96 replies to this topic

[Bguk]

Forums, definitely forums.

[GalaxyBluestar]

TruePoindexter, on 10 January 2013 - 05:56 PM, said:

Being harsh the fact is people need to learn to play. "Lag shield" or no people need to learn to lead their targets and fire deliberately. I do agree that the requirement ideally should be removed and given some of the awesome networking I've seen go into modern games I have no reason to believe it won't be - these things just take time. The fact is though that it is hard to hit a fast moving target regardless of lag and at least for me (a west coast NA player with an average ping well below 100ms) the amount of lead required to compensate for lag is actually fairly small.

EDIT: I'd like to add that I do think the issue is real for non-NA players. However the devs have already stated they are looking into regional servers come release.

sorry but the l2ply argument results in someone else getting another ecm raven or gauss cat. the fact remains is out of the two options it's ecm that's ruined the game more than lrms. in fact lrm's are the only 600m plus weapon that's prominant. the odd ac5/ultrac5 boat perhaps, but ecm has encouraged more cq battles which were already happening too often before. lrg lasers and erppcs are rarely boated cause ac20 and srms rule. cq brawling and maxing those alpha strikes is all the game is now, your med laser ac20 combo is proof of that, you rarely find yourself fighting or taking adavntage of anyone over 500m so why have longrange weapons unless it's a gauss rifle which brawls just as potently or a weapon that can be boated to rediculous proportions like lrms? lack of diversity of mech load outs and tactics is what's killing this game it's brought it down to slugfest levels with the odd trench warfare flanking manouver. all you have to fear is lagshields and who's cq dps is higher. it's like fourmular one everyone drives a ferrari and any other car is a disvantage or an embarresement. that lack of potency for more builds in general is what broke this game.

[Aidan Malchor]

You forgot an option for the whiners. ECM isn't all powerful, LRM's aren't the end of the world. Premade vs pug isn't nearly as much of an issue as a few vocal wannabe mechwarriors would have you believe. The amount of crying on the forums is the worst part of this game.

[Corvus Antaka]

right before ECM came in and after LRM was brought to 1.6 dmg the game was in a GREAT place.

since then, it had been all downhill.

[GalaxyBluestar]

AlexWildeagle, on 10 January 2013 - 06:05 PM, said:

another amusing thread. Which do I like bettter:

1) Standing behind cover watching a sky full of missiles going back and forth, waiting. Watching heavy mechs trying to move from one cover point to another and disintegrating in less then 30 seconds to streams of missiles. Where eventually the winner is whomever has the most missiles. Where "tactics" are sitting there in an LRM boat waiting for an enemy to poke their head out.

Or

2) LRM boats now have to manuever, tag and narc actually have a point. Direct fire weapons are actually useable as mechs can manuever and flank enemy positions. LRMs have a place, but not as mech melters but as their original purpose which was to remove tons of enemy armor softening them up for your frontline mechs. Where "Tactics" now involve manuevering, flanking and cornering your enemy.

2 involves multiple mech types in roles. With #1 you might as well just design an artillery game or drop the a bomb game.

it wasn't that bad, being pinned is a tactic and it was the only time my brain was used to come round the side to flank them. if you failed to do that then forget tactical gaming. stick to in your face los pew pew like any other fps MWO cause that's where the majority is at... the dumb general public.

[Codejack]

TruePoindexter, on 10 January 2013 - 06:14 PM, said:

No I did not act like it doesn't exist. I acknowledged it though stated that the extent to which it exists is in fact overblown. I come from playing MW3 back in the day where we measured leading in mech lengths. E.G. in order to hit the average player you had to fire the length of an entire mech ahead of them to land the shot - and that was with lasers. It wasn't unusual to run into the player on really horrible internet though (think Netzero) and have to do some test shooting measuring his lead only to find out it was 3-4 mech lengths. Even the worst mech case of lag I've encountered in MWO has not broken a full mech length yet by comparison.

It exists and will be reduced over time - but it is certainly not an excuse for being unable to kill a mech.

OK, no, you are not understanding; I can have a 50ms ping, land a full volley of 36 SRMs on a shut-down mech, and it not register damage with the server.

Often, when it's really bad, it won't register turning or decelerating; those are the people you see running into walls.

There is no amount of leading that can make up for this.

[Solis Obscuri]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 10 January 2013 - 06:23 PM, said:

right before ECM came in and after LRM was brought to 1.6 dmg the game was in a GREAT place.

since then, it had been all downhill.

