Jump to content

Timidity Is Not A Tactic

Guide Balance Tactics

783 replies to this topic

#641 Darena Bryant

    Rookie

  • Knight Errant
  • 5 posts
  • LocationNew York, USA

Posted 09 January 2016 - 09:14 PM

Well, here's a question.

I'm pretty new to the game. I like long range engagements too. I use LRMs, and have tried out a mech armed with PPCs and found it to my liking. I tend to let the other mechs precede me while either firing missiles at targets that get revealed, or angling for shots with my weapons from as far back as possible.

Does this mark me as "timid"?

I often find myself getting attacked from the rear by one of the enemy mechs who seem to casually stroll past the front lines right up to where I'm firing on their teammates. Actually, strike that. ALWAYS getting attacked like that. It's as if I'm the only one anyone sees sometimes.

When I try to push forward into closer ranges, again the same thing happens. One of the enemy mechs goes, "Hey look! That mech looks like it has missiles! LET'S GET IT!!!" ...and next thing I know I have to try to run in reverse with 3 to 5 mechs all shooting at me at once. I even had a match where one of my team stood not 10 meters from where I was taking a pounding and just sorta... watched. After I was down, he killed the offending mech. He later tried to tell me how I should run towards the rest of the team when I found myself getting ganked like that.

I pilot a Catapult C4. Early into the game, I removed the LRM20s and added one LRM15, two SRM6s, and two medium lasers for variety, hoping to be able to back off some of the crazed "missile boat killers" who forget everything else to destroy me as soon as they see me. And they DO act crazed, running right into my missiles and lasers face first, no matter the size. It doesn't help that either they all have very carefully calibrated mice connected to their computers, or my Catapult is just really fragile; I take somewhere between 1 (yes one; to the torso) to 5 hits before my mech is in a heap on the ground.

So... is it bad that I want to not be in too close, yet still contribute? Is my issue that I'm not staying in the middle of the pack, and instead using the range I'm good with to do damage? I don't just take up one position and stay there (unless the shootin's good, and I'm doing damage). I also seem to be piloting a mech made out of compressed toilet paper for all the resistance to damage I have. Bright, neon orange toilet paper, for all the attention I get once ANYONE on the other team sees me.

As much as I understand I'm actually supposed to take damage as part of my being on the team and in a firefight, I literally don't seem to be ABLE to. I keep on the fringes because usually once I'm in the thick of things, the entire enemy team focus fires me... and I don't last long enough to even try to get cover or run for the rest of the team. Even if only one enemy finds me, I get wrecked in short order, and my attacks suddenly don't seem to have any effect on them.

It would be nice if everything didn't cost millions of C-bills, or quite so many hundreds of EXP points, or real money. I feel like there's an enormous, stressful slog ahead of me before I can feel like I've improved any, even while trying to focus on improving and learning this one mech. I have two more versions I need to work through after this one before I can learn the elite skills and such, after all.

But does not wanting to die really mark me as "timid"? Especially since that's almost exactly what happens when I stick my head out. In a very recent match, I got headshotted within 1 minute of the mission starting. I wasn't in the vanguard either. I was then forced to watch as the match continued without me for quite a while. I like this game, and Mechwarrior in general and the concepts and storyline... but that made me want to say a very many bad words while throwing my computer across the room.

I'm guessing I need to train more skills and upgrade my armor, but since I can only get into PuGs with people who run off and either leave me by myself no matter how I chase, or die shortly after going out of immediate line of sight, leaving me to get swarmed shortly thereafter, resulting in horrible "rewards" at the end of each battle... it's pretty discouraging.

#642 Wintersdark

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,375 posts
  • Google+: Link
  • Twitter: Link
  • LocationCalgary, AB

Posted 09 January 2016 - 11:16 PM

View PostDarena Bryant, on 09 January 2016 - 09:14 PM, said:

Well, here's a question.

I'm pretty new to the game. I like long range engagements too. I use LRMs, and have tried out a mech armed with PPCs and found it to my liking. I tend to let the other mechs precede me while either firing missiles at targets that get revealed, or angling for shots with my weapons from as far back as possible.

Does this mark me as "timid"?

I often find myself getting attacked from the rear by one of the enemy mechs who seem to casually stroll past the front lines right up to where I'm firing on their teammates. Actually, strike that. ALWAYS getting attacked like that. It's as if I'm the only one anyone sees sometimes.
This is because LRM mechs are extremely vulnerable in close combat, particularly if they lack backup weapons. Many players, then, view them (rightly so) as easy, safe kills, and they're quite eager to take that cookie.

