214 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

I have it on good authority that most of the human race cannot chew gum and walk at the same time.

I guess we need to stop walking, so that gum chewing becomes easier for everyone.

[IceSerpent]

Death Mallet, on 20 January 2013 - 08:38 PM, said:

That's why things like:

3rd person view
Non-throttle movement

and other unpopular features are probably going to become a reality at some point or another.

That's going to upset a lot of people, but the truth is many of those people will still come back. And the number of people they lose due to those decisions will be dwarfed by the size of the player base they gain.

You grossly underestimate how strongly "hardcore folks" dislike this stuff. If it gets implemented, PGI is highly likely to see a mass exodus on the same day and people won't even think about ever coming back.

Just my $0.02.

[willrnlds]

IceSerpent, on 21 January 2013 - 10:52 AM, said:

You grossly underestimate how strongly "hardcore folks" dislike this stuff. If it gets implemented, PGI is highly likely to see a mass exodus on the same day and people won't even think about ever coming back.

Just my $0.02.

Agreed. I already think the game is way over simplified. Where are my controls for battlegrid symbology/range/contrast/brightness/background? Where are my controls for selecting among friendlies to keep an eye on? Where are my controls for slewing my field of view to look around? Where are my controls for cycling through enemies vs closest vs under reticle, etc?

I've got 50 buttons under my fingers with my hotas, and another 40 on a pair of multi-function displays. They feel pretty unused.

I play DCS: Warthog though, and that game has something like 300-400 controls to bind, so my sense of scale may be off.

[willrnlds]

Also, where are the controls for slaving your arms to torso, instead of the default slaving of torso to arms? It'd be nice to have the choice, when you're trying to line up an alpha. Slower arm speed, but better alignment.

Also, I think we should have to spend 5 minutes starting up the fusion reactor, programming radio frequencies, and getting satellite navigation linked up. (j/k that was a little bit of DCS humor there)

[Ricama]

Deamhan, on 20 January 2013 - 09:47 PM, said:

The fact that it is a 10 year old game that is still going strong despite its steep learning curve and its unforgiving nature speaks volumes to its worth.

Keep in mind 10 years ago you had a single player mode that started out with you walking around for a couple of minutes before you encountered *gasp* some underarmoured vehicles! Here you get to walk around for 30 seconds to a minute before you run into some highly skilled players in custom mechs if you went the wrong way. While I agree that this game is not learner friendly phase 3 will address a lot of that (letting new players play bumpercars in peace.) Giving new players a 3rd person crutch just to take it away is bad. Leaving 3rd person in the game is bad. Throttled movement and torso twisting are powerful gameplay tools and once learned you'll wonder how you ever did without them.

[Kraven Kor]

TU-TOR-EE-AL

[Korbyn McColl]

To the OP:

One of the things that keeps us coming back to MWO is the fact that you have to learn to handle a mech to be any good. We don't want another Call of Duty style game. And we are the ones paying PGI regularly, so they are not likely to change that. Especially since they are cut from the same cloth as us...being long time Mechwarrior/BattleTech fans.

My suggestion? Hang in there. You will get the hang of it, and once you do, you will learn to love it.

[Carnivoris]

The second those things go in is the second this stops being a Mechwarrior title. I don't care what you think is "market viable" or however you've described this garbage in your head but if and when 3rd person view or non-throttle controls go in, A LOT of people will stop playing.

How about this? Why don't you actually try to LEARN how to pilot your mech without these crutches? Plenty of us do it. It sounds like you just want to play a 3rd person deathmatch shooter. That's not what Mechwarrior Online is. That's not what it should ever be.

This is a simulator. Do you go onto flight sim message boards and tell them that their airplanes need to be dumbed down? No, of course not. If you did, the players there would eat you alive.

Same difference. This is a mech sim. Learn to play or ****.

[Adridos]

Ricama, on 21 January 2013 - 11:05 AM, said:

Keep in mind 10 years ago you had a single player mode that started out with you walking around for a couple of minutes before you encountered *gasp* some underarmoured vehicles!

*cough*Original Mechwarrior a game from 24 years ago threw you right against a Jenner of the same quality as was yours. No tutorial, texts, or controls definition.*cough*

[Draco Harkins]

Death Mallet, on 20 January 2013 - 08:38 PM, said:

It's a tough game to learn to play. Certainly takes a lot more coordination and skill than most other games on the market.

I think I've got a little over 400 games in from jumping in and out at various times since closed beta. . . I'd say I'm definitely still learning basics.

That's just too steep a hill for new players to climb. I think there are going to have to be some changes if PGI really wants to get the player base to support this game revenue-wise.

That's why things like:

3rd person view
Non-throttle movement

and other unpopular features are probably going to become a reality at some point or another.

That's going to upset a lot of people, but the truth is many of those people will still come back. And the number of people they lose due to those decisions will be dwarfed by the size of the player base they gain.

I actually think it does a pretty good job of providing Battletech feel right now. Obviously a lot of work left to be done, but they're on the right track and light years beyond where they were when I first tried it out in closed beta.

I'd honestly rather see some 3rd person view just so I get to look at the mechs more. . . I feel you're so busy playing you don't really get to see much of the environment/models right now and that would be pretty cool to see.

Anyway. . . just a little future prediction.

No. Your own personal desires or inclination shouldnt overrule the Devs vision or the lore that came before sorry. This isnt gundam. You want to play mechs with third person view? Go play that "thing" called Mech Assault. *shivers* Or try Hawken, thats what i say to new guys that whine and whine about how dificult this is. AGAIN ill share an oldie from the "hardcores" "Not everyone can be a mechwarrior" it takes time, coordination and will to learn, if you dont have that no matter third person view or ANYTHING ELSE in that matter that will make you good at this game. And btw i have MUCH more then 400 drops op and you dont see me waving that around like a badge of honor.

