455 replies to this topic

[KingCobra]

Bfvmg, on 29 January 2013 - 10:18 AM, said:

I also help run some gaming centers, world wide (yes, more then one. Love my job sometimes)
I am not seeing people leave like this. I see the fact that MWO is a TEAM GAME (a concept that some people just cant understand, not matter how many times we stomp...er...tell them) bringing my peeps together. They learn about teamspeak being on the alienware we provide them. They go to the FREE TS chats (NA, EU NGNG etc) and learn that playing as a team with other lmechwarriors is: 1. More fun, 2, a lot better for stats, and 3...More FUN!



Team game. Nuff said.



OMG? Learn from your mistakes? Not try to bring everyone down to the same level? Say it isn't so! *Gasp*

I keep saying, and I will keep saying this. I drop in a group, and I try to synch drop 4-mans as often as I can convince people to do it. Sometimes we end on the opposite teams, sometimes the same team. Regardless, it is a million times better then dropping as a pug (and yes, I have about 500 matches as a pug...and I hated almost everyone of them). I am tired of the pug's QQ all over these boards because they lose all the time because of premades, especially when it really can be attributed to better pilots.

If you don't like it, I invite you to leave.

I'm sorry but if this type of gamer where to rule MWO then the game will fail. BFG we as sane players and individuals we have not invited you to leave? But you have a unbalanced persona and should seek medical attention soon.

Edited by KingCobra, 29 January 2013 - 10:26 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Bfvmg, on 29 January 2013 - 10:18 AM, said:

OMG? Learn from your mistakes? Not try to bring everyone down to the same level? Say it isn't so! *Gasp*

I keep saying, and I will keep saying this. I drop in a group, and I try to synch drop 4-mans as often as I can convince people to do it. Sometimes we end on the opposite teams, sometimes the same team. Regardless, it is a million times better then dropping as a pug (and yes, I have about 500 matches as a pug...and I hated almost everyone of them). I am tired of the pug's QQ all over these boards because they lose all the time because of premades, especially when it really can be attributed to better pilots.

If you don't like it, I invite you to leave.

We don't try to sync drop, we just fight everybody that comes our way. No discrimination, no segregation. the only thing I don't like about PUGging is the silence and lack of camaraderie. i don't worry so much about the win/loss record as that is more a factor of the team as a whole. I am more interested in my individual performance. Did I get any assists? Did I do a commendable amount of damage? Did I get any kills? In that order, that is what I am concerned about as a PUG.

Jacmac, on 29 January 2013 - 10:24 AM, said:

Solo players are always going to complain about this until PGI puts in a solo-only mode. The ELO matchmaking isn't going to change this one bit. So if the message doesn't get through to PGI and they keep forcing solo players to play against premade, you can and should expect the premade complaints to continue indefinitely.

12 years of complaining about Premades... Does WoW have a PUG only server/Lobby? If they do... Why is there still QQ about it this year?

[Dimento Graven]

Garth Erlam, on 29 January 2013 - 08:10 AM, said:

The ELO in matchmaking phase 3 should help with to start - everyone being matched against similar skilled opponents will be a good start. Also, we'll keep adding to it as time goes on and we see what needs to be done/changed/added/etc. Also, while I do agree with you it's very sad when larger corps/clans will run 4 mans to intentionally beat up on newer players. It sucks, but maybe the fact we can see them doing it will change their mind, I dunno. People often talk a big game and then realise what it entails, and well...

On the other hand though, virtually every post about a 'loss' here claims it was against a premade - but when I check the logs, I find it wasn't (and if it was, it was a pair or friends or something.)

To sum though, I challenge those who do drop in 4mans to try solo dropping for awhile. See how the other side lives. Yes you'll RUN back to TS3 when you're done, sure, but I hope you also see why they complain about it. Being in a 4man doesn't guarantee a win, just like being a lone wolf doesn't guarantee you'll lose. However, a 4man guarantees that team DOES NOT have four new players, and makes it more likely the opposing teams will.

So if nothing else, maybe invite a new player into your 4man and show him the ropes. Keep rotating people through every week. I understand the vast majority of 4man groups are just doing it to play with their friends, but I think you also know, if in the back of your mind, you have an unfair advantage. So help the newbies out and show them the ropes.

Garth,

May I point out:

From the http://mwomercs.com/game page:

Quote

How does gameplay work?

MechWarrior Online puts MechWarriors into a first-person, team-based, tactical battlefield where the victors swim in the spoils of war and are rewarded with the almighty C-Bill (in-game currency).

Each team has 8 players and the two teams are pitted in combat in an enclosed battlefield. Communication is key, be it in-game chat, integrated C3, or a third party VOIP solution, keeping in constant communication with your teammates will drastically increase your team’s chances of success.

