258 replies to this topic

[Narcissistic Martyr]

There will be a clan faction and an IS faction and the two techs shall never mingle or IS tech and chassis becomes worthless instantly. Balance will instead be achieved through superior numbers on the IS side.

[Bhael Fire]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 30 January 2013 - 07:56 PM, said:

kinda moer interested in what the devs are doing not you pimping your thread

I posted it so that people that care to understand will know what I'm talking about when I say clan tech will not be available to IS mechs in MWO.

[Joker Two]

They have to matchmake it correctly, probably 5 Clantech vs. 8 IS tech, which both fits organizational schemes and is an approximate balance. However, if they allow Clantech on IS chassis, those MUST be counted as Clan 'Mechs for matchmaking, otherwise any such matchmaking scheme is worthless.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Bhael Fire, on 30 January 2013 - 08:01 PM, said:

I posted it so that people that care to understand will know what I'm talking about when I say clan tech will not be available to IS mechs in MWO.

Thats why you need to change "will not" to "I think it will not" because youre not a dev so you cant speak for what theyre going to or not going to do.
Its your opinion as to what you think they will do, not fact. Saying "this will not happen" is you purporting your opinion as fact and why I said to link a thread where the DEVS (not you) say what youre saying

[Lindonius]

Narcissistic Martyr, on 30 January 2013 - 07:59 PM, said:

There will be a clan faction and an IS faction and the two techs shall never mingle or IS tech and chassis becomes worthless instantly. Balance will instead be achieved through superior numbers on the IS side.

How are we going to have enough IS pilots to maintain a 5 or 6 v 8 ratio when most people will want to be piloting the new toys?

I see a lot of "failed to find a match" messages as players sit in their shiny new clan mechs waiting for enough people to decide to go back to the IS mechs just so that they can find a match.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

chfcgfhfghfjgghjzsfhk nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnfghfgh

my cat says hi -.-

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 30 January 2013 - 08:11 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

holy crap.... i really kicked the hornets nest here.....

Brilig, on 30 January 2013 - 03:01 PM, said:

I don't know about the mechs themselves, but there is a lot they can do to balance the technology.

They could make all clan weapons run a bunch hotter than their IS counterparts. More damage, better range with a heat penalty. That could help keep them from being OP.

the thing is.. Clan Tech is supposed to be OP compared to the IS, and the balance was their numbers and rules of conduct...... so balancing the weapons to the IS standard is already.. wrong? I just really don't know.

[Bishop Steiner]

SmoothCriminal, on 30 January 2013 - 03:11 PM, said:

Clan tech will be released when this game officially launches. The PR from the iconic designs will surely help bring in nubcakes. Personally, if we allow mixtech, I don't see them being that imba. Hunchback 4P with 9ER medium lasers? A stalker with 4 Clan (ER) PPCs? equal if not better than their clan equivalents. In the end it's just cosmetics and hardpoints.

the issue... is at least initially. the Inner Sphere forces aren't supposed to have access, or anyway to fix, Clan Tech. Eventually it'll happen, but if they just open the weapons too soon.. we have MW4.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Bishop Steiner, on 30 January 2013 - 08:14 PM, said:

the thing is.. Clan Tech is supposed to be OP compared to the IS, and the balance was their numbers and rules of conduct...... so balancing the weapons to the IS standard is already.. wrong? I just really don't know.

I kinda did this poll once http://mwomercs.com/...ost&f=9&t=86122

[Hotthedd]

Bishop Steiner, on 30 January 2013 - 08:14 PM, said:

holy crap.... i really kicked the hornets nest here.....



the thing is.. Clan Tech is supposed to be OP compared to the IS, and the balance was their numbers and rules of conduct...... so balancing the weapons to the IS standard is already.. wrong? I just really don't know.

I do not think the weapons should be balanced, just eventually available to all, balancing the 'mechs.

[Bishop Steiner]

Joseph Mallan, on 30 January 2013 - 03:16 PM, said:

See heres the rub Bishop, I am buying into this game expecting the Clans to roll the Inner sphere for about 2 years. The Clans literally obliterated hundreds of commands. Mercilessly crushed everything in their path. Anything less and we will not be playing the Clan Invasion.

exactly.... but if they do that.. the cries of unfair and hypocrisy will be insane from the casual crowd. I sooo want what you describe, but will they be able to deliver it, will IGP allow them too?

[Bhael Fire]

Lindonius, on 30 January 2013 - 08:07 PM, said:

How are we going to have enough IS pilots to maintain a 5 or 6 v 8 ratio when most people will want to be piloting the new toys?

I will gladly use one of my IS mechs if the enemy is outnumbered. I think you underestimate how many IS fans there are in the BT community.

People keep thinking it's gonna be "easy street" for clan mechs...I don't see that happening. I see lonely stars of clanners up against the odds. I have faith that the matches with be balanced in such a way that either side will be a desirable choice.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Bishop Steiner, on 30 January 2013 - 08:19 PM, said:

exactly.... but if they do that.. the cries of unfair and hypocrisy will be insane from the casual crowd. I sooo want what you describe, but will they be able to deliver it, will IGP allow them too?

we already arent going to be allowed to fight on storyline worlds... Im thinking we WONT be fighting in the war

[Stingz]

Bhael Fire, on 30 January 2013 - 08:21 PM, said:

I will gladly use one of my IS mechs if the enemy is outnumbered. I think you underestimate how many IS fans there are in the BT community.

