81 replies to this topic

[yashmack]

ELO isnt going to fix pug stomping but its going to limit its impact on new players
according to the Devs every new player will start with an ELO score of 1300, a bit less than half the max 2400 score
as you play matches this score will increase or decrease
There will be a bit of pain the first few matches but it should then more closely match you to others at your level of experience and skill

[SlXSlXSlX]

hey now, stick to the opening point. You want to slander the poster instead of the post? Where does that get us...

Team Leader, on 22 January 2013 - 09:22 PM, said:

I play solo the majority of the time. It's awful. The rare matches where I do try to find teammates are a lot more fun. Why don't you try having fun for once, Six? Instead of complaining about how un-fun this game is because of groups.why don't you TRY ONE OUT.


I barely used the website before I became a founder, actually.

But, I thought you said most people pay after they play in premades, not before...

[M0oP0o]

Mr Mantis, on 22 January 2013 - 09:20 PM, said:

Your fears are indeed warranted, so far the dev team has been pretty quick to counter similar abuse. It will be interesting to see how the system is implemented.

I don't know about how well the devs can counter this potential abuse. So far it looks like like they mostly rely on players reporting behavior (and as the game is not remotely bug free this can't be without false positives). If a premade team wants to stomp they are likely going to find a way. If its something as simple as managing team ELO scores then I can't see a way to stop them (how do you stop some people from losing?). This would be even worse if the teams have their own stats separate from the individual members as a team could simply do one round in a team and another as a pug (or even at the same time with 2 mechs).

I have thought of this for all of 1/2 an hour and I can already think of multiple ways of manipulating this system.

[GrabbleRus]

SlXSlXSlX, on 22 January 2013 - 09:00 PM, said:

Been awhile MWO. How are things?

Saw a thread today on your forum which eluded to the idea that 12v12 will be structured similiarly to the current 8v8 system, in that solo players will be used to supplement empty slots in matches between premades.. the example was 12 man premade vs a 4 man, with 8 random players. Can this possibly be true? Solo players... premades.... projected to still be toe to tow how ever many months away the 12 v 12s are? Q n A 30 seems to elude to that idea.

Is the theory that you need to placate the already paying masses, lest you lose them? It seems like this game will always be premades farming pubs, if this is the intended long term solution to having less than 12, and matching versus 12 man premades.

Assumption: Individuals in premade teams, are more likely to be paying customers. (maybe that is inaccurate??)

Sidenote: Saw a poll where 97% of forum posters thought the current premade system is just fine. That poll is a month or older now so, perhaps the mass opinion has changed. What I take away from that is, you will never win a premade related argument on these forums. This forum is by and large full of supporters of the current state of game. I am not saying "Don't waste your breath". More so I am saying, you are wasting your breath arguing against pub farming on this forum.

TL DR: Are solo-players playing MWO effectively fodder for the individuals who are currently considered "paying customers".... assuming said paying customers comprise the majority of premade teams?

This is called paranoia. And bad enough to completely cloud your ability to think logically. Lol'd hard after reading about "paying=premade" idea. Not even talking about the fact that it's not a p2w game.
And yeah, i'm pugging last month. With K/D ratio from 5:1 to 10:1 depending on luck. So it's just not your game. Find yourself something else.

[Roland]

Most times when a team gets steamrolled, it's not because they were randoms facing a pre-made team.

It's because they were randoms facing other randoms, and the other randoms had one or two good pilots.

[SlXSlXSlX]

So the replies amount to....

1. Join the dark side, structure yourself in such a way as to take advantage as well, its fun.
2. Or, go play something else
And/Or
3. ELO will fix all. (based on assumption and speculation)

Roland, on 22 January 2013 - 09:33 PM, said:

Most times when a team gets steamrolled, it's not because they were randoms facing a pre-made team.

It's because they were randoms facing other randoms, and the other randoms had one or two good pilots.

Please do not present your opinion as fact unless you have something factual to back it up. Otherwise, it simply means nothing.

Edited by SlXSlXSlX, 22 January 2013 - 09:36 PM.

[yashmack]

Roland, on 22 January 2013 - 09:33 PM, said:

Most times when a team gets steamrolled, it's not because they were randoms facing a pre-made team.

It's because they were randoms facing other randoms, and the other randoms had one or two good pilots.

I agree with this
most of the time when I roll with a pug its a 50/50 shot at winning
most of my losses happen when everyone scatters to fight their own battles and no one helps the others in their team
the other team will pick us off one by one as they worked together
sometimes the other team will do the same as us and then it becomes an interesting brawl and comes down to those one or two good piplots

[M0oP0o]

Roland, on 22 January 2013 - 09:33 PM, said:

Most times when a team gets steamrolled, it's not because they were randoms facing a pre-made team.

It's because they were randoms facing other randoms, and the other randoms had one or two good pilots.