Quote

When I try to push forward into closer ranges, again the same thing happens. One of the enemy mechs goes, "Hey look! That mech looks like it has missiles! LET'S GET IT!!!" ...and next thing I know I have to try to run in reverse with 3 to 5 mechs all shooting at me at once. I even had a match where one of my team stood not 10 meters from where I was taking a pounding and just sorta... watched. After I was down, he killed the offending mech. He later tried to tell me how I should run towards the rest of the team when I found myself getting ganked like that.
Well, you need to keep in mind - you're playing in new player land, at very likely tier 5. At that point, most of your fellow players are also pretty new, so you need to expect a lot of... poor choices, all around. Players who don't have any idea of who to play.

Quote

I pilot a Catapult C4. Early into the game, I removed the LRM20s and added one LRM15, two SRM6s, and two medium lasers for variety, hoping to be able to back off some of the crazed "missile boat killers" who forget everything else to destroy me as soon as they see me. And they DO act crazed, running right into my missiles and lasers face first, no matter the size. It doesn't help that either they all have very carefully calibrated mice connected to their computers, or my Catapult is just really fragile; I take somewhere between 1 (yes one; to the torso) to 5 hits before my mech is in a heap on the ground.
You can take a lot more than one hit; this is just math. The Catapult has a decent amount of armor (you DID maximize the armor, and move a lot forward facing, right?) and has structural bonuses too. Are you running an XL engine, or a standard engine?

When taking fire, twist to the side, spread the damage as much as you can. You want to take some to your side torsos, some to your arms as well if you can. This vastly increases the amount of damage they need to do to cripple or kill you. Defensive piloting is a very important skill to learn.

Quote

So... is it bad that I want to not be in too close, yet still contribute? Is my issue that I'm not staying in the middle of the pack, and instead using the range I'm good with to do damage? I don't just take up one position and stay there (unless the shootin's good, and I'm doing damage). I also seem to be piloting a mech made out of compressed toilet paper for all the resistance to damage I have. Bright, neon orange toilet paper, for all the attention I get once ANYONE on the other team sees me.
You definitely want to keep on the move, and limit your exposure. Don't let multiple enemy mechs see you at once, ideally you want to be "slicing the pie":

Posted Image

Quote

As much as I understand I'm actually supposed to take damage as part of my being on the team and in a firefight, I literally don't seem to be ABLE to. I keep on the fringes because usually once I'm in the thick of things, the entire enemy team focus fires me... and I don't last long enough to even try to get cover or run for the rest of the team. Even if only one enemy finds me, I get wrecked in short order, and my attacks suddenly don't seem to have any effect on them.
Your weapons and theirs have the same effect.

Quote

It would be nice if everything didn't cost millions of C-bills, or quite so many hundreds of EXP points, or real money. I feel like there's an enormous, stressful slog ahead of me before I can feel like I've improved any, even while trying to focus on improving and learning this one mech. I have two more versions I need to work through after this one before I can learn the elite skills and such, after all.


I'd recommend, as above, focusing on:

1) Limiting your exposure to one enemy at a time; slicing the pie when possible.
2) Working on defensive piloting. Be twisting while taking fire, and only facing directly at opponents when you yourself are firing. Never stare at enemies, as you make it easy to core out your CT. Try to spread damage onto your least damaged areas.
3) Stay with your team. If you're being attacked, don't back away from your team, try to bring your attackers into allies' lines of sight.
4) Understand that what others do in your match may or may not be a good idea: Most of them are newer players too.

5) If you want to learn faster, there are lots of existing units that take new players and hold training sessions. Or, a simpler method, is joining one of the existing open faction teamspeak channels, and talking to players there. There's almost always groups running who'd be glad to help teach a new player.

Quote

But does not wanting to die really mark me as "timid"? Especially since that's almost exactly what happens when I stick my head out. In a very recent match, I got headshotted within 1 minute of the mission starting. I wasn't in the vanguard either. I was then forced to watch as the match continued without me for quite a while. I like this game, and Mechwarrior in general and the concepts and storyline... but that made me want to say a very many bad words while throwing my computer across the room.
Well, you can at least rest assured that that's a very uncommon occurrence - so long as you weren't standing still. Never, ever stand still, even if you've got a good firing line, be moving all the time even if it's just back and forth. Don't let people line up good shots :)

Quote

I'm guessing I need to train more skills and upgrade my armor, but since I can only get into PuGs with people who run off and either leave me by myself no matter how I chase, or die shortly after going out of immediate line of sight, leaving me to get swarmed shortly thereafter, resulting in horrible "rewards" at the end of each battle... it's pretty discouraging.
As above, the community TS channels are probably your best bet to get competent folks to group up with for a decent chance. Though keep in mind, in the group queue you'll tend to be matched with - and against - much better opponents. This is a two-edged affair: On one hand, they'll be more accurate, and better at defensive piloting themselves. On the other, you can learn a lot more from what they do, and don't do.