The various weight classes of BattleMechs help create their own evolving roles on the battlefield. Fast moving scouts can feed target and tactical information back to the main battle group and the team commander. This information allows the support and assault role pilots to decide where to put their resources to work. Long-range fire support and heavy hitting assault class Mechs will use this invaluable information to finish the job at hand. It is up to you, the pilot, to customize your BattleMech’s loadout and electronic systems to fulfill the role you want to take.

I don't feel sorry for those who REFUSE to form teams and use a VOIP solution, and neither should you.

This is the game your team designed, "team based" requiring "constant communication" to be as affective as possible.

The fact that there is a recalcitrant minority refusing to join a community in order to pre-form teams and utilize VOIP to enhance their coordination is NOT your problem, and definitely no where near a priority.

I don't believe ELO will have any affect on the 'pug stomping' problem. What posts I've seen from PGI on it don't actually state that the rankings will be used by the match maker, only that the rankings are used to affect the player's rank at the END of each match. If ELO isn't going to be used by the match maker when constructing the opposing sides, then we'll just have more of the same, only now we'll be scored on it.

Edited by Dimento Graven, 29 January 2013 - 10:30 AM.

[Bfvmg]

KingCobra, on 29 January 2013 - 10:25 AM, said:

But you have a unbalanced persona and should seek medical attention soon.

I did. The meds are helping, but the voices wont stop
At least the twitching is settling down.

[Mystere]

Jacmac, on 29 January 2013 - 09:03 AM, said:

Explain why.

Simple. Eventhough I PUG 100%, I want to slap the big baddies (i.e. groups ) or die trying.

[Bfvmg]

Joseph Mallan, on 29 January 2013 - 10:28 AM, said:

We don't try to sync drop, we just fight everybody that comes our way. No discrimination, no segregation. the only thing I don't like about PUGging is the silence and lack of camaraderie. i don't worry so much about the win/loss record as that is more a factor of the team as a whole. I am more interested in my individual performance. Did I get any assists? Did I do a commendable amount of damage? Did I get any kills? In that order, that is what I am concerned about as a PUG.

Hi Joseph.
We also just fight anybody that comes along. We don't care, its all in fun. We just do the best we can, and have fun with it.
I worry more about the big "V" at the final screen. I don't care if I have 1 or 1000 damage, 0 or 8 kills, 0 or 8 assists.
As long as I did what I could to help out, then I am happy and having fun. And lets not forget this fact... we get rolled as a 4 man group almost as often as not.

But we often run cheese builds, experimental builds, and "Rats in the Corn" exercises just for the heck of it. Over all, the game is soooo much better as a team then a pug. I guess I am having a hard time understanding why ANYONE would rather pug then group.

[Darwins Dog]

In my clan we try to bring a little fairness to our drops. We get the same weight classes and then sync-drop the 2 groups. We are either on opposing teams or in different matches every time.

We would do more 8 man drops, but it's frustrating to get organized, then fail to find a match, then wait for half the team to restart the client (none of the workarounds seem to work now), then wait for a match again, then have a 5 minute game, then start the cycle again.

So yeah, 4 man gets you a lot more play time, and our method brings a lot of balance. Plus we get to shoot each other!

[Dimento Graven]

Darwins Dog, on 29 January 2013 - 10:49 AM, said:

In my clan we try to bring a little fairness to our drops. We get the same weight classes and then sync-drop the 2 groups. We are either on opposing teams or in different matches every time.

We would do more 8 man drops, but it's frustrating to get organized, then fail to find a match, then wait for half the team to restart the client (none of the workarounds seem to work now), then wait for a match again, then have a 5 minute game, then start the cycle again.

So yeah, 4 man gets you a lot more play time, and our method brings a lot of balance. Plus we get to shoot each other!

Mmm... I have to say that coordinated 4 man drops are where the most vicious pug stomping occurs, when two 4 man teams on the same VOIP server are on the same side.

BUT, I also understand the issues with client making 8 man drops so painfull. You're absolutely right, almost every night we do 8 man drops we're having to reform groups multiple times due to bugs that make it impossible to drop, especially on those rare occassions the match maker doesn't find us a match.

Yes, I think that unless PGI does a LOT to fix the client issues with pre-made 8's, the pugs will have to suffer a higher than normal chance at facing coordinated 2x4 drops...

[Pihb]

Why would they go back to 8 mans? They can sync drop and get easy kills and a kill is a kill.They tried doing only 8 mans but they got their ***** kicked so they decided stomping pugs was the way to go. Then they are going to give some ******** about how "8 mans" don't have enough people, or we don't like the ddc 3L teams. These are the people who care about their "kdr", "bragging rights", and "accolades". Basically, making their ego bigger is their highest priority, and if it comes at the expense of your fun, oh well. But, the joke is on them, this is only a game.

