123 replies to this topic

[Hubis]

MasterBLB, on 23 February 2013 - 04:44 AM, said:

Sure.
I think the easiest fix is to increase font size by 2 points.

Yikes -- Yeah, I'm going to go ahead and blame Opera's complete lack of font antialiasing here That being said, I should be able to bump the font size up by 2 points without a problem.

[Whiysper]

Two things - one, thank you for a fantastic tool! I use this more than I play the game, I think... .

two, would it be possible to have a cost for the mech? As complex as you feel like, anything from adding the costs of all the items, through to selling off the default kit and then buying all the bits . Would make this pretty much ideal, to my mind!

Thanks again!

[Hubis]

Whiysper, on 23 February 2013 - 11:19 AM, said:

Two things - one, thank you for a fantastic tool! I use this more than I play the game, I think... .

two, would it be possible to have a cost for the mech? As complex as you feel like, anything from adding the costs of all the items, through to selling off the default kit and then buying all the bits . Would make this pretty much ideal, to my mind!

Thanks again!

Cost stuff is coming soon -- the data isn't listed anywhere in the XML, but thankfully helpful Goons compiled all of that for me, so I'm working it in for the next version.

[WANTED]

Nice tool thanks! Like others said I am missing cost total

[Hubis]

Just a heads up to anyone following the tool -- I've got a major revision coming, but I now that the tool is under heavy use I'm trying not to update the public site until it is "stable" and mostly bug-free. Thus, I've got a "staging" server set up at the following URL: http://hubis.dev.goonswarm.com/

If you'd like to see where things are going and give feedback on features before they get pushed in, give that a look. Since I use that for testing there are going to be features which are partially implemented and some known bugs, but getting some coverage in that version will help prevent issues in the "main" branch that people rely on more to be functional.

[Elizander]

It's getting better so far, though I think the sustained DPS result is a bit complicated since it is a combination of firing weapons at certain intervals and delays in order to reach the ideal number (such as firing 1 ER PPC 9 times then 2 ER PPCs on the 10th shot in order to achieve heat neutrality. I am not sure if this can be better represented by some other means.

Can you perhaps mark each weapon with a DPS : Heat Efficiency rating? Once flagged, it might be possible to list down which weapons can be used to fill out the Heat Per Second maximum of the mech by listing down weapons by DPS : Heat Efficiency rating (from highest to lowest heat first) and eliminating options to lower HPS weapons to fill out the rest. I haven't done any hard math on it yet though, but it might be possible to do it this way and list down which weapons can be used to achieve ideal sustained DPS.

Also I think the numbers should adjust for the efficiencies and perhaps add a checkbox to add/remove efficiency effects. I'm more interested in seeing DPS differences when Basic 1x and Basic 2x are applied.

Edit:

To better explain what I mean, I'll post an image of my edited version of Ohmwrecker's sheet where I've added values that I use to build mechs.



You can see that the two values DPS / HPS and HPS are the ones I am referring two when calculating what weapons are determined for sustained DPS.

Now just as an example we have this Atlas K

It has a Gauss Rifle, 2x Large Laser, Medium Laser, and Small Laser and cooling is 3.40 heat per second.

Gauss Rifle - 15 DPS/HPS, 0.25 HPS
Large Laser - 0.98 DPS/HPS, 2.15 HPS
Medium Laser - 0.94 DPS/HPS, 1.33 HPS
Small Laser - 1.13 DPS/HPS, 0.89 HPS

So the main priority for heat efficient weapons would be DPS/HPS and HPS is the value that is checked if it fits within the HPS dissipation of the mech. If it does not fit, it is discarded and then the next most heat efficient weapon available is tried out in the forumla (which in this case would be the Large Laser).

HPS Dissipation - 3.40

Pass #1 - Gauss Rifle (highest tier) 0.25 / 3.40 (accepted), Total Sustained DPS: 3.75
Pass #2 - Small Laser (second highest tier) 1.14 / 3.40 (accepted), Total Sustained DPS: 4.75
Pass #3 - Large Laser (third highest tier) 3.29 / 3.40 (accepted), Total Sustained DPS: 6.87
Pass #4 - Large Laser (third highest tier) 5.44 / 3.40 (rejected), Total Sustained DPS: 6.87
Pass #5 - Medium Laser (fourth highest tier) 4.62 / 3.40 (rejected), Total Sustained DPS: 6.87

So it will list down:

Total Sustained DPS: 6.87

Weapons for Sustained DPS:

• Gauss Rifle
  
• Small Laser
  
• Large Laser

I don't know if my logic there is correct or efficient, but that was the method I was thinking of to determine which weapons to list down for sustained DPS. This way, players will know that they can always fire these three weapons without ever overheating.



A later modification can be to add the map temperature values since these will affect HPS disspiation?

Edit #2:

I am also wondering why the Small Laser is listed as 1.00 DPS. Shouldn't it be 1.33? Come to think of it I should probably adjust the formula on this excel sheet. Anyway, despite the numbers, you get the idea. ( I think the cooldown times on my sheet are outdated)

Edited by Elizander, 02 March 2013 - 10:08 PM.

