949 replies to this topic

[Rejarial Galatan]

nope, not trying to troll, tho alot of people wanna think it. I am looking broad spectrum here. while, yea, its a game, but, when physics start being selectively used, it just does not sit right with me. i mean, they are trying their level best to make this game as awesome as it can be, and doing what they can to maximize the physics, but, when certain things are over looked, it irks me like a bit of dust behind a contact lens.

[Thoran]

DrnkJawa, on 30 May 2012 - 12:22 AM, said:

One thing i would like to never seen in MWO is that crap madcat, too many fanboys having nerdgasms about it

And i wouldn't see a Novacat, the next wouldn't see a Tomahawk... you see where it goes? At the end there are no Mechs ingame

[MagnusEffect]

@Rejarial Galatan: Are you a munchkin?... All this talk about Coolant Flushing, Clan-tech, and engine explosions... I'm thinking you might be a munchkin

[Eyclone]

I'm no clan fan boy but the mad-cat its pretty iconic, all the more reason to include it later so I can tag team it and strip it for parts, ala mechcommander intro vid

[WalkingDeathBot]

hmmmmmmmm..........I don't want to see people be reward with c-bills and xp for doing nothing, breeding the beginnings of the dreaded afk player.

[Thorn Hallis]

NHUA

[Ian]

Well ok so lets go with real science.

Quote

There is no possibility of a catastrophic accident in a fusion reactor resulting in major release of radioactivity to the environment or injury to non-staff, unlike modern fission reactors. The primary reason is that nuclear fusion requires precisely controlled temperature, pressure, and magnetic field parameters to generate net energy. If the reactor were damaged, these parameters would be disrupted and the heat generation in the reactor would rapidly cease.
Fusion reactors are extremely safe in this sense, and it makes them favorable over fission reactors, which, in contrast, continue to generate heat through beta-decay for several hours or even days after reactor shut-down, meaning that melting of fuel rods is possible even after the reactor has been stopped due to continued accumulation of heat.
There is also no risk of a runaway reaction in a fusion reactor, since the plasma is normally burnt at optimal conditions, and any significant change will render it unable to produce excess heat. In fusion reactors the reaction process is so delicate that this level of safety is inherent; no elaborate failsafe mechanism is required. Although the plasma in a fusion power plant will have a volume of 1000 cubic meters or more, the density of the plasma is extremely low, and the total amount of fusion fuel in the vessel is very small, typically a few grams. If the fuel supply is closed, the reaction stops within seconds. In comparison, a fission reactor is typically loaded with enough fuel for one or several years, and no additional fuel is necessary to keep the reaction going.
In the magnetic approach, strong fields are developed in coils that are held in place mechanically by the reactor structure. Failure of this structure could release this tension and allow the magnet to "explode" outward. The severity of this event would be similar to any other industrial accident or an MRI machine quench/explosion, and could be effectively stopped with a containment building similar to those used in existing (fission) nuclear generators. The laser-driven inertial approach is generally lower-stress. Although failure of the reaction chamber is possible, simply stopping fuel delivery would prevent any sort of catastrophic failure.
Most reactor designs rely on the use of liquid lithium as both a coolant and a method for converting stray neutrons from the reaction into tritium, which is fed back into the reactor as fuel. Lithium is highly flammable, and in the case of a fire it is possible that the lithium stored on-site could be burned up and escape. In this case the tritium contents of the lithium would be released into the atmosphere, posing a radiation risk. However, calculations suggest that the total amount of tritium and other radioactive gases in a typical power plant would be so small, about 1 kg, that they would have diluted to legally acceptable limits by the time they blew as far as the plant's perimeter fence.^[37]
The likelihood of small industrial accidents including the local release of radioactivity and injury to staff cannot be estimated yet. These would include accidental releases of lithium, tritium, or mis-handling of decommissioned radioactive components of the reactor itself.

The safety of Fusion reactors. And please stop comparing them to stars also. There is a significant difference in mass and density which would GREATLY affect how hot they are. You are pretending that does not exist. So yes a punctured reactor could give someone radiation poisoning or maybe cancer, but it wouldn't explode.

[MagnusEffect]

Rejarial Galatan, on 29 May 2012 - 10:50 PM, said:

there has been too long an absence of the Clans, it is high time they return. I mean c'mon, MW3 IIRC had no clans, nor did MW4, just the technology.

For the record, the Clans have never been "absent" from the Mechwarrior franchise since MW2. Sure we might have played as various other factions, but the Clans always showed up in some form. Sure there hasn't been a solo campaign in awhile, but MWO isn't going to fix that. Besides, the issue has never been about the Clans themselves. Most people dislike them for the unbalancing their tech brings, not the factions themselves. Originally, their honor code and limited numbers/supplies WERE their balance... but that has been NON-EXISTENT in the MW franchise. Personally, my biggest annoyance is how the Clans are suppose to be this "elite honor-bound" group and yet what do you see most of the time?... yeah... exactly...