#643 Darena Bryant

    Rookie

  • Knight Errant
  • 5 posts
  • LocationNew York, USA

Posted 10 January 2016 - 10:28 AM

This is in reply to Wintersdark. First off, thanks for all the support here, and for answering my many questions.

I <do> know I'm in new player land; I'm one of them after all. ^^ But it's still a bit annoying to have everyone scrambling around like they're playing Call of Duty or something.

I started out being one of those "stationary until dead" types, but I have been moving around more constantly and watching my flanks. I'm hoping to pick up more "move and shoot" skill as I play. I've noticed that my mech is pretty damned slow to start OR stop when moving though. any advice on that? I'm currently using a 260 Standard engine in my Catapult. I'd considered going XL, but the fact that people keep destroying my side units has me leery of trying that. It would just increase the chances of being put out of commission from my engine being destroyed.

I've tried playing with armor redistribution, but can't seem to get the hang of it. I'm basically playing the stock setup, which isn't quite maxed out for frontal, though nearly so. I also keep hearing about these "meta" builds. Do you know where I can find a listing of these for Catapults to at least look at them and compare to my own setup?

I tend to "slice the pie" a lot, and also to hit and run often, scoring some hits and then finding another spot of cover someplace else to shoot from. the trouble is what I described up there... when people decide they want me dead, they come in crowds. xD I usually get 3 to 5 at once, from multiple angles sometimes, though often in a swarm from one direction. And the sheer number of hits I take to the front of my mech, blocking my view and shaking everything, precludes me fighting back. Turning and running tends to be even worse, since... you know... no real armor back there.

I <do> try to keep with my team, but as new players who read "consider your mech to be a tank with legs", they tend to charge in and explode pretty fast. xD I watch the map to be sure there's at least a few mechs close by who can help, and use the chat channel to call for it when I get in trouble... though that doesn't really seem to matter.

The problem with "defensive piloting" is my using missiles. I only have two medium lasers on my mech; swinging my torso from side to side ruins my target lock, which defeats the Artemis I have on my SRMs. ...should I just have normal SRMs? <CAN> I have normal SRMs, while keeping my LRMs Artemis? Or is this a case of needing to learn direct, non targeted missile fire? I admit to mostly just aiming and shooting my SRMs anyway, but doesn't the target lock help?

Again, thanks for the information and advice, it's been very helpful.

#644 Sylow

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Fury
  • Fury
  • 194 posts

Posted 10 January 2016 - 02:24 PM

The Catapult C4 is a good LRM carrier, but using LRMs effectively requires a lot of tactical understanding.

First take a look at the mech. I would for example suggest this LRM Catapult. Some reasoning behind this:
  • The Catapult has a huge center torso, if you do at least some torso twisting, you should rarely loose a side torso. I run all my Catapults with XL engines, there's not many mechs around which protect XL engines as well as the Catapult.
  • The 300XL engine gives it some more speed, which is essential for this mechs playstyle. (More on that later. )
  • The 300XL engine is useful in many mechs around, there are not many XL engines which will see as much use as this one, when you start collecting mechs.
  • Jumpjets give you additional agility and allow you to reach good firing positions quickly. (So you also don't regret too much if you also quickly leave them again to take cover. )
  • 900 missiles for two LRM 15 launchers should be enough to last you through a fight, although not much "waste" is calculated in. You might want to consider to drop something for some extra ammo.
  • The beagle probe gives you more detection range and disables hostile ECM. Some people rather take more ammo or heatsinks instead, but i find it well worth the investment.
  • Two SMR4 on paper seem inferior to two SRM6 racks, but due to their tighter spread and faster reload time, they perform well and save you weight. 1.5 tons of ammo is a little tight again, but keep in mind that they are considered your backup weapons only.
  • For weightsaving reasons and to save money i have not selected artemis on this machine. The SRM4 is accurate enough without it. The spread of the LRM15s is only reduced by artemis if you have visual on the enemy, not if you use it for indirect fire. At the same time it would give you lower lockon times, so it still is worth considering.
  • Just like the beagle probe, the AMS can be discussed. Higher tier players generally disregard this equipment, as avoiding missiles can be done in different ways. All the same, AMS does give protection against LRMs and in lower tiers you see plenty of them. Due to the way they work, it might not strike the eye on how good they are, but the AMS tends to cut 3 missiles out of each volley hitting you and tends to destroy even more missiles if a volley aimed at a teammate behind you flies over you. Half a ton of ammo again seems tight and will certainly run out against a LRM-heavy enemy, but i found that most of the time this much suffices.

