299 replies to this topic

[Ashnod]

ECM isn't the problem, streaks are

[Sybreed]

Silent, on 29 January 2013 - 11:55 AM, said:

Pubbies will never stop crying.

and premades will never stop crying about pubbies.

THE CIRCLE IS COMPLETE

[Vapor Trail]

Some math, just for fun:

A single PPC, to chain-counter an ECM requires firing faster than once every 5 seconds.

To do so requires the default 10 heat sinks (w/ doubles).

In that case 9 heat / 2 hps = 4.5 seconds per shot max for steady state heat (slightly slower if moving)..

An ERPPC (@ 13 heat per shot) is going to require >2.6 hps dissipation ==> 5 extra DHS ==> 2.7hps.

13 heat / 2.7 hps = ~4.82 seconds per shot max for steady state heat (again, slightly slower if moving).

Twelve to fifteen tons of payload is easily doable for these mechs.

Due to this, I forsee the single ERPPC RVN-3L and ERPPC CDA-3M becoming used as scouts and flank harrassers, probably with "light-hunter" escorts along for the ride.

Edited by Vapor Trail, 29 January 2013 - 02:35 PM.

[OpCentar]

These changes will hit the ECM lights hard as soon as the majority realizes how you can use the Advanced Sensor Range module to reliably hit them with SSRMs in the RT, the moment they decide to break off.

If they decide to stay just kill them with direct fire weapons, either way they're dead.


And the PPC effect can remove the ECM cloak umbrella very effectively at range. Atlas D-DCs will not be able to cover their team anymore as Stalker PPC boats, or any other boating PPC mech, will just disrupt their ECM in addition to doing heavy damage.

The rain of LRMs that will inevitably follow will finish the job.

[Rannos]

Sybreed, on 29 January 2013 - 02:33 PM, said:

and premades will never stop crying about pubbies.

THE CIRCLE IS COMPLETE

Most premades are pubbies :ssh:

[Slater01]

Orzorn, on 29 January 2013 - 12:27 PM, said:

I don't believe these are the final changes to ECM by any means. TAG didn't fix ECM, and neither will this. Help help, for sure, and its a cool addition even if ECM was balanced, but ECM is still a powerful item.

But hell yes, this is cool.

Personally I think the Command Console will be the other ECM balance factor. And then they can fine tune the modules as needed, and/or add new ones.

[5th Fedcom Rat]

Going back to the original (trolling) thread title, what does ECM have to do with Pubbies? Last time I checked, it was all the premade teams/merc corps who were whining most about ECM because it ruined their 8 man games and "forced" them to drop as 4 man pugstomping groups.

[Grraarrgghh]

5th Fedcom Rat, on 29 January 2013 - 03:04 PM, said:

Going back to the original (trolling) thread title, what does ECM have to do with Pubbies? Last time I checked, it was all the premade teams/merc corps who were whining most about ECM because it ruined their 8 man games and "forced" them to drop as 4 man pugstomping groups.

I'd like to know who the merc corps were that were/are complaining about ECM so I can laugh at them.

Again, premades and pubbies aren't mutually exclusive.

[Asakara]

Just a little fun fact: A light moving at 150 kph = @ 41 meters per second.

So an ECM light heading directly towards a stationary enemy mech will cover the 70m ECM-Free-Zone in just under 2 seconds.

[Slater01]

ThomasMarik, on 29 January 2013 - 01:01 PM, said:

Um. Put on 1 tag. Costs far lesss tonnage. the heat savings are amazing, and it is FAR easier to hit a target wiht that little laser than trying to accuratly and repeatedly land a PPC blast..

Tag doesn't negate ECM. Mechs with LRMs now just have another option with these new mechanics. i.e. wade into battle, gain line of site, tag or no tag, be with in 250 to 180 and fire your LRMs vs an ECM scout. They will be lucky of they can get 2 clean volleys off, but it's better than before.

edit- opps, actually does it?, and Narc?
Dang I forgot, been so long since I could fire LRMs lol

Edited by Slater01, 29 January 2013 - 03:24 PM.

[StalaggtIKE]

My initial thoughts: Games shall continue to center around ECM; controlling ECM superiority and canceling the enemy's ECM buffs.

Quote

Hitting an ECM enabled Mech with a PPC/ERPPC will disable the ECM functionality for 5 seconds.

The buff towards PPC will make lone ECM mechs even further vulnerable; nothing new here. As single ECM mechs have always been vulnerable and easy prey. A group of ECM mechs will not be affected due to stacking ECM.

Quote

Will now affect ECM by increasing the detectable/targetable range of an ECM equipped Mech.

The sensor buffs are too little and unnecessary. The very nature of modules being weightless means that anyone can carry them without much sacrifice (other than missing out on other modules). This means that anyone can mount the module for the radar boost, thus ECM mechs will continue to have radar superiority over non ECM mechs. See image below:

* By default ECM mechs have 600m radar advantage over non ECM mechs. The additional modules simply agitate the issue.