If there was a way to implement mechanics that encouraged "honorable" tactics with extra honor(credits), I would be all for their inclusion. What I don't want is for them as a faction to play exactly the same as IS units (which is what happened in MW4).

Edited by MagnusEffect, 30 May 2012 - 01:15 AM.

[Rejarial Galatan]

MagnusEffect, on 30 May 2012 - 12:55 AM, said:

@Rejarial Galatan: Are you a munchkin?... All this talk about Coolant Flushing, Clan-tech, and engine explosions... I'm thinking you might be a munchkin

ok, this may not make sense. firstly, no, not a munchkin. What I am about to say at this point is not intended to troll, just express my own viewpoint and why i say what i say. I think beyond myself. Back in my days on SWG, I was in a guild called Ruby Cardinals. Our creed was to protect those who would or could not protect themselves. Also, having been subjected in my own life of nearly fatal abuse by my peers, I tend to stand up for those who will not speak up for themselves. I myself, in terms of coolant flushing, since you mentioned it first, so shall i, rarely used it, and when I did, it was for that hail-mary save my hide shot. In terms of Clan tech/mechs, i prefer the clan side of things, because things for me, are simpler there, no need to politic things, just get in my mech, and kill. as far as engine explosions, color me crazy, but, we are talking a bloody miniature star inside your mech. just a whole lot of room for a nasty end.
My preferred role, isnt to be the biggest DPS machine I can be, it is just to kill what I can before I get killed. I never build to be the highest DPS monkey, no point in it for me. While, yea, I enjoy the big mechs, the heavy/assault class, its because I tend to, act like a bloody tank, and try to soak the hate so the rest of my team can do what it has to. A lot of people for what ever reason, when it comes to the things I champion, coolant flushes for example, think only of themselves, and that is their right, I wont challenge it. But, I will challenge the idea that things like that are pointless or stupid.
I honestly think, we are a great bunch of people, and this game can go years upon decades if its done right, but only if we stop thinking only as far as our own noses and stop being jaded by games like MW4 and how it screwed up things like Coolant flushing. I do not know if any of this makes sense or helps anyone understand why I say what I say, but, there it is.

[BulletProofPanda]

Ian, on 30 May 2012 - 01:02 AM, said:

Well ok so lets go with real science.



The safety of Fusion reactors. And please stop comparing them to stars also. There is a significant difference in mass and density which would GREATLY affect how hot they are. You are pretending that does not exist. So yes a punctured reactor could give someone radiation poisoning or maybe cancer, but it wouldn't explode.

But a pressure buildup would .
Are mech reactors running on normal fusion or cold fusion?

[Rejarial Galatan]

Ian, on 30 May 2012 - 01:02 AM, said:

Well ok so lets go with real science.



The safety of Fusion reactors. And please stop comparing them to stars also. There is a significant difference in mass and density which would GREATLY affect how hot they are. You are pretending that does not exist. So yes a punctured reactor could give someone radiation poisoning or maybe cancer, but it wouldn't explode.

I can and will compare them to stars, because stars are nothing more than massive fusion reactors. While, yes, you are correct in that size makes a tremendous difference, it does not negate the temperatures and the potential for some serious nasty effects on the machine it is in.

David PeachHill, on 30 May 2012 - 01:09 AM, said:

But a pressure buildup would .
Are mech reactors running on normal fusion or cold fusion?

and he is right, the pressure is the real risk on such a small scale. small or large, there are huge pressures at work here. and they are looking for a way out, even if that means shredding the mech in the process. and yea, cold or hot fusion runs a mech? anyone?

[Spirit Walker]

I don't care what the original poster said. I don't want clans. Not their faction, their mechs, or their technology. I don't care how cool some people think their mechs look, I don't care how much better their gear is. I want the battlefield to be determined by skill, not by who has the fanciest toys. The only reason the idea of the Clans worked in the books was because their behavior was governed by the author. In the games, nobody ever played them the right way. Nobody. Not even you, guy who's going to argue with me.

I don't want the game to become "pay to win". I want there to be a way to get the good stuff by simply being good at the game.

I don't want faction specific mechs to appear en masse on enemy rosters.

[Ian]

One would assume hot as they contribute a small amount of heat to the mech. However there is nothing stating they operate under great pressure.

[Rejarial Galatan]

Hate to break it to you Spirit Walker, while that is your opinion, the Clans ARE coming, and by all logic, they will be a faction that is playable. They are part and parcel to the Battletech Universe, they are what draws alot of players in. Then you get those of us who came in on Mechwarrior 2, myself included, if you do not count the cartoon. Lets face it, the Clans make the Battle Tech Universe what it is, w/out them, you basically have our world as it may be 1000 years or so from now, which, is DULL.