Now on how to use this mech:
  • First of all note that while LRMs have a range of 1k, they best are used at ranges of up to 500 meters. The further they have to reach out, the longer they have to fly, the more time the enemy has to take cover and the more AMS can interfere.
  • Due to this, you want to be around 300 meters behind your team. Being much closer you risk to have enemies below minimum range in no time, being much more behind you run a number of risks.
  • The highest risk is to be caught by a fast enemy mech who likes to take the LRM-boat-snack. Bear in mind, you have backup weapons, but they are not enough to fend off a fresh enemy.
  • The most important thing you have to learn with this mech is terrain and how LRMs fly. This is why most LRM assaults have me between laughing and facepalming. While they have huge launchers and plenty of ammo, most of that ammo goes to waste as they can't be in the proper position on time, launch from bad positoins and mostly rain their missiles on the cover the enemy hides behind.
  • So really, this is the same point, but it's important enough to be two points. Learn the terrain and how the missiles fly, use the speed of the big engine and jumpjets to get there on time and launch your missiles.
  • If your position is potentially exposed to flanking, don't stay there. Again use speed and jumpjets to get back to where the rest of your team protects you.
  • While your team is in good shape and you have plenty of LRM ammo, stay in the support role as much as possible. You have a huge center torso and only 10 double heat sinks, you are not set up for brawling.
  • This changes once both sides are shot up and your LRM ammo runs low. If you didn't terribly mess up, later in the game your armour is in better shape than of anybody else. Your two medium lasers and SRM4 racks have some terrible punch against people with damaged or broken armour. Thus later in the game, when mechs of both sides are shot up, feel free to not only also go melee range, but even go in front of your worn down brawlers, do some kililng and absorb damage for them, so they can profit from the protection and keep fighting.

I hope this helps a little.

Edited by Sylow, 10 January 2016 - 02:26 PM.


#645 loopala

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Bad Company
  • Bad Company
  • 1,242 posts
  • LocationDa UP of Mich

Posted 10 January 2016 - 04:57 PM

Darena Bryant the cplt c4 is very good mech but like all the mechs it has a type of play that it excels at. i found the support lrmishing to be were i was comfortable at. when you can get the 300xl for it. the 300xl is the single most used xl engine in the game (IMHO) so it is a wise investment. the first rule of survival in MWO, and almost all mechwarrior games, is keep moving, never straight at an enemy always at angles. 2nd rule is never never get more the 300m from your team mates. there are exceptions like some ballsy lights and heavy flankers and such. you are just much more effective as a team then solo.

here is the bulid i finally settled on with the c4.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...bed14ae6145fc27

i still pull it out now and again. the ssrms are kind of meh theses days but there is nothing like the satisfaction of jumping over a light while holding lock and hitting him. srm6s with the long cool down and spread are no were as effective as srm4s.

lrmishing hmmm it is the concept of fighting an lrm mech up close in the 200m range area. a good place to be as all your weapons are in range.

7 min of a very lrmishing game with a great pug lance. none of us played together before this. and yes it was a while ago.
couple of things to watch for. the lights held their locks. i ignored close mechs once the lights engaged and kept on the bigger targets. always keep your head on the big picture. don't chase squirrels. watch your range, know your range.



this next one is also and older one but i get to a good over watch position and rain down as much damage as i can. when it became time to go i bugged out. also as i still had good armor left i was able to brawl a bit and take a few with me. it was all about position.



a couple of more things. watch your out going flights. if you are not hitting even with a strong lock, it is time to change targets. don't waste ammo. there have been cplts that are just walking launchers and ammo but trust me max armor is much more important then ammo.

on a side note here is Koniving's ROFLput LRM 90 from way way back


#646 Barkem Squirrel

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Bowman
  • The Bowman
  • 1,082 posts
  • LocationEarth.

Posted 10 January 2016 - 06:28 PM

O God the ROFLput has entered the mix.

Darena Bryant
one change is chassis. I like the catapults, but find them just a bit lacking in movement and hit boxes. Now the these mediums make great missile boats wolverines, griffins, shadow hawks, Trebs and kintaros. I would add the Hunchback 4J and 4SP. They give you some speed, and quite a few have jumpjets. They also let you experiment with other types of builds. The kintaros, griffins and trebs make great missile boats as a chassis.

