80 replies to this topic

[Emperor Cassius]

Fomorian, on 25 May 2012 - 04:37 AM, said:

Why balance them when they come out? The impact of the Clans was their superior tech and that was it. If they have to be the lowest bidder to invade a planet and we in the IS don't we have an advantage of numbers. We in the IS will need to come together to beat the initial tech advantage that they have once we start getting clan salvage things will start to balance out. I for one am not afraid of the coming of the clans for I know I will be fighting along side a well trained and cohesive group. So I say bring them on and let all the clans lament when they meet the 1st Robinson Rangers on the field of battle.

The game will require balance in some form. No one who is Inner Sphere will want to log into a match KNOWING they will lose. The game ceases to be fun at that point and when the fun is gone it becomes a grind until the IS catches up in a future patch. I don't know about you but I hate grinding. I stop playing a game at that point.

[Aegis Kleais]

Though independence is valuable with any pilot, the true saving grace is the ability to come together as a team.

In the event that IS tech will be played against Clan tech, in order to overcome those odds, teamwork becomes a necessity. When you have 2 people gang up on 1, they are not bringing a 2:1 ratio on them. It's a force multiplier. 2 players might be 2.3x effective. 3 players v 1 could be 4x effective. It's not a linear scale. Your chances for success AND minimizing losses depends on how well you can work together.

Against a superior force you will need superior tactics.

[Sassori]

I really wish we could vote down or dislike as well as like a post.

[Emperor Cassius]

Cruxshadow, on 25 May 2012 - 04:44 AM, said:

Let the flaming begin

No flaming, no point. I think it is more that a lot of people like lore as well as ... well winning.

[Foxfire]

This is why they need to add things like melee before the clan invasion comes.

[Fomorian]

I still say bring them on I look forward to fighting against them and collecting the salvage!

[Insidious Johnson]

What, are you saying there is a reason to fear those vat inbred refugees from beyond the Periphery? In the end they are just an IS fractured family feud faction who've failed their function and form while floundering to see it. F-that.

[Kael Tropheus]

It will be fairly easy to balance. For one, a binary is only ten mechs, versus a company of IS mechs. Thats two extra Atlases or Catapults. In addition, it will be doubtful that clan will have money assets, instead an honor system will make more sense where if the clan pilot follows zellbringin(sp?) he gets honor points, the bigger a target he kills, the more he gets. No points for multicombat. This leads for great teamwork strategy for the IS as they can lure clanners and make them fight one on one and then ambush with multiple.

Balance achieved since the only way clanners make "money" is by following code.

[Kudzu]

Christopher Dayson, on 25 May 2012 - 04:43 AM, said:

Because it is impossible to make a codified bidding system that is fair to everyone who chooses to play a specific faction. Just like it's impossible to make codified Zellbrigen combat. It's impossible to force the use of Clan Tactics on Clanners in the game thus, any attempt at balance will fail unless it was to make Clan and IS tech identical. Which while breaking Lore, I could get behind as it is a reboot. IS scientists are just better in the PGI universe and reverse engineer quicklike.

BV and uneven numbers would work just fine (and not a TT BV import, a BV system designed from the ground up to work with MWO).

[Sassori]

Kael Tropheus, on 25 May 2012 - 04:54 AM, said:

It will be fairly easy to balance. For one, a binary is only ten mechs, versus a company of IS mechs. Thats two extra Atlases or Catapults. In addition, it will be doubtful that clan will have money assets, instead an honor system will make more sense where if the clan pilot follows zellbringin(sp?) he gets honor points, the bigger a target he kills, the more he gets. No points for multicombat. This leads for great teamwork strategy for the IS as they can lure clanners and make them fight one on one and then ambush with multiple.

Balance achieved since the only way clanners make "money" is by following code.

At a 10 vs 12 point, IS will lose /every single time/.

[William Petersen]

Aegis Kleais, on 25 May 2012 - 04:47 AM, said:

Though independence is valuable with any pilot, the true saving grace is the ability to come together as a team.