This ^^^

[Orzorn]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 10 January 2013 - 06:23 PM, said:

right before ECM came in and after LRM was brought to 1.6 dmg the game was in a GREAT place.

since then, it had been all downhill.

Absolutely agree. I think LRMs were in pretty much a perfect place. In fact, much of the game felt very awesome then and I was pretty optimistic about future patches, but then Artemis released, messed LRMs up, then they got even MORE messed up once they tried to fix it.

Also, ECM is just ridiculous up and down. Netcode exacerbates the issue, but even if they fixed netcode ECM would still be doing too much for too little investment.

[BerryChunks]

GalaxyBluestar, on 10 January 2013 - 06:24 PM, said:

it wasn't that bad, being pinned is a tactic and it was the only time my brain was used to come round the side to flank them. if you failed to do that then forget tactical gaming. stick to in your face los pew pew like any other fps MWO cause that's where the majority is at... the dumb general public.

mirrored sentiment.

[Serapth]

Aidan Malchor, on 10 January 2013 - 06:21 PM, said:

You forgot an option for the whiners. ECM isn't all powerful, LRM's aren't the end of the world. Premade vs pug isn't nearly as much of an issue as a few vocal wannabe mechwarriors would have you believe. The amount of crying on the forums is the worst part of this game.

Or the apologist douches, eh?

[Wolfways]

Barghest Whelp, on 10 January 2013 - 04:45 PM, said:

There's an option missing: Missiles getting their damage per missile doubled while all the other weapons were left behind.

Missile damage is 1.8 (not doubled) because you can't aim with them, while every other weapon has been massively buffed by having the ability to hit where you aim.
I'd be happy with LRM's doing 1 damage per missile if all other weapons hit random locations.

Other than the two "Artemis days" LRM's have never been OP.

[random51]

So many disgruntled Jenner drivers.

[Serapth]

Wolfways, on 10 January 2013 - 07:06 PM, said:

Missile damage is 1.8 (not doubled) because you can't aim with them, while every other weapon has been massively buffed by having the ability to hit where you aim.
I'd be happy with LRM's doing 1 damage per missile if all other weapons hit random locations.

Other than the two "Artemis days" LRM's have never been OP.

Except the LBX AC10, which should actually get a buff for exactly this reason.

[Orzorn]

Wolfways, on 10 January 2013 - 07:06 PM, said:

Other than the two "Artemis days" LRM's have never been OP.

For a while in closed beta they were. I remember being on TS3 with Bryan (or was it Garth? whatever) and he got so pissed at the LRMs that he claimed they needed a serious damage reduction. They never did that, but instead changed their arc. Back then, it was much like the Artemis bug. They had an arc of almost 90 degrees and would head shot almost every mech. You rarely died to CT deaths against them.

But they weren't very bad after that.

[Mad Pig]

It's not broke. It functions as designed.

[BerryChunks]

well, it doesn't matter. Im 12 points away from getting ELITE on commandos on my free account.

t.t

[Codejack]

Mad Pig, on 10 January 2013 - 07:19 PM, said:

It's not broke. It functions as designed.

Yea, but saying that the devs need a swift kick in the *** is rude.

[Wolfways]

Orzorn, on 10 January 2013 - 07:10 PM, said:

For a while in closed beta they were. I remember being on TS3 with Bryan (or was it Garth? whatever) and he got so pissed at the LRMs that he claimed they needed a serious damage reduction. They never did that, but instead changed their arc. Back then, it was much like the Artemis bug. They had an arc of almost 90 degrees and would head shot almost every mech. You rarely died to CT deaths against them.

But they weren't very bad after that.

Must have been before i joined CB

[Solis Obscuri]

I remember the complaints about the vertical descent path... oddly enough, I never had much trouble with them. Piloting a medium 'mech most of the time. Things were worse when they went to the high damage, crappy trajectory model - LRMs first became useless, then only good if you planted a big boat up on a hill somewhere - in which case they could do stupid amounts of damage in one shot, but they were still useless on everything else. Really, when they had the trajectory fixed and the damage scaled down to about 1.6 they were just right.

[random51]

Solis Obscuri, on 10 January 2013 - 07:35 PM, said:

Really, when they had the trajectory fixed and the damage scaled down to about 1.6 they were just right.

I think they're just right right now. Good damage if you can land them and with a Tag on my boat I can target for myself if the rest of the team is dropping the ball and/or we are out-ECM'd.

I have an stk-5m with 4xLRM15+Artemis+Tag+misc. defensive lasers and I average 600-800 damage/match, with a match breaking ~1000 damage every now and then.

Edited by random51, 10 January 2013 - 07:42 PM.