10 January 2013 - 07:33 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

LOL In a Solaris Arena! Its a Gladiator Mech. not a field combat unit. it had that payload for the pleasure of the spectators.

[Deadoon]

Joseph Mallan, on 10 January 2013 - 07:33 AM, said:

LOL In a Solaris Arena! Its a Gladiator Mech. not a field combat unit. it had that payload for the pleasure of the spectators.

Yep, a mech design that is reportedly not flashy and was unpopular due to it being designed with combat only in mind is meant to look nice to spectators...

You have very selective reading, eh?

[General Taskeen]

Joseph Mallan, on 10 January 2013 - 07:33 AM, said:

LOL In a Solaris Arena! Its a Gladiator Mech. not a field combat unit. it had that payload for the pleasure of the spectators.

You got your answer, yet now you make stuff up. Hurr durr, for the spectators, hurr durr. No, Joseph Mallan, as one of the spectators you'd be watching 12 machine guns shredding a Mech at knife-fighting range. Your trolling fuel is running on low.

[Boogie Man]

Joseph Mallan, on 10 January 2013 - 06:58 AM, said:

As it was/is in TT.

I wonder if everyone asking for more damage from MGs are remembering the damage a Ammo explosion would do to them?

That is not really a big deal because even if the MG was brought upto 0.12 damage per bullet (1.2 dps) the damage potential is still only 240 damage (less than 400). AC2/5/10 is 150 damage potential per ton and AC20 is 140 damage per ton. LRM ammo is 324 damage per ton so thats still way above MG damage per ton even at a 1.2 dps rating. For them to implement the mg accuratly they would have to make them 0.2 damage per bullet (2dps) which would bring us upto the 400 damage TT value per ton. I really would be shocked if they bring them upto even 1.2 dps let alone 2 dps because they seem pretty determined to make them worthless vs armored sections.

The way they have mg ammo explosions listed in the game files currently is 0.08 damage x 500 explosions = 40 damage. Other ammo explosions are more variable from 0.6 to 60 damage for AC10 for example. So assuming they stick with the current setup if mg was brought upto 0.12 damage it would be 0.24 damage x 500 explosions = 120 damage ammo explosion. You better be running case!

[Joseph Mallan]

And still only used on the Games planet. Not selective read or comprehensions. No House fields it on the battlefield . Also... 12 of ANY small weapon in the game is going to be "effective". Your point is still not valid sir.

General Taskeen, on 10 January 2013 - 07:38 AM, said:

You got your answer, yet now you make stuff up. Hurr durr, for the spectators, hurr durr. No, Joseph Mallan, as one of the spectators you'd be watching 12 machine guns shredding a Mech at knife-fighting range. Your trolling fuel is running on low.

12 Small lasers do to. So do 12 SSRM, Boating in this magnitude is death by paper cuts. Solaris makes mechs for intertainmemt not warfare.