In the event that IS tech will be played against Clan tech, in order to overcome those odds, teamwork becomes a necessity. When you have 2 people gang up on 1, they are not bringing a 2:1 ratio on them. It's a force multiplier. 2 players might be 2.3x effective. 3 players v 1 could be 4x effective. It's not a linear scale. Your chances for success AND minimizing losses depends on how well you can work together.

Against a superior force you will need superior tactics.

Sure, but you can't make the assumption that the IS will have the better team work, and why is it "fair" to place the burden on them of having to pull together or lose easily anyway?

All things equal (which is the point of matchmaking, to match up players of similar skill levels for balanced, challenging, fun games), 12 Clan Mechs with Clan Tech will annihilate 12 IS Mechs with IS Tech (even LosTech, though not by as large a margin). There won't even be a contest. I'd say even 2 stars (10 Clan Mechs) versus a company is still heavily weighted in the Clans' favor. But by the same token, one star versus a company is asking for an ***-whooping for the Clansmen.

Unless they add a Battle Value type system to match making so Clanners are fighting at a numerical and tonnage disadvantage, then you can expect them to win against mostly-Tech 1 IS Mechs quite easily.

Edited by William Petersen, 25 May 2012 - 05:01 AM.

[Emperor Cassius]

Insidious Johnson, on 25 May 2012 - 04:53 AM, said:

What, are you saying there is a reason to fear those vat inbred refugees from beyond the Periphery? In the end they are just an IS fractured family feud faction who've failed their function and form while floundering to see it. F-that.

Haha like your dysfunctional Uncle Bob who shows up after 50 years just as weird as when they left

[Cruxshadow]

Emperor Cassius, on 25 May 2012 - 04:48 AM, said:

No flaming, no point. I think it is more that a lot of people like lore as well as ... well winning.

I have been in WoT matches where the other team had scads of paid premium tanks when we didn't and we still kicked their butt.

Tech helps but it can't overcome bad piloting and foolish tactics.

Unless everyone is piloting the exact same mech with the exact same weapons balance is an illusion. A Jenner going against a Catapult is unbalanced but I don't hear anyone complaining that they can be in the same match fighting each other.

Edited by Cruxshadow, 25 May 2012 - 05:08 AM.

[HellJumper]

Why are we even discussing this thing here??? i mean game is not even out yet, we dont know how it will work and clanners?? thats possibly 1 year after the release and we are trying to look at the game imbalance of something that is not even out yet....

[Cruxshadow]

I like Clan over IS, I like the lore and I like their mechs. I think that the Clan mechs look better and have a bigger variety.

If you don't like Clan don't play them.

[Kudzu]

William Petersen, on 25 May 2012 - 04:59 AM, said:

Sure, but you can't make the assumption that the IS will have the better team work, and why is it "fair" to place the burden on them of having to pull together or lose easily anyway?

I'd think I'd rather see pub matches be pure tech and have the Clan vs IS be limited to planetary conquests so that the IS can make the best use of their numerical advantage.

Quote

All things equal (which is the point of matchmaking, to match up players of similar skill levels for balanced, challenging, fun games), 12 Clan Mechs with Clan Tech will annihilate 12 IS Mechs with IS Tech (even LosTech, though not by as large a margin). There won't even be a contest. I'd say even 2 stars (10 Clan Mechs) versus a company is still heavily weighted in the Clans' favor. But by the same token, one star versus a company is asking for an ***-whooping for the Clansmen.

How about a binary (10 mechs) vs a reinforced company (16 mechs)? It would only require adding in 2 more slots to the usual company vs company matches. Failing that, a star (5 mechs) vs two lances (8 mechs) ought to work after being BV balanced.

[Lokust]

I would think matching players at one star vs 2 lances would balance it decently, so in a larger game, 10 vs 16

[Aelos03]

Lokust, on 25 May 2012 - 05:11 AM, said:

I would think matching players at one star vs 2 lances would balance it decently, so in a larger game, 10 vs 16

thats bad that will mean clan mechs are overpowered and using that system to balance game is nonsense

[AtomicArmadillo]

I will have a IS mech with clan tech weapons.There will be a tidal wave of people going to clan at first and they will need someone to give them hell.As for imbalance we will have to wait and see.

[farrel wolf]

they would probobly have clan tech in short supply and massivly higher in price