[Snib]

Hubis, on 23 February 2013 - 10:10 AM, said:

Yikes -- Yeah, I'm going to go ahead and blame Opera's complete lack of font antialiasing here

Not quite, Opera has very nice font rendering including anti-aliasing as long as you have hardware acceleration enabled.

[Hubis]

Snib, on 03 March 2013 - 08:22 AM, said:

Not quite, Opera has very nice font rendering including anti-aliasing as long as you have hardware acceleration enabled.

Good to know -- and to be fair, I've seen very similar problems on Chrome/Win7 (even though Chrome/OS X looks beautiful). The trouble I've been having is that all the "standard" methods for setting fonts/properties seems to break down on at least one of the "Big Three". If anyone has any webdev experience and knows a truly robust cross-platform solution, please let me know!

Elizander, on 02 March 2013 - 11:32 AM, said:

It's getting better so far, though I think the sustained DPS result is a bit complicated since it is a combination of firing weapons at certain intervals and delays in order to reach the ideal number (such as firing 1 ER PPC 9 times then 2 ER PPCs on the 10th shot in order to achieve heat neutrality. I am not sure if this can be better represented by some other means.

Can you perhaps mark each weapon with a DPS : Heat Efficiency rating? Once flagged, it might be possible to list down which weapons can be used to fill out the Heat Per Second maximum of the mech by listing down weapons by DPS : Heat Efficiency rating (from highest to lowest heat first) and eliminating options to lower HPS weapons to fill out the rest. I haven't done any hard math on it yet though, but it might be possible to do it this way and list down which weapons can be used to achieve ideal sustained DPS.

Also I think the numbers should adjust for the efficiencies and perhaps add a checkbox to add/remove efficiency effects. I'm more interested in seeing DPS differences when Basic 1x and Basic 2x are applied.

Edit:

To better explain what I mean, I'll post an image of my edited version of Ohmwrecker's sheet where I've added values that I use to build mechs.



You can see that the two values DPS / HPS and HPS are the ones I am referring two when calculating what weapons are determined for sustained DPS.

Now just as an example we have this Atlas K

It has a Gauss Rifle, 2x Large Laser, Medium Laser, and Small Laser and cooling is 3.40 heat per second.

Gauss Rifle - 15 DPS/HPS, 0.25 HPS
Large Laser - 0.98 DPS/HPS, 2.15 HPS
Medium Laser - 0.94 DPS/HPS, 1.33 HPS
Small Laser - 1.13 DPS/HPS, 0.89 HPS

So the main priority for heat efficient weapons would be DPS/HPS and HPS is the value that is checked if it fits within the HPS dissipation of the mech. If it does not fit, it is discarded and then the next most heat efficient weapon available is tried out in the forumla (which in this case would be the Large Laser).

HPS Dissipation - 3.40

Pass #1 - Gauss Rifle (highest tier) 0.25 / 3.40 (accepted), Total Sustained DPS: 3.75
Pass #2 - Small Laser (second highest tier) 1.14 / 3.40 (accepted), Total Sustained DPS: 4.75
Pass #3 - Large Laser (third highest tier) 3.29 / 3.40 (accepted), Total Sustained DPS: 6.87
Pass #4 - Large Laser (third highest tier) 5.44 / 3.40 (rejected), Total Sustained DPS: 6.87
Pass #5 - Medium Laser (fourth highest tier) 4.62 / 3.40 (rejected), Total Sustained DPS: 6.87

So it will list down:

Total Sustained DPS: 6.87

Weapons for Sustained DPS:

• Gauss Rifle
  
• Small Laser
  
• Large Laser

I don't know if my logic there is correct or efficient, but that was the method I was thinking of to determine which weapons to list down for sustained DPS. This way, players will know that they can always fire these three weapons without ever overheating.




A later modification can be to add the map temperature values since these will affect HPS disspiation?

Edit #2:

I am also wondering why the Small Laser is listed as 1.00 DPS. Shouldn't it be 1.33? Come to think of it I should probably adjust the formula on this excel sheet. Anyway, despite the numbers, you get the idea. ( I think the cooldown times on my sheet are outdated)

This is some great stuff. There's a lot of things here so let me mull this over and get back to you; however, I believe I *am* doing some of the things you suggest, there's just some bugs in my code that are keeping it from functioning properly that I need to shake out. Like I said earlier I am revising the "secondary stats" stuff right now, and weapon/damage is going to be a separate push because it's more complicated, but I am looking at that next so hopefully I will be able to look at this as soon as this revision goes up.

[Snib]

Hubis, on 03 March 2013 - 09:04 AM, said:

Good to know -- and to be fair, I've seen very similar problems on Chrome/Win7 (even though Chrome/OS X looks beautiful). The trouble I've been having is that all the "standard" methods for setting fonts/properties seems to break down on at least one of the "Big Three". If anyone has any webdev experience and knows a truly robust cross-platform solution, please let me know!