Now on being too timid, you are getting closer to the front, since the light pilots have figured out the big fat defenseless LRM boats are easy targets. (two shots to the back and dead) The Mediums give you some play to get close, but have the ability to run right pass that team mate that is standing there. One word of warning, you many need XL engines from 245, 255, 265, 280 and maybe a 300. That is over 20 million c-bills in engines. Remember that one mech in these chassis's has an XL. That is the cheapest way to get an XL. Then there are all the LRM5's, LRM 10's and LRM 15 launchers to by. Now The PPC is nice, but I try to run TAG to deal with ECM and BAP. One other thing, chain fire is fun, but also necessary when using 3 or more launcher. Using LRM 15 in 6 or 10 tube hard points is also a tactic to have a longer duration of LRMs hitting someone when you fire, and allowing for an increased chance of a hit and missile spread on the CT. The A1 catapult with 6 LRM 5's is a good introduction to this. One thing is I prefer to fire LRMs at less than 300 m, but 400 is still good. It is the 800 m targets that I really do not like to fire at.

#647 SQW

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Little Helper
  • Little Helper
  • 1,039 posts

Posted 10 January 2016 - 08:08 PM

View PostDarena Bryant, on 10 January 2016 - 10:28 AM, said:


The problem with "defensive piloting" is my using missiles. I only have two medium lasers on my mech; swinging my torso from side to side ruins my target lock, which defeats the Artemis I have on my SRMs. ...should I just have normal SRMs? <CAN> I have normal SRMs, while keeping my LRMs Artemis? Or is this a case of needing to learn direct, non targeted missile fire? I admit to mostly just aiming and shooting my SRMs anyway, but doesn't the target lock help?

Again, thanks for the information and advice, it's been very helpful.


Welcome to MWO Darena Bryant. Posted Image The fact you are asking questions and trying to learn puts you head and shoulder above a good deal of people here. I'd rather play with a noob who's learning than a vet refusing to play the match any way but his/her way.

You need to first determine which part of your armour is most vulnerable before twisting. If using a standard engine, you die from center torso destruction so present your sides if you can. The XL engine makes all three torso section equally vulnerable, so if your sides are in the red, then you are better off facing your opponent and hope he shoots at the larger center torso instead.

Another part of defensive piloting, try not to present the side which contains your biggest guns. A lot of mech are armed heavily on the right side so an anti-clock circle shields your best guns while you want to circle the other way if you put your biggest gun in the left torso/arm.

Okay, the SRM. SRMs (apart from the streak models) are not lock capable so your missile lock tone does nothing. Artemis system just makes the SRM shoot out in a tighter cluster so your damage is more concentrated. Feel free to torso twist in your catapult next time you get too close - fire those SRM as soon as you can line them up and don't worry about the lock tone.

LRMs. Newbies tend to fire LRM on anything with a lock tone which is great way to waste ammo. The target lock have to be sustain at the point of impact for it to track on target. If you fired your LRMs at an enemy signal at 800m and the signal disappears any time during the 10 sec travel time (mech hid behind a wall, lost line of sight etc), your LRM will just hit spot you lost lock at instead of keep tracking the enemy.

This is why some thread advocate moving up to 400-500m range if safe: your missiles have less flight time so more chance of a sustained lock; you might have visual yourself so your LRMs will definitely hit; you are lest likely to target an enemy hiding behind a tall building that blocks LRM because you can see the terrain better. Personally I hold off the LRMs until middle of the match where melee has occurred and the constant targeting from your team mates will guarantee you sustained lock.

Finally, Inner Sphere version of LRM has minimum distance of 190m so don't get TOO close.

Playing support is more than just sit back and spam LRMs at distant target locks and fortunately, it looks like you wouldn't catch this particular bad habit. =)

EDIT: On a side note, http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/212982-tactics-101-comics/ is a great thread for understanding unit tactics. Highly HIGHLY recommended.

EDIT 2: I've noticed a lot of new pilots aim like playing FPS on a Xbox. Go to setting and turn mouse sensitivity to 0.50 and 0 for smoothing and acceleration. That's a good baseline and then just adjust to your liking. Too often I see pilots that literally can't hit the side of a barn while standing still.

Edited by SQW, 10 January 2016 - 08:18 PM.


#648 Not A Real RAbbi

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Survivor
  • Survivor
  • 1,688 posts
  • LocationDeath to Aladeen Cafe

Posted 10 January 2016 - 09:22 PM

^^^

More or less, THIS.

Artemis IV FCS doesn't grant your SRMs any ability to lock-on. It SHOULD improve LRMs and SSRMs (and doesn't affect the weight/size of SSRM launchers, either!), however.