Or as I have seen many times, an combination of disconnects, Death by override, scattering of teams, team make up (I am looking at you dragons with nothing but flamers and MGs) and to some extent skill difference.

Edited by M0oP0o, 22 January 2013 - 09:36 PM.

[Merky Merc]

Is there evidence that all non paying players only play solo?

Is there evidence that all paying players only play with groups?

Or is there evidence that disproves both of these?

I'll go with option 3, if this thread was meant to make a point you shouldn't have used easily dismissed "points". Playing this game solo is very similar to playing just about any other online shooting type game ever solo, it's miserable and 94% of randoms have no idea what they're doing. It's just more noticeable in this game because very little is intuitive and very little is explained.

[yashmack]

Merky Merc, on 22 January 2013 - 09:39 PM, said:

Is there evidence that all non paying players only play solo?

Is there evidence that all paying players only play with groups?

Or is there evidence that disproves both of these?

I'll go with option 3, if this thread was meant to make a point you shouldn't have used easily dismissed "points". Playing this game solo is very similar to playing just about any other online shooting type game ever solo, it's miserable and 94% of randoms have no idea what they're doing. It's just more noticeable in this game because very little is intuitive and very little is explained.

I pay for this game, ive got 30 days of premium time waiting for me when i get home and ive bought a couple mechs with MC including a hero mech
I play in premades on occasion but the majority of the time im pugging

[Team Leader]

yashmack, on 22 January 2013 - 09:40 PM, said:

I pay for this game, ive got 30 days of premium time waiting for me when i get home and ive bought a couple mechs with MC including a hero mech
I play in premades on occasion but the majority of the time im pugging

Clearly you are teh premaed scum!

[yashmack]

you know it
im coming for your pug blood...

[SlXSlXSlX]

Individual testimonials are, individual. Some solo and pay, some premade and never spend a cent, but if you had to assume the majority do one or the other, which would you assume. Outliers exist within every stat.

Anyways, as I state at the top, I have 0 expectation to convince any of you of anything. If week one of open beta did not prompt an immediate premade be gone patch, i am doubtful anything will. I am glad I was not there to see it personally, 8 man premades versus new players... I'm sure it was ugly.

Every game forum has this.. a few point out big issues, and the adament fans dismiss them en mass.

Anyways it just surprised me I thought they would realize the profit potential of not treating new players like fodder. That should be a Q n A answer...

Q: Are solo players fodder for premade teams?

A: If you are not in a premade, you are fodder for them. Please download teamspeak, or move along.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Eisenhorne, on 22 January 2013 - 09:04 PM, said:

Solo players are NOT effectively cannon fodder for premades, they are generally just worse players.

I'm sorry to say, but anyone who gets less than 100 damage, unless they are piloting a spider, is just a bad player, or a very new player.

I forgot, netcode is a lie and lagshield doesnt happen

[Bagheera]

SlXSlXSlX, on 22 January 2013 - 09:00 PM, said:

TL DR: Are solo-players playing MWO effectively fodder for the individuals who are currently considered "paying customers".... assuming said paying customers comprise the majority of premade teams?

TLDR: No.


Long version: False premise is false. Set in bold for your convenience.

Edited by Bagheera, 22 January 2013 - 09:56 PM.

[Solis Obscuri]

Protip: You don't need to give PGI money to form a group.

[SlXSlXSlX]

Founders arging that they personally KNOW premades are not mostly comprised of paying customers... has a humor all to itself.

**This statement in no way generalizes all founders, but rather refers specifically to those who raise points in this thread, which lack emperical support.**

[Team Leader]

SlXSlXSlX, on 22 January 2013 - 10:04 PM, said:

Founders arging that they personally KNOW premades are not mostly comprised of paying customers... has a humor all to itself.

**This statement in no way generalizes all founders, but rather refers specifically to those who raise points in this thread, which lack emperical support.**

Then give support that grouped players are all paying, with "empirical support"

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

SlXSlXSlX, on 22 January 2013 - 09:34 PM, said:

Please do not present your opinion as fact unless you have something factual to back it up. Otherwise, it simply means nothing.

that goes with the premades pugstomping thing too. According to the devs you arent hitting them as often as you think you are.

[DragonsFire]

I solo queue often, upwards of 50% of my play time. Rarely would I ever classify myself as fodder, even when I know I'm up against a 4 man on the other team, unless I am intentionally throwing myself in front as an Assault. And that's because I always take the time to do what I can to organize the other members of my team with at least some loose plan. It's not going to always work, but complete steamrolls of whatever team I happened to drop with tend to be very infrequent at best.

And therein lies the issue. Most pub drops, people just don't bother to do that, and all too often, the folks that drop in 3-4 man premades will just go off and do their own thing and not try and assist the team they dropped with, which leads to them being rolled. Yeah, typing is inefficient, but it DOES make a difference and should be used MUCH more frequently than it currently is.

Edited by DragonsFire, 22 January 2013 - 10:14 PM.