[Dimento Graven]

Pihb, on 29 January 2013 - 11:05 AM, said:

Why would they go back to 8 mans? They can sync drop and get easy kills and a kill is a kill.They tried doing only 8 mans but they got their ***** kicked so they decided stomping pugs was the way to go. Then they are going to give some ******** about how "8 mans" don't have enough people, or we don't like the ddc 3L teams. These are the people who care about their "kdr", "bragging rights", and "accolades". Basically, making their ego bigger is their highest priority, and if it comes at the expense of your fun, oh well. But, the joke is on them, this is only a game.

A "kill is a kill" is the most simplistic view of this game. Yeah, I could go to school for the mentally challenged and be a straight A student, win every spelling bee, but really, what's the point, there's no challenge in it.

In an 8 man drop you KNOW you're facing another group of people working together at winning, and now you and your team have to attempt to out think and out fight them. Doing 2x4 drops is definitely a lot less of a challenge, but you haven't proven anything other than something everyone already knows:

This game requires cooperation and constant communication to be as affective as possible.

[Hurnn]

SiorAlpin Wolf, on 29 January 2013 - 03:57 AM, said:

I have seen at least 20 people that play MW TT get excited about playing MWO then when they actually play its all good until they realise that pug grps are mixed with pre-mades and that in some games the opposition consists of pure pre-mades against pugs and their response to the game and the matchmaking is not very pleasant. So those that are doing this sync dropping thing please stop i would at least like to see this game get to public release, go find some other game to flex your ego.

yeah their being turned off could have nothing to do with them sucking, or the massive imbalances and flaws in the game it's all the mythical 4=4 sync drops.....

[Joseph Mallan]

Hurnn, on 29 January 2013 - 11:17 AM, said:

yeah their being turned off could have nothing to do with them sucking, or the massive imbalances and flaws in the game it's all the mythical 4=4 sync drops.....

More like they came into the game expecting it to be easy and found out the player base has some skill and don't worry about using it. I expected the beatdown I got when I first joined Closed Beta I wasn't disappointed. two weeks later I wasn't getting beat as bad any more.

[Fate 6]

Honestly, people that give up on a game because of it's INCOMPLETE (it's been told to us, it's not just our imaginations) matchmaking system are just making excuses for their own inability to learn the game. I did poorly when I was new, but I gave the game a chance. I earned my mechs through long hard grinding. I got my skills through playing tough matches. If they like the games potential they wouldn't have left.

It's kind of like my friend who told me to get D3 because he said D2 was amazing. I ended up playing D3 longer than him, and much more frequently as well, because I wanted to get the full experience and I hoped it would improve. Don't give up on a game unless it shows you there's not going to be any improvement. I still have hope for MWO.

Edited by Fate 6, 29 January 2013 - 11:29 AM.

[Applecrow]

There really needs to be a Trial-only queue for people to get used to the game without going up against veteran players who know their mechs inside and out.

However if that was implemented I'd like the old queue to go back to allowing groups of any size.

If you aren't dropping in the trial queue it should be assumed you know what you are doing and realize that there are 7 blue arrows on the map for a reason.

Clan groups got shouldered with the dreaded "pugstomp" name and forced into playing 4 or 8 only simply because veteran players (solo or grouped) were placed against trial dropping new players with no idea how their mech worked or simple mech tactics.

[Kristov Kerensky]

KingDavid, on 29 January 2013 - 05:39 AM, said:

I agree with OP, i have some friends that tried play MWO just for 1 day they stop playing. I asked why ? they said that they suck at this game because they always loose. They did not know that a lot of premade in the match, they just think they suck so they don't want to play MWO better play other games that they good at. I was sad really because i asked them to play MWO so this game could make it in the market and i love battle tech universe.

This..this is what people who try MWO and don't like it REALLY feel about the game.

They don't think they are being stomped all over by organized teams, they think the game is too hard and they leave because they want an EASY game where winning only requires you to be IN the game, no actual skill, ability, or thinking on the part of the player is actually required.