SO. Locking on to a target with LRMs can get screwed-up by wide-range torso twisting. Try something a little different. Just wiggle your nose at the enemy. JUST far enough that a center-mass shot spreads to the side torso. Wiggle them the 'dead' side, at least until it's stripped and getting orange-ish, and then go to the 'live' side. But ONLY far enough to pull the shot (and this only really works against lasers) onto the side torso. For that matter, between shots you should ANTICIPATE that, if you're still exposed to your enemy, that enemy is going to take the shot to get some kind of trade out of this. So go ahead and wiggle while cooling down, and time it to come back onto target just as the weapons are ready to fire again.

You have a radius, let's call it a CONE OF SHAME, in which the target can move in your field of view WITHOUT you losing the lock. (Also, the 360 target retention module can help with this if it's a recurring problem.) So try to manage that wiggle such that you force the laser onto the side torso without pulling the target out of the CONE OF SHAME. (Not that it's particularly shameful, just that I can't think of another 'cone' reference at the moment, and some DO find LURMING to be a shameful profession.)

The Mechwarrior Academy has that Battle Zone feature that makes for interesting opportunities to practice this, and the Running Cored exercise can help with it too. Believe it or not, the Academy isn't completely useless!

#649 Void Angel

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Marauder
  • The Marauder
  • 6,575 posts
  • LocationParanoiaville

Posted 10 January 2016 - 09:25 PM

View PostDarena Bryant, on 09 January 2016 - 09:14 PM, said:

Well, here's a question.

I'm pretty new to the game. I like long range engagements too. I use LRMs, and have tried out a mech armed with PPCs and found it to my liking. I tend to let the other mechs precede me while either firing missiles at targets that get revealed, or angling for shots with my weapons from as far back as possible.

Does this mark me as "timid"?


Hesitation due to inexperience is much different than merely being timid - and don't personalize either as a criticism. Good or bad tactics are skills that you have, not who you are; the distinction is an important one.

As for specific tactics, just hitting the forums and asking questions places you above most people, because you are studying the game to see how it works. MWO has a steep learning curve, but it's more rewarding to master because of that. In any case, I apologize for the lateness of my response - this was a drill weekend for me, so I've been away from home.

You've already gotten some pretty good advice - Ioopala's Catapult build gives you good mobility and is more forgiving of mistakes in positioning, but I would suggest An Alternative. That build keeps the speed, but doubles down on the LRMs for more sustained combat, with TAG (to increase tracking strength and cut through ECM) and a MPLaser for backup. The optimal engagement range for LRMs is about 300m - this is (if I recall correctly) the distance at which LRMs change from their high, arcing flight path to a flatter (though still arcing) trajectory. From this range, all most enemies can do is eat the missiles, which blind and shake them, while your own team take advantage of their inability to defend themselves by cutting them a new smile. With lasers. In general, you should position your LRM boat near your team's Assaults and let them help you punish anyone who tries to harass you - don't snipe or harass from extreme range.

If you get caught by a light, make sure to hit R, then backpedal and turn with them - once they run past your torso twist range, change the direction of your turning and twist to the other direction to re-acquire. So, if your attacker is circling to your left (counterclockwise,) you'd back up, turn left, and twist your torso left; if he got beyond your torso twist range, you keep backing up, turn to the right, and twist to the right until you can see him again. This minimizes the time he can spend smacking you in the back, and allows you to shoot him in the legs some more. Always shoot Light 'mechs in the legs. Regardless, if you get caught in the open, you're usually in trouble, particularly if it's more than one attacker - reconcile yourself to this reality and don't take it too hard. Just try to stay with the team, and close to the middle of the group so you can't be culled.

I've actually written another guide on how to more closely cooperate with teammates who aren't too communicative, entitled Follow the Fracking Atlas. The title is evocative, if nothing else, and I'm in the process of updating it. Perhaps it might help you as well. Finally, along with SQW, I strongly recommend Tactics 101, an extremely accessible and accurate resource - it's truly a superb guide with which I had nothing to do.

PS: the Academy is a great resource for learning the basic mechanics of the game, and the piloting skill challenges give you C-bills!

#650 Colonel Jaime Wolf

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Death Star
  • Death Star
  • 127 posts
  • LocationPhilippines

Posted 11 January 2016 - 12:20 AM

I'm really enjoying the tips here. kudos to the contributors!

Another thing I'm real happy about is the bunch of new players who've come in since STEAM launch. I've played this game non stop since it came out and I remember a time when it was just lonely Battletech players who just want a decent mech simulator that was faithful to the fun board game.

From where I'm looking, things are really lookin great. Mostly because the devs are putting a big focus on game balance and fun.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

My favorite points from recent suggestions:

How Not to Be Timid

1. Stay on Top of the Fight

The mech you are in the mood to play can do well in a match if you know where to make its strong points come out and shine.

