424 replies to this topic

[Dayuhan]

Currently there are no repair and rearm costs in MWO (this is a recent change as all through closed Beta and in to Open Beta there were repair and rearms costs). Eventually the repair and rearm costs are going to return. If there is a respawn mode it will have to take in to consideration repairing and rearming your 'mech EACH time it is destroyed - so in other words every time you respawn you lose C-bills.

Even the proposed Dropship mode (where you drop with your four readied 'mechs one at a time) has the potential to be very costly once repair and rearm are reinstated.

So the greatest in-game reason against respawn I can give - most players would go bankrupt repairing their 'mechs after a few drops and would then have to use Trial 'mechs to get more c-bills.

[Novawrecker]

Critical, even if you give everyone the same number of respawns. It still removes the element of attrition and tactics. It becomes nothing but kamikazi runs. Pardon, but I, as well as many players of MWO, prefer a the reward of a hard earned victory. By dulling down the challenge factor, you also dull down the game making it eventually boring because it takes no skill to achieve the victory. Adding respawns does exactly that: Dulls down the challenge factor.

If I wanted to play something that boring, I'd play WoW.


I do not know if you have yet to experience the thrill of a match against an opposing team that truely made you re-think how to engage them. The sheer excietment of knowing one mistake can cost you a match, and how to outwit so your team winds up being the victor. And the envigorment of celebrating after winning that hard earned encounter. I have, and it's an amazing, thrilling feeling leaving me thristy for more matches like that. Throw respawns into that mix and that sensation goes "poof" because all one has to do is hit the magic cheeto button: "respawn". There is nothing challenging, exciting, fun, or thrilling about that.

Edited by Novawrecker, 25 January 2013 - 08:12 AM.

[Novawrecker]

Thirdstar, on 25 January 2013 - 08:00 AM, said:

You can say a LOT of things about multiplayer MW3 & 4, that it was not challenging was not one of them. The rest of your post is what you THINK games with respawn mechanics play like. I bet none of the anti-respawn crowd have ever played TF2.

Although I cannot speak regarding MW3 & 4. I can definetly testify that I have played many games with respawn mechanics, and it was shortly lived due to how quickly I grew bored with them. My posts are based on personally experiencing how quickly such games became dull due to have little to no challenge factor.

Btw, I did play TF2, for what it was (especially with me being a redonkulous TF fan), it bored me quickly as well.

Edited by Novawrecker, 25 January 2013 - 08:12 AM.

[Thirdstar]

Novawrecker, on 25 January 2013 - 08:06 AM, said:

Critical, even if you give everyone the same number of respawns. It still removes the element of attrition and tactics. It becomes nothing but kamikazi runs. Pardon, but I, as well as many players of MWO, prefer a the reward of a hard earned victory. By dulling down the challenge factor, you also dull down the game making it eventually boring because it takes no skill to achieve the victory. Adding respawns does exactly that: Dulls down the challenge factor.

If I wanted to play something that boring, I'd play WoW.

I do not know if you have yet to experience the thrill of a match against an opposing team that truely made you re-think how to engage them. The sheer excietment of knowing one mistake can cost you a match, and how to outwit so your team winds up being the victor. And the envigorment of celebrating after winning that hard earned encounter. I have, and it's an amazing, thrilling feeling leaving me thristy for more matches like that. Throw respawns into that mix and that sensation goes "poof" because all one has to do is hit the magic cheeto button: "respawn".

Implying that there's no thrill/challenge/tactics in any game that has respawn mechanics. What exactly are you basing this on?

You realize that your boredom is a personal issue yes? And is no indication about what if anything someone else experiences. It's a subjective argument.

That you find TF2 boring makes your question your ability to judge any kind of skill based play.

Edited by Thirdstar, 25 January 2013 - 08:15 AM.

[xZaOx]

There is a hundred fps games with respawn. If thats what you're looking for go play those games.

[Thirdstar]

xZaOx, on 25 January 2013 - 08:11 AM, said:

There is a hundred fps games with respawn. If thats what you're looking for go play those games.

Shush. Adults are talking.

Edited by Thirdstar, 25 January 2013 - 08:16 AM.

[Carnivoris]

Because this isn't an FPS. It's a simulator. Once your mech gets destroyed, it can't just get fixed in a magical poof of smoke. We will be getting a game mode in the future that allows you to select 4 different mechs and you will 'respawn' in the next selected mech, though.