Well, never had trouble setting fonts via css on any modern browser. Unless you're talking Webfonts.

As to the anti-aliasing, that's not just a browser question, but mainly a question of whether - on Windows - ClearType is enabled and how it is configured. Graphics driver may play a role, too, not sure. So if you need a really identical look you'll have to fall back to bitmaps.

PS: I actually ran a quick comparison because the question was interesting. Test system was Win7 x64 with an NVIDIA card, screenshots have been enlarged by 200%:



Opera & FF look identical, IE9 differs slightly, but I'd say close enough on all. Whether you use ClearType or not is a question of preference - personally I can't stand the red and blue hues it adds.

Edited by Snib, 03 March 2013 - 05:05 PM.

[LtPoncho]

Great tool - will certainly use it again. Thanks for sharing!

[Hubis]

OK! Major update to go along with patch day.

New Data
Should include everything in the newest patch.

Menu Layout
There is now a direct link to the Mechronomicon on the landing page. I've also fixed some of the menu layout logic so that the menus drop under the main titlebar, and unfold more reasonably in general.

Stock Loadouts
Mech variants are now initialized with their stock loadout by default.

Mobility Pane
There is a new stats pane which reorganizes some existing statistics, and adds some nifty diagrams showing torso/arm firing arcs and movement/turning/jump jet speed.Note: Right now the jump-jet numbers are quit off from reality, while I try and reverse-engineer how the numbers in-game correspond to the actual physics model PGI is using. I hope to get these narrowed down by the next patch.

Weapons Pane
The Weapon/Heat statistics are all consolidated on the Weapons Pane view, and weapons statistics are not calculated until the pane is opened. This should improve performance on slower browsers, and especially on mobile devices (while using less power as well). This view is going to see some major improvements in the next update.

Cost Pane
By popular demand, I now have cost calculation in. This pane will give you a breakdown of the total cost of your build (including purchasing the stock mech) along with any upgrades. It also takes into account reusing what is on the stock mech, though it doesn't calculate savings from selling unused items (which I may add later).

Some other stuff I probably forgot.

As always, enjoy! And let me know of any bugs.

[Elizander]

The cost calculation part will be great for new purchases especially for new players! When making a guide or recommendation to a new player what mech to get, adding the cost will make it easier for them to see if they can afford it quickly or not.

Also thanks for including the stock configurations. I like having that as a base to start with.

Oh, since you brought up mobile, how do you 'drag' a weapon to a slot when using an Android phone?

Edited by Elizander, 05 March 2013 - 10:17 PM.

[MustrumRidcully]

I like this alot.

Spoiler

[Hubis]

Right now there's no way to drag/drop on Android that I know of -- that's why I've included direct action buttons everywhere as well. Oh, known issue:

Artemis Weapons mess up the cost calculator. Sorry -- I'll see if I can get this fixed.

[Elizander]

Can we have a separate maximum DPS time that factors in the incoming coolant flush feature?

[Hubis]

Yeah! Weapon stats are getting a huge revision next - I will be sure to incorporate this.

[MasterBLB]

Well,you have overcombined Hubis.
The idea to always load default mech equipment is wrong - if I'm designing a mech I'm not interested about all default crap inserted and lowered armor.Now I'm forced to act like in smurfy's lab - strip mech,max armor.One of the worst changes you've ever made.
Restore original functionality and for these who wants to work on default stock add new options in tools "Load default setup".

The rest of the changes are just awesome,especially corrected fonts ^^

Edited by MasterBLB, 09 March 2013 - 08:24 AM.

[Elizander]

I think the option to load an empty chassis and the default stock loadout can be done with a checkbox or a toggle to the side? It can load an empty chassis by default and then just click something in the side and it will ask you "Load this Mech's stock configuration? (Y/N)".

Or alternatively! Just add a button to "Strip All" on the side to remove all equipment and restore the mech to standard settings.

[McOrion]

Very nice tool!

[Hubis]

Elizander, on 09 March 2013 - 05:32 AM, said:

I think the option to load an empty chassis and the default stock loadout can be done with a checkbox or a toggle to the side? It can load an empty chassis by default and then just click something in the side and it will ask you "Load this Mech's stock configuration? (Y/N)".

Or alternatively! Just add a button to "Strip All" on the side to remove all equipment and restore the mech to standard settings.

MasterBLB, on 09 March 2013 - 04:49 AM, said:

Well,you have overcombined Hubis.
The idea to always load default mech equipment is wrong - if I'm designing a mech I'm not interested about all default crap inserted and lowered armor.Now I'm forced to act like in smurfy's lab - strip mech,max armor.One of the worst changes you've ever made.
Restore original functionality and for these who wants to work on default stock add new options in tools "Load default setup".

The rest of the changes are just awesome,especially corrected fonts ^^

Yeah, the idea was that it would be pretty easy to just click "Tools/Strip All" if that's what you want to do. I'm going to add persistent preferences for things like Skills, though, so I can add a "load stock/empty by default" option.