Ian, on 30 May 2012 - 01:17 AM, said:

One would assume hot as they contribute a small amount of heat to the mech. However there is nothing stating they operate under great pressure.

oh this made my head hurt. Might I ask: do you honestly know what it takes to sustain a fusion reaction, and just how hard it is? I will state, that, thus far, no fusion reaction lasting more than mere microseconds have been achieved. It takes obscene amounts of pressure and heat to get going in the first place, let alone sustain it.

[BulletProofPanda]

How is power generated from these fusion reactors anyway, are the self contained units with a turbine? or from nuclear decay?

[Max Liao]

Rejarial Galatan, on 30 May 2012 - 01:20 AM, said:

Hate to break it to you Spirit Walker, while that is your opinion, the Clans ARE coming, and by all logic, they will be a faction that is playable. They are part and parcel to the Battletech Universe, they are what draws alot of players in. Then you get those of us who came in on Mechwarrior 2, myself included, if you do not count the cartoon. Lets face it, the Clans make the Battle Tech Universe what it is, w/out them, you basically have our world as it may be 1000 years or so from now, which, is DULL.


oh this made my head hurt. Might I ask: do you honestly know what it takes to sustain a fusion reaction, and just how hard it is? I will state, that, thus far, no fusion reaction lasting more than mere microseconds have been achieved. It takes obscene amounts of pressure and heat to get going in the first place, let alone sustain it.

The Succession Wars are FAR from dull. The problem is the ADD simpleton wants an easy bogyman - us versus them - that they can understand without much thought, and the alien nature of the Clans (and the broken *** tech that was brought to the game) provides that in spades.
In the Succession Wars the politics and machinations of those political figures made the Inner Sphere feel alive. I'm not talking MAximilian Liao, Takashi Kurita, et al, I mean people like Michael and Morgan Hassek, Tormana Liao, Anton and Janos Marik, Heimdall and Loki, etc. So much of that depth was lost with the Clans.

Sure, there's some infighting with the Crusader vs Warden thing, and some minor intrigue within the Inner Sphere, but if anything (while the Clan invasion itself was rather exciting) the Clan era certain is not.

[Ian]

You know, I am not a Physics professor, so no. But both real world and in universe sources say there would be no big boom.

The best part of this is that you are ok with 500 years of science making the fusion reactor, but not ok with them making one that doesn't explode to support your argument.

Edited by Ian, 30 May 2012 - 01:30 AM.

[Rejarial Galatan]

I think, in all honesty, the fights from an old clanner point of view, are far more exciting, when it is myself, my star and thats it against 2-3 lances of IS. I think there is tremendous challenge in being an effective and honorable clan pilot when played right.

[MagnusEffect]

The clans will undoubtedly be introduced, but what about alternatives to the IS player vs Clan player scenario?:

We could all have our cake and eat it too if they simply introduced one thing; co-op missions.
-IS players only fight AI controlled Clan enemies for co-op: AI could behave "like a Clanner" and just as importantly, BE HARD.
-Clan players only fight other Clans for "trials of possession/grievance/etc." with co-op missions being against IS AI
-Clan and IS players could still fight each other in matches, but with Battle Value taken into account to keep teams even (VERY IMPORTANT)!

With these three things in place (or at least the last one), no one is FORCED into dealing with Clan tech. And yes, fans of the Clans are numerous. But let us not forget that fans who HATE the Clans and people who don't know **** about them are equally numerous. I think it is the only way to make everyone happy. I argue that anyone who thinks otherwise just wants an unfair advantage.

To use a WoT analogy; how do you think it would work out if one side had WW2 tanks and the other had modern versions?

Edited by MagnusEffect, 30 May 2012 - 01:39 AM.

[Rejarial Galatan]

Ian, on 30 May 2012 - 01:27 AM, said:

You know, I am not a Physics professor, so no. But both real world and in universe sources say there would be no big boom.

not sure if your trolling me at this point. But, you seem to fail to notice the fact that a fusion reaction, a REAL fusion reaction requires an obscene amount of heat and pressure to even get started. Once it is going there is soo much pressure that unless there is something containing it, its going to explode in a big way. It is why our Sun for example in some 4 billion years will grow to take Earth itself out as it starts fusing heavier elements and internal pressure goes up forcing it to swell to red giant. Take stars capable of going nova, supernova and hypernova, and the pressures are exponentially higher, causing exceptional deaths of stars. So, yes, a fusion reaction can, and DOES explode as soon as containment is lost. While, I would love, in game to strap into a battle mech, I would not want to be with in a mile of one in real life, because of that fusion reactor inside it. It is small, and very dangerous. It is a pressure vessel looking for a way out. Any way you shake it, fusion is dangerous. While, it seems the game takes this risk and goes by way of the do-do with it, the real thing, is a killer.