This is why I tend to toss the whole metamech builds out the window and just go with solid designs that work for me and I enjoy playing. But I digress...

To accomplish this, you need to know what your build is good at and then constantly find out where you will be most useful during the course of the fight.

I spend a lot of time looking at the mini and big map and not just following where most guys are bunching up. Communication is a huge help because more often than not, a bad plan executed well is better than no plan at all.


2. Get involved with each fight. Don't just "jump in, die, find another match"

I seem to get more out of this game when I'm not playing joining matches just because I got free premium time.

I sometimes save memorable games on Shadowplay and re-watch the fun matches. I even upload the occasional really awesome battles on Youtube because I got such a kick out of it.

Make new friends, try to join groups when your time allows it.

Have fun!

#651 Otto Mandela

    Rookie

  • Survivor
  • 7 posts

Posted 11 January 2016 - 12:19 PM

Nice tips. Now we just need people to follow them... I had to ditch my 2PPC/LRM40 Timby to get some Small pulsers for the annoying spider that shows up every now and then because the scouts won't cover my backside. Larges just aren't the same as the lightning cannons. Dohva Wolf will be missed...

Edited by Spartan X51, 11 January 2016 - 12:21 PM.


#652 Void Angel

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Marauder
  • The Marauder
  • 6,575 posts
  • LocationParanoiaville

Posted 11 January 2016 - 02:28 PM

Heh. Well, the Light's job is more to find enemies. If they can eliminate the enemy's scouts, that's good, too, and once the general melee has started they should hunt down other lights and counter their harassment attempts, but that's not their primary role - so they're not really going to be around during the preliminary fighting where you might be out by yourself firing. Besides, why not just paste the spider with ERPPCs? They hate taking 10 damage in chunks even more than they hate pulse lasers, and you've got the heat capacity for it.

PS: do you have a microphone headset? Using VoIP to tell lights you need help with another light helps most of the time.

#653 Otto Mandela

    Rookie

  • Survivor
  • 7 posts

Posted 14 January 2016 - 10:39 AM

You make a good point, but nobody answers my calls when I start getting hit. Even when I'm with the other LRM mechs. It'd be really nice if the scouts would mark other scouts with narcs, or just counter their ems. Then I could blow them to small bits and the scouts could do their job uncontested. In the meantime I'll switch back to PPC and use the fear factor of getting hit in the face with lightning to scare off the little buggers like you suggested.

#654 Mannson

    Member

  • PipPip
  • Moderate Giver
  • 39 posts

Posted 14 January 2016 - 11:49 AM

What is also disturbing is the lack of hitting R when fighting enemy, especially when brawling. It's like people don't want those backline lurmers to lob missiles and deal shared slice of pain xD

But is it better to be timid or foolishly bold? Sure, a dedicated LURMER may seem like a coward, but good lurmer do take their hits and if anything, attract attention of a wolfpack. When I'm piloting a mech capable of dealing with light dancing, I do try to go and help our backliners (or frontline assaults).

I think the current "timid" peekaboo meta reared its ugly head due lack of cooperation, atleast in these tiers I fight in where most people seem to gun for personal glory

#655 Void Angel

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Marauder
  • The Marauder
  • 6,575 posts
  • LocationParanoiaville

Posted 14 January 2016 - 01:38 PM

Well, the hide-and-peek meta (which is getting shaken up a bit; I have hope) evolved from the ability of players to put large amounts of damage downrange. This began with the advent of the Highlander (the original one, not the IIC.) Suddenly, players who had been limited to the Cataphract for serious jump sniping tactics now had an Assault class jump sniper available - one with a bunch of the appropriate hardpoints all on one side of the 'mech, and an Assault's armor and durability. No longer was jump sniping balanced by the ability of brawlers and dakka to bring much larger 'mechs. From day one, the veterans of Mechwarrior 4's competitive scene re-implemented their old tactics and the Poptart Era was upon us. Even after the jump meta was curbed, players were still used to stand-off weapons, and the state of the game was such that they were inadvertently pushed toward long-range builds. Brawling was still doable, but it required more skill and cooperation to be successful - and if option B counters option A, but requires significantly more skill to implement, it's only better than option A if you're a machine. Then came the Clans, with extreme damage potential (and commensurate heat inefficiency) at long range, and you've got an environment that tends to punish solo players for being exposed. This is why you see players react so strongly to relatively minimal damage - the game has trained them to subconsciously view any damage as an immediately lethal threat.