[Thirdstar]

Carnivoris, on 25 January 2013 - 08:17 AM, said:

Because this isn't an FPS.

Oh hahahhahahahahahahaahahh.

[Critical Fumble]

Novawrecker, on 25 January 2013 - 08:06 AM, said:

Critical, even if you give everyone the same number of respawns. It still removes the element of attrition and tactics. It becomes nothing but kamikazi runs.

Why can't you understand that I'm talking about respawns with costs? Which is, by the way, attrition. The difference is you start with a lager pool of resources. People who waste their resources would still lose.

[HiplyRustic]

xRaeder, on 25 January 2013 - 06:15 AM, said:

Yeah. I'm not as happy about 3rd person as I am about respawns, but I'm a big enough man not to just rage quit because of one feature.

Except that adding respawns isn't adding a feature...it's changing the game.

Thirdstar, on 25 January 2013 - 08:13 AM, said:

Shush. Adults are talking.

Point them out?

[CypherHalo]

Dayuhan, on 25 January 2013 - 08:05 AM, said:

Currently there are no repair and rearm costs in MWO (this is a recent change as all through closed Beta and in to Open Beta there were repair and rearms costs). Eventually the repair and rearm costs are going to return. If there is a respawn mode it will have to take in to consideration repairing and rearming your 'mech EACH time it is destroyed - so in other words every time you respawn you lose C-bills.

Even the proposed Dropship mode (where you drop with your four readied 'mechs one at a time) has the potential to be very costly once repair and rearm are reinstated.

So the greatest in-game reason against respawn I can give - most players would go bankrupt repairing their 'mechs after a few drops and would then have to use Trial 'mechs to get more c-bills.

I'm sorry, but why are we so intent on punishing players? Games should be about having fun. R&R should add to the fun of a game, not be a punitive measure. Personally, I do think R&R can make the game more interesting, the problem was how they implemented it. Since it drained away your c-bills, I just came to resent the R&R costs. I felt like I was getting punished every time my hard-earned money went to R&R costs, especially if you were driving a Heavy or an Assault. You could practically lose your whole earnings. I mean, jeez, are Assault mechs never supposed to die?

Personally, I think R&R costs could be brought back if it used a separate resource, call it "scrap" or something like that. My c-bills could keep on growing, but I would still have the challenge of managing R&R costs plus thinking about how R&R will affect my loadouts. E.g. running expensive equipment all the time will become far more difficult.

I get that we want to reward good players but let's do just that, reward good players, there's no need to go around punishing people. Especially when it detracts from the enjoyment of the game. I don't miss R&R costs at all.

[Thirdstar]

HiplyRustic, on 25 January 2013 - 08:22 AM, said:

Point them out?

Well not you, that's for certain.

Try actually reading the thread. You might, read MIGHT, learn something.

[Critical Fumble]

CypherHalo, on 25 January 2013 - 08:24 AM, said:

I'm sorry, but why are we so intent on punishing players? Games should be about having fun. R&R should add to the fun of a game, not be a punitive measure. Personally, I do think R&R can make the game more interesting, the problem was how they implemented it. Since it drained away your c-bills, I just came to resent the R&R costs. I felt like I was getting punished every time my hard-earned money went to R&R costs, especially if you were driving a Heavy or an Assault. You could practically lose your whole earnings. I mean, jeez, are Assault mechs never supposed to die?

Personally, I think R&R costs could be brought back if it used a separate resource, call it "scrap" or something like that. My c-bills could keep on growing, but I would still have the challenge of managing R&R costs plus thinking about how R&R will affect my loadouts. E.g. running expensive equipment all the time will become far more difficult.

I get that we want to reward good players but let's do just that, reward good players, there's no need to go around punishing people. Especially when it detracts from the enjoyment of the game. I don't miss R&R costs at all.

The more or less final version should have R&R, but it needs to reward players for doing well, not punish them for doing poorly.

[Thirdstar]

CypherHalo, on 25 January 2013 - 08:24 AM, said:

I'm sorry, but why are we so intent on punishing players? Games should be about having fun. R&R should add to the fun of a game, not be a punitive measure. Personally, I do think R&R can make the game more interesting, the problem was how they implemented it. Since it drained away your c-bills, I just came to resent the R&R costs. I felt like I was getting punished every time my hard-earned money went to R&R costs, especially if you were driving a Heavy or an Assault. You could practically lose your whole earnings. I mean, jeez, are Assault mechs never supposed to die?