Paul said there would be possibly be small changes towards ECM. In the end there were no changes to ECM itself. Only buffs to previous techs. For the cost and weight, ECM will continue to be the hot ticket item. In anticipation of facing ECM, players will be coerced in equipping:

• TAG: if it wasn't for ECM this wouldn't even be used. Instead buff TAG in a way to make it useful despite ECM.
  
• PPC: We were promised EMP properties, which means it should be affecting several, if not all, electronics. Instead, it appears PPC will only become a full time ECM counter.
  
• Sensor modules: The whole module system works a lot like perks from CoD. You add some random buffs to your character, ie a bad system. 50m aren't changing anything. It is good to see that the sensor modules are now working against ECM, as was originally promised in the previous patch.

Again I say this kind of balancing, having the game revolve around ECM, is the wrong route to take. I can't be alone in thinking this is absurd. This is not the desired route I would have like to have seen taken. Oh, well this is better than nothing. We shall see how it plays out in a couple of weeks.

Edited by StalaggtIKE, 30 January 2013 - 07:26 AM.

[Silent]

5th Fedcom Rat, on 29 January 2013 - 03:04 PM, said:

Going back to the original (trolling) thread title, what does ECM have to do with Pubbies? Last time I checked, it was all the premade teams/merc corps who were whining most about ECM because it ruined their 8 man games and "forced" them to drop as 4 man pugstomping groups.

Sounds like a ghost story from the mouth of someone that has never played in an 8-man.

[anonymous175]

*shrugs*

More counters, more better. Why worry?

[Kristov Kerensky]

StalaggtIKE, on 29 January 2013 - 03:22 PM, said:

*snip*

Yeah..see...your stand is that ECM IS broken and must be rebalanced.

PGI's stand and my own as well, along with many others, is that ECM is not broken and doesn't need to be rebalanced. We've been told for a while now that PPCs would be getting an EMP effect, it's something that the weapon's supposed to do, part of what makes it so deadly, and we'd figured that it would cause ECM to fail for whowever long the EMO effect lasted. Hey, we were right!

Question is, is that EMP effect ONLY going to work vs ECM or will it be on all the electronics? Will the HUD get fuzzy, will locks be lost, and so on...that's my only question about the EMP effect.

[Orzorn]

Kristov Kerensky, on 29 January 2013 - 03:46 PM, said:

PGI's stand and my own as well, along with many others, is that ECM is not broken and doesn't need to be rebalanced.

Garth himself said they thought it was.

As I said before; I don't believe this is the final 'change' to ECM. PPCs were slated to get an EMP effect before Garth ever even made that comment.

[Major Scumbag]

Odd you guys are crying about pubbies crying. You guys have to much time on your hand talking about this kinda stuff. Get a Job.

[LoneUnknown]

wynce, on 29 January 2013 - 12:13 PM, said:

The lack of willingness to admit ECM is broke is astounding. More and more convoluted changes are being added to the game to counter ECM. ECM needs to be fixed, not tweeking 30 other things to balance ECM. Just tweek ECM.

They are treating the symptoms as opposed to the disease.

[Texas Merc]

I think we all know where this is going.

My only question is, "are we there yet?"

[Tarman]

Texas Merc, on 29 January 2013 - 04:08 PM, said:

I think we all know where this is going.

My only question is, "are we there yet?"

I thought we were there on page one.

[General Discussion Kerensky]

Lieutenant Dixon Maxwell sat disconsolately on the wedge-shaped foot of his Stalker. The huge cigar-shaped `Mech loomed overhead like a heavy metal zeppelin, and Dixon stared up at the underside of its bullet-shaped snout. Metal gleamed in the dim light of the Mechbay, and the scent of sweat and the tangy aroma of `Mech coolant assaulted his nostrils. He tipped his head back, his skull striking the Stalker's lower leg with a muffled clang.

Fat and barrel-chested, Sgt. Geoffrey Barnes settled in beside him. "Somethin' on your mind, Lieutenant?"

Dixon let out a slow sigh. "Yeah, I guess you could say that. Sarge, I know you're not a Mechwarrior, but how do I deal with an ECM-equipped opforce?"

"We fixed that issue your targeting computer was having tracking fast targets. Y'want my expert opinion? Just shoot `em," Barnes replied with a chuckle. He glanced upwards at Maxwell's stalker then did a double-take. The bulk of five LRM-20s turned the `Mech's normally sleek outline into a bulbous caricature. Barnes found his face resting squarely in the palm of his hand before he even realized he'd moved.

"Lieutenant," Barnes asked, "Y'ever considered bringin' a secondary weapon?"

"Yeah," Dixon replied. "But the Streak SRMs weren't working well so I stripped them out."

Barnes shook his head. "Y'tried any normal SRMs? They spread out more but that just means they can hit a light in the legs--and a legged `Mech is a dead `Mech. Heck, even some lasers'll help you do the job. Just lead the target a little and let `em walk right into the beam. I promise your targeting computer's fixed, you won't have the same problem hitting anything even if you can't target it. Heck, I bet we could mount a couple of ER PPCs in the arms if you're really worried. Some charged particles ought to interfere with the ECM somethin' awful."