Welcome to the F2P game market, where the majority of your potential playerbase is unskilled in anything more complicated then left clicking on the brightly glowing thingy on the screen and THAT is often considered quite complicated and rather tricky. Sadly, this is not a joke post, I'm serious, this IS the attitude of the majority of the F2P market out there, they have NO gaming experience outside of the Farmville style gaming of Facebook. They've 'mastered' those difficult to master games on Facebook, they've even tried some CoD on consoles and they really rocked those out..once they got that mod their buddy told them about that made it so they didn't have to bother with aiming, unlocked all the weapons for them, and made them immune to damage, once they got that mod, holy **** look at that, they became gaming GODS! I know people like this, usually younger folks(under 30) who just don't feel like they should be bothered with actually learning how to do something in a video game, after all, if THAT was actually the point, then why have cheat codes, mods and all that other things that allow you to just win without doing anything, right? I mean, why are all the F2P games on a PC pay to win if they actually expected you to LEARN how to play the game? That's just stupid!

Not a joke folks, this really IS the attitude of the majority of the masses out there looking at F2P games. If it requires skill, what's the point? If they can't just jump in and immediately win, what's the point? KingDavid's friends are typical of the masses, it's something I've seen stated in drops with new players, it's too hard, it's not fair that they died, and so on. I do NOT see new players complaining about facing organized teams, I've never seen that ingame, not once. That's a whine restricted to these forums by people who've spent more then a few hours playing and don't like the fact that they can't win every single drop and be a MechWarrior God, so they come here, read a bit, and decide the ONLY reason they aren't enjoying a 40:1 KDR and 100000:1 WLR is because of PREMADES! After all, in a team oriented game, the solo player can ONLY be held down by a group of 8 players working against them purposely, right! There's NO WAY IN HELL that an unskilled, totally unexperienced person could possibly be anything but UBER otherwise! Just ask them, they'll tell you, they rock the hell out of CoD, so the ONLY reason they don't do it in MWO is because people are actively conspiring against them. It's the only logical reason for them being anything but a MechWarrior God who kills all 8 of the enemy by themselves in their Spider 5K with nothing but MGuns....we all know this to be true, but we deny it and call them names and make fun of them, telling them it's not 2x4 sync drops that we all are doing just to keep them down, but that it's them, they need more practice and to work as a member of a team, but we all know that is total BS, we just hate them because they are SO godlike!

Sadly that's another attitude you'll find in the MWO playerbase right now..this thread alone shows that fact just a little too well....

[Greyfyl]

Dimento Graven, on 29 January 2013 - 10:28 AM, said:

I don't feel sorry for those who REFUSE to form teams and use a VOIP solution, and neither should you.

You will when they shut the servers down due to a lack of players.

[Centagon]

I don't understand why people 4+4 sync drop. It's disgusting. You rarely come across other groups doing it at the same time, so you know it's not going to be a fair fight. These are scumbag players LOOKING for an unfair fight in their advantage. How much worse of a player could you be? Harken to the good old days where 8man premades fought pubs for easy wins, amirite? Except they never got good enough to actually fight other 8man premades... Such a sad ego stroke.

[Dimento Graven]

Greyfyl, on 29 January 2013 - 12:11 PM, said:

You will when they shut the servers down due to a lack of players.

People unwilling to invest a bit of free time, and zero cost effort to join a community and download a FREE VOIP solution, and put forth minimal effort to install it, aren't the sort of people who will invest REAL MONEY into any game.

What would be more telling, and probably PGI is working on getting these statistics if they don't already have them is determining those who paid for one of the founder's packages, how many of them are "lone wolves" and never group? How many of the full time "lone wolves" have spent any REAL money on this game?

You get those numbers and you'll see how "valuable" the dedicated pug'er really is and just how much of a priority his QQ'ing should really be.

[Greyfyl]

Kristov Kerensky, on 29 January 2013 - 12:04 PM, said:

They don't think they are being stomped all over by organized teams, they think the game is too hard and they leave because they want an EASY game where winning only requires you to be IN the game, no actual skill, ability, or thinking on the part of the player is actually required.

Guess what, some people play games to relax or to have fun. They don't want to have to take it super duper serious. Call them casuals or whatever, but those players could be enticed to stay and become a part of the community if the initial learning curve wasn't compounded by the problem of being thrown against players that have been playing MW in one form or another for 15 years, and then compounded by the pugstomping that goes on in the US evening hours.

Ease them in, let them enjoy what is fun about MW for a bit before throwing them to the wolves.

It sounds like a lot of you are mad becuase just maybe PGI might take away your free ride, I am hopeful that they do as it would make for a much better game overall.

[Gallowglas]

Centagon, on 29 January 2013 - 12:11 PM, said:

I don't understand why people 4+4 sync drop. It's disgusting. You rarely come across other groups doing it at the same time, so you know it's not going to be a fair fight. These are scumbag players LOOKING for an unfair fight in their advantage. How much worse of a player could you be? Harken to the good old days where 8man premades fought pubs for easy wins, amirite? Except they never got good enough to actually fight other 8man premades... Such a sad ego stroke.

Except that that's not the only reason people synch drop. See my earlier post...