On the subject of LRM locks, there are a few main reasons you don't see people getting locks for you. First, at lower tiers they're going to just get flustered, particularly if they're taking a lot of screen shake or brawling. Folks forget, is all. Another is that in order to maintain locks, they have to maintain line of sight - see above, re: massive damage. They might also be trying to keep track of a specific enemy - a heavily damaged 'mech who ducked out of sight to protect itself and will re-engage when it thinks you're distracted. In general, YOU should be getting most of your locks in many circumstances. Optimum LRM range is ~300m, where travel times are minimized and the enemy doesn't have time to react and hide. Of course, this requires some means of keeping him from running up and face-hugging you to death, so you'll typically engage from farther away and behind your front line.

#656 PigsinBlankets

    Member

  • Pip
  • Bridesmaid
  • 15 posts

Posted 15 January 2016 - 02:37 AM

View PostSpartan X51, on 14 January 2016 - 10:39 AM, said:

You make a good point, but nobody answers my calls when I start getting hit. Even when I'm with the other LRM mechs. It'd be really nice if the scouts would mark other scouts with narcs, or just counter their ems. Then I could blow them to small bits and the scouts could do their job uncontested. In the meantime I'll switch back to PPC and use the fear factor of getting hit in the face with lightning to scare off the little buggers like you suggested.


Most light pilots wont be that worried about your PPC, they'll be darting around you at speed scraping you with SPLs or MLs or finding the red bits with sustained MG fire.
A competent light pilot who knows the maps can get through your front lines without being seen (ECM or not) on most maps - particularly on Tourmaline, Alpine, Mining Collectitve or Frozen City, on HPG its a bit more difficult, but still possible. They'll be working out your location by watching your missile flight, missiles like lasers are advertisements for your location so if you are not moving you will get jumped. If you are to far back from the pack they'll strip you to pieces before you can get back to the rest of your team, so keeping closer to the rest of your unit (not in the brawl - but close to the second line) is the best deterrent to being jumped by lights. A light mech pilot particularly (but any mech pilot in general) should never choose a fair fight.

Edited by Asrael999, 15 January 2016 - 02:39 AM.


#657 Tim East

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Shredder
  • Shredder
  • 1,422 posts

Posted 15 January 2016 - 06:01 PM

So, on the titular topic, I just got out of a match on Terra Therma in my not very TT friendly Jenner IIC. Now, understand that this is a mid to long range skirmisher/harasser build, sporting an XL 295 and 2 ERPPCs. The team starts working up one ramp to fight the enemy, who aggressively seized the center caldera. So, I think to myself, "Ok, no big deal. I'll roll up the ramp and poke from the bridge one entrance clockwise," since my Jenny is really good at hull-down poking. I go up there and tangle with a Blackjack laserboat passing by that entrance on the way to the fight at the other ramp, easily dispatching him. I then peek into the caldera and tag an LRM-boating assault (I think a Highlander) only to find my reverse doesn't work! Oh no!

Spinning around rapidly, I jump right off the bridge entirely to escape return fire, damaging my legs some. I circled back around to discover that surprise, surprise, our entire idiotic assault lance (plus a couple heavies) was just standing there on the bridge, just eating LRMs for breakfast in the one place on the map they can reliably get hit with them from the caldera. I'm thinking, "Ok, they're gonna push in." Nope. Three of them stand there and get destroyed, and the other three go back down from the bridge. So then I think, "Ok, they're gonna do a firing line, let me pull the enemy toward us." I hop up to the bridge and tag an oncoming Atlas until my heat meter is full, and when I try to back up, oh look, the reverse doesn't work. Guess who? It's our side's Atlas standing behind me LITERALLY USING ME FOR COVER. Like I'm going to be able to meat-shield more than his legs any way, right?

Anyway, at that point the enemy team made a concerted push and I bailed off the bridge again. As my unfortunate and incompetent teammates died, they finally performed the minor service of holding the enemy's attention while I continued to wail on them with my dual PPCs. I wound up in a running battle with the remainder of the enemy team by myself, shoot, run, cool, lather, rinse, repeat. Took out a Stormcrow and an Arctic Cheetah, but one badly-damaged skirmisher does not much of a challenge make. I wound up dying to LRM fire from a nearly fresh Stalker.

The moral of the story? Follow the Fracking Atlas, don't let the Fracking Atlas follow you.

#658 Void Angel

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Marauder
  • The Marauder
  • 6,575 posts
  • LocationParanoiaville

Posted 26 November 2016 - 08:25 PM

Tee-hee.

#659 Wintersdark

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,375 posts
  • Google+: Link
  • Twitter: Link
  • LocationCalgary, AB

Posted 26 November 2016 - 09:15 PM

Required reading.

#660 Puppy Monkey Baby

    Member

  • PipPipPip
  • 71 posts

Posted 27 November 2016 - 10:11 PM

I live in a giant bucket.





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users