People keep thinking it's gonna be "easy street" for clan mechs...I don't see that happening. I see lonely stars of clanners up against the odds. I have faith that the matches with be balanced in such a way that either side will be a desirable choice.

The second line mechs have more customization options than OmniMechs. Those are the Clan mech I'm looking for.

Edited by Stingz, 30 January 2013 - 08:33 PM.

[Phades]

Bishop Steiner, on 30 January 2013 - 08:19 PM, said:

exactly.... but if they do that.. the cries of unfair and hypocrisy will be insane from the casual crowd.  I sooo want what you describe, but will they be able to deliver it, will IGP allow them too?

You forget the player bias element at work too. A very small minority of players will tolerate to use inferior gear or be on the losing side consistently over a long period of time.
In an effort to "simulate" the conquest expansion, there are many other methods they could employ to have that occur on a territory style setup (implementation TBA) without encouraging the munchkins to have free reign to curb stomp the "nubs" because they don't know any better. Never mind the potential "failed to find a match" issue that will rear its head when combined with the proposed ELO *ahem* stuff.

[Bhael Fire]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 30 January 2013 - 08:06 PM, said:

Thats why you need to change "will not" to "I think it will not" because youre not a dev so you cant speak for what theyre going to or not going to do.
Its your opinion as to what you think they will do, not fact. Saying "this will not happen" is you purporting your opinion as fact and why I said to link a thread where the DEVS (not you) say what youre saying

I'm not purporting anything as "fact" — I am merely stating a logical conclusion based on many factors.

I honestly didn't mean to offend anyone.

[topgun505]

Two mechs of equal tonnage. One is IS. One is Clan. They both have heavy energy weapons loadouts, double heat sinks, and an XL engine.

For Clan units:
The double heat sinks for clans take one slot less so they can fit more on.
Their energy weapons take up less slots and produce less heat and/or do up to 50% more damage than their IS counterparts.
The XL engine takes up one less slot. Which doesn't sound like much until you realize that three crits to an engine = a dead mech ... which for an IS mech running an XL means when you lose the side torso you are dead. End of story. With a Clan mech your engine is damaged if you lose the side torso but you can keep on truckin.

So. Why in heavens name would anyone (especially anyone competitive) EVER take an IS mech over a Clan?

There is 0 reason.

The only way they could make it balanced is if they tweaked some aspects of the known CBT tech (for example, make XL engines for Clan the same 3-slot size so a side torso destruction still equals a death), .... or ... you have to make all clan mechs and equipment EXTREMELY expensive ... or you have to have limits on drops (i.e. if you take a Clan mech on a drop it uses 2 slots on your team so you can have a max of 4 clan mechs in an 8-man drop). Or some combination thereof.

Otherwise it would completely break the system.

Honestly I'd be in favor of just having AI or Dev-controlled Clan units and they are NOT available as playable units. At least at the start until the devs have had a TON of time playtesting the balance of introducing the new tech.

Another lil tid bit to point out. IS LRMs ... 180m min range. Clan LRMs ... ZERO min range. nada ... zilch ... bupkis. Not to mention they weigh considerably less. So say hello to LRM-warrior all over again.

Edited by topgun505, 30 January 2013 - 08:51 PM.

[Aaron DeChavilier]

Bishop Steiner, on 30 January 2013 - 02:48 PM, said:

"Balancing" Clan artificially to somehow make it "equalize" to the Inner Spheres tech is just plain idiotic at best . (They have 300 year SUPERIOR technology people.... That's like taking the USMC of Today and siccing it against the forces from the Revolutionary war..... technology improves... it doesn't stay balanced) The BALANCE was their own code of conduct and limited numbers (aka 5 clanners vs 8-12 Inner Sphere pilots..... something few gamers of any stripe will voluntarily choose to accept doing.)

I think you completely undermine your statement by citing:
A: clans can/wont work because of wonky game mechanics
vs
B: clans must be superior because the lore says they're superior.

If I recall, this is a video game, and video games thrive on good balance dictating game mechanics not lore dictating game mechanics.

[Lindonius]

topgun505, on 30 January 2013 - 08:48 PM, said:

There is 0 reason.

The challenge? Imagine if I went up against you in your clan mech with my IS rust bucket and BEAT you.

[Bhael Fire]

topgun505, on 30 January 2013 - 08:48 PM, said:

Why in heavens name would anyone (especially anyone competitive) EVER take an IS mech over a Clan?

There is 0 reason.

I don't know, man...I'd say 12 vs 5 (or even 8 vs 5) is pretty good reason to use an IS mech.

As I've mentioned numerous times in this thread, it's HIGHLY unlikely they will allow IS teams access to clan tech... considering that they don't successfully reverse engineer this stuff for another 8 years (3058) and any clan mechs salvaged are most certainly unlikely to be fielded this early in the invasion.

Now, I know they haven't stuck with canon 100% so far, but that's usually only when game balance is at stake. So it's unlikely they will break canon to break game balance...it wouldn't make any sense.

Edited by Bhael Fire, 30 January 2013 - 09:04 PM.