I never saw a community that didnt respected the most elder and loyal fans as dirt and garbage as this community when the "hardcores" (filthy name) are the ones that kept this IP going for ages while you were play cod's and Gods of war. We EARNED the right to say something, the new members wouldnt HAVE this game if we didnt kept it alive. So say thank you and move along.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Really..huh...guess some of you are blind, there's a message directly under the Hero Mech adverts that says..

DOMINATE THE BATTLEFIELD! MECHLAB+CUSTOMIZATION*EARNING C-BILLS FASTER*WEAPON & COMBAT TACTICS!

And directly under THAT is a big blue button that says...

VISIT THE TRAINING GROUNDS NOW!

Not the best tutorial out there, I admit that, so does PGI because they've said they're working on actual ingame tutorials, but you know, that IS right there on the front end, it's kind of hard to miss...well...I thought it was kind of hard to miss, I had no idea that MWO was drawing in so many of the blind player base, who knew?


The OP, after 400 drops, THINKS he's gotten the basics down. I had those for MWO after my first couple of drops, mainly due to learning the differences in how MWO does the mechanics as compared to how previous MW titles did them, just had to figure out those little differences..twist speed, convergence of weapons based on location, how JJ worked, basic little things that I did without thinking about. Some things I had right away without needing to drop, min range on PPCs and LRMs, things I already was aware of from TT rules and knowing how IS tech works compared to Clan tech, and just reading the CB forums before I did a single drop so I could see how MWO varied from the previous titles. I know, I know, I'm a freak, I READ the material that's there before I play, I read the old MW2 manual from cover to cover while the game was installing, all 200+ pages of it, same as I did with all the games I had back then. Today it's rare to find a 'manual' included with a game and those are usually just how to install the game blurbs...but there's usually LOTS of information about any game you are looking at ONLINE! Want to know how to play EVE and do well from the getgo? Get on the internet, Google it, you'll get an list of things to do and what order to do them in, how much time they'll take, what you need, what you'll deal with, everything and anything, it's there, on the internet. Same goes for MWO, the MWO SITE has the training videos on it, there's a Welcome section of the forum for new people, basic instructions in various places on the forums, I mean, seriously, all the information about how MWO works, how to play, weapon stats, engine stats, chassis types and what's best for what, it's ALL on the MWO forums and the front of the game takes you DIRECTLY TO THAT INFORMATION!

However, as we can clearly see from the evidence before us, most of the new comers to the MWO community are blind and unable to see that material. I'm not real sure how PGI can overcome this problem, but I'm sure they'll figure something out.

[Bagheera]

Wait. There are people who have problems with throttle control? That's a pretty basic function. Anyone who's played any tank/airplane/mech sim, pretty much ever, should have no problems with throttle control after a few matches.

[armitage]

The same people who argue that having 3rd person view will make for an easier learning curve will be the same people who would complain after 3rd person view got implemented when they die because they would still a ) run off by themselves b ) not use cover and c ) not communicate to their teammates as to what they see or need. It might keep them getting stuck by running into objects and making them an easy kill, but it won't make them pay attention to whats going on beyond what they're shooting at, too many people stop thinking an get tunnel vision.

Edited by armitage, 21 January 2013 - 12:21 PM.

[Bromineberry]

willrnlds, on 21 January 2013 - 10:59 AM, said:

Where are my controls for slewing my field of view to look around?

Can't you do this with the mouse when you hold down the left ctrl button?

[MeltedSnowgirl]

Bagheera, on 21 January 2013 - 12:13 PM, said:

Wait. There are people who have problems with throttle control? That's a pretty basic function. Anyone who's played any tank/airplane/mech sim, pretty much ever, should have no problems with throttle control after a few matches.

If someone doesn't know how to control something like that, I'm afraid to be on the road IRL with them... Since it's somewhat similar to a gas pedal. Push down on gas, go forward, push it more, go faster, ease off on it, go slower..hit brake (x) stop. S is reverse...

A mech is just bigger, thumpier and has guns...

I wish I had a mech in traffic...

[Roughneck45]

Death Mallet, on 20 January 2013 - 08:38 PM, said:

That's why things like:

3rd person view
Non-throttle movement

and other unpopular features are probably going to become a reality at some point or another.

I really hope not, because those 2 things are two of the biggest reasons Mechwarrior is Mechwarrior.

This game has always had a steep learning curve, that is the beauty of it though. Its the little things that seperate a good pilot from a great pilot.

Its mostly aim that seperates a bad pilot from a decent one, not throttle and first-person.

Edited by Roughneck45, 21 January 2013 - 12:57 PM.

[Oy of MidWorld]

Ugh, we've been over this, haven't we?

[Jacmac]

Wasn't there a poll on 3rd person that was like 90% against? Does anyone think PGI is so stupid that they would consider implementing 3rd person and upset 90% of the player-base?

[Kraven Kor]

Jacmac, on 21 January 2013 - 01:06 PM, said:

Wasn't there a poll on 3rd person that was like 90% against? Does anyone think PGI is so stupid that they would consider implementing 3rd person and upset 90% of the player-base?

There are some folks who seem to think that if they just flood the forums with constant requests and arguments about this, that they will create the illusion of consensus, and PGI will fall for it.

That's my theory at any rate.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Well Kraven, that method does work with Blizzard in regards to WoW, so I guess they feel it will work here as well. So far, PGI has been pretty good about keeping forum whines from setting their goals unless there's actual hard data that PGI themselves collected that supports it.