Personally, I think R&R costs could be brought back if it used a separate resource, call it "scrap" or something like that. My c-bills could keep on growing, but I would still have the challenge of managing R&R costs plus thinking about how R&R will affect my loadouts. E.g. running expensive equipment all the time will become far more difficult.

I get that we want to reward good players but let's do just that, reward good players, there's no need to go around punishing people. Especially when it detracts from the enjoyment of the game. I don't miss R&R costs at all.

A lot of the old MW players seem to be VERY intent on punishment systems and rigid hierarchies. I wonder what that means. Nothing wrong in being a passionate gamer but we're all supposed to be in this for fun right?

[Deadxero]

Why does it need respawns?

This game is a tactical simulation, not CoD. In MWO is about surviving and playing smart, not run'n'gun suicide into the enemy team.

There are enough run out, die, spawn, repeat games around. We don't need another one.

[Thirdstar]

Deadxero, on 25 January 2013 - 08:28 AM, said:

Why does it need respawns?

This game is a tactical simulation, not CoD. In MWO is about surviving and playing smart, not run'n'gun suicide into the enemy team.

There are enough run out, die, spawn, repeat games around. We don't need another one.

Does no one actually read the thread? Am I the only one who doesn't go straight from the title to the last post to regurgitate?

[smokefield]

Joseph Mallan, on 25 January 2013 - 06:29 AM, said:

I'm encouraging the game to stay away from ReSpawn. I'm a 30+ year gamer. I have only used respawn at arcades when I have to drop in another quarter to continue. Because I try to refrain from saying somethings on a forum, does not mean I haven't thought them and agree. Why specially me by the way? I am not a DEV or a Moderator. I am a member just like everyone else.

For the record... ReSpawn offends my paid professional mass Murderer training. When I shoot people they are supposed to stay dead. Giving a second chance at me is an insult to my effort. I kill you, you stay dead till the end of the game, you kill me I stay dead till the end of the game. That's how combat games should be. I haven't played a CoD or other MMO. I would have railed against ReSpawn in them if I had.

...i am in the same boat lol...30+ year gamer and played a lot of games from a lot of genres in my life. There are not many things that can surprise me from a gaming comunity. And I fully agree with Joseph especialy on the second part. I was better than you ...stay dead. You were better..i can take the loss and try to learn from it...become better than you and overcome you next time. Respawn is for losers who cannot take a loss.

[Thirdstar]

smokefield, on 25 January 2013 - 08:38 AM, said:

Respawn is for losers who cannot take a loss.

Sticks and stones friend, sticks and stones.

[GoManGo]

I think (YES) we should for a new game mode (Respawn) exleast if I have to get stomped by hacking 4 man+4man groups whatever I get to respawn and maybe take a few out when its down to 8-2 and im one of the last ones standing.

[xRaeder]

Loxx, on 25 January 2013 - 06:20 AM, said:

Respawns stifle tatical thinking which is what makes this game so great. You have to consider your actions in a battle and what effects those actions will have on your team's success. If you take that away, you have zero responibilities other then ZERG, die, ZERG, die...

Not really. I see people take cover, flank, etc in games that have respawns. Look at BF3... people dive into cover when they take fire, zig zag when under sniper fire, run out of buildings when they get hit with high explosives, etc. People don't want to die in video games as a general rule, because dying means you have to respawn and run back into the fight.

I would actually say that I see more suicidal rushes in MWO than I've seen in BF3.

If the game could be expanded to have MW:LL size maps (15x15km or more) and far more players than we have now (say 32v32) then we would probably see a huge surge in popularity of this game.

I am personally tired of the 15 minute matches. In fact I really don't play more than 5 games a week anymore because there's nothing to keep me coming back. When I was playing BF3 I would play for hours on end, I can't do that in this game because the matches are over so quickly.

In fact I would say that matches are over before they even begin sometimes. One team has a premade while the other doesn't. One team has better loadout synergy (Mechs with LRMs, SRMs, ECM, etc) while the other team doesn't. One to two players on one team disconnect before the match starts etc.

With respawns you allow people to really have team work. In BF3 for example if a tank is ****** my team I and others will respawn as engineers to rocket it to death. In this game if my team is getting dominated by LRM boaters we could respawn and get our own LRM boats or provide ECM cover.