225 replies to this topic

[IceCase88]

I have said my peace. The votes support my view. We will see the outcome but I have no doubt the winner will be "ECM is fine." Enjoyed the healthy debate. See you on the battlefield! gl and hf.

[Nightcrept]

IceCase88, on 04 February 2013 - 12:03 AM, said:

I have said my peace.  The votes support my view.  We will see the outcome but I have no doubt the winner will be "ECM is fine."  Enjoyed the healthy debate.  See you on the battlefield!  gl and hf.

The votes support your view? What in the world poll are you looking at?

[Critical Fumble]

Where are the options for:

"This is a 'team-based' game, and yet there is a mechanic that takes out the only useful in-game coms." Actually, scratch that, there are enough similar options in that list.

How about, "Because you have conditions where LRMs and SSRMs are inoperable, you can only safely bring them in builds or premade teams built around them, making them boat-only weapons."

[Kaspirikay]

Lol. Icecase. Lol.

[Moromillas]

IceCase88, on 03 February 2013 - 09:06 PM, said:

Oh no! You got me! You used 1/4 of one sentence to say my entire post is invalid. lol. Really, Guy? Come up with something better. Sorry to ask you to tax your mind a bit more.

You make this long *** argument about why you think ECM is fine, which is fair enough. Then you but on the end of it "but hurts the gamestyle you like." Which basically means, ignore everything I just said, this is what I really mean, and it directly contradicts your long *** argument.

**** that ****.

Just say what you mean and don't dance around with rhetorical nonsense. You want to say ECM hurts certain gamestyles and you're fine with that, then just say that.

[WhiteCatInsurgency]

"The only real counter to ECM is ECM"

This is perhaps the biggest issue and its not on the list. ECM counters ECM counters ECM counters ECM ... Surely its not difficult to see why this is stupid. Everyone just stacks it on as many mechs as possible and in the end 1 team has +1 ECM and has a huge advantage. That is horrible design given how many mechs cant carry ECM.

If you are a light, or an assault and you don't have ECM you are currently at high risk of throwing the game for your team.

[p4r4g0n]

DocBach, on 03 February 2013 - 02:55 PM, said:

Communication and coordination is already non-existent in this game for most casual players - ECM destroys what little cohesion they have even further. It's also pretty much narrowed gameplay and tactics towards everything revolving around it.

QFT ... current solo strategy --> blob & brawl.

Pretty much changed game play which I really thought was better pre ECM. Even though I don't see as many ECM mechs since the stalker was introduced, ECM does still affect mech / weapon choice and gameplay.

Expect to see more PPCs moving forward and its already starting now. Amazing how much impact a 1.5 ton passive piece of equipment has on the entire game.

Edited by p4r4g0n, 04 February 2013 - 01:35 AM.

[Gargoth]

ECM is fine.

I feel lights mech without ECM are more useless after it.

I feel frustrated for the lack of TAG use when i pug.

I really dont feel ECM in itself is overpowered, rather... it is just frustrating to see battlefield full of light mechs, with ECM, nonECM light mechs are becoming a bit of a rare sight, same goes for atlai, mostly, i see D-DC, with ECM SRM6 x3 and some other weapons, than plain, simple founder atlas, or RS.

ECM is not overpowered, its player side of a problem mostly, people dont know how to target with heat vision, they dont know how to utilize TAG, or they just generally give up and use ECM, because everyone else does.

i couldnt actually care less what kind of ECM there is on the business end of my PPC's or Autocannons... they all fall.
If i use LRM's, i mostly equip TAG as well.

problems?

[Skoll Lokeson]

As I'm reading this ~83% think ECM isn't fine for a huge number of reasons. Personally I just think it makes the game less fun and more repetitious in general. I mostly use it to break a loosing steak and it usually works.

[Alik Kerensky]

One Medic Army, on 03 February 2013 - 03:27 PM, said:

I would agree with you if they made 2 changes:
1) Friendlies continued to show locations when under ECM
2) TAG would allow you to designate targets for yourself only while under ECM, instead of TAG being useless when inside the bubble.

That right there makes it so SSRMs aren't restricted to ECM mechs or mechs with ECM partners, and also negates the ability to use ECM to single people out because they don't know where all the friendlies went.

I think this is workable and should be considered by the DEVs

1453 R, on 03 February 2013 - 03:28 PM, said:

I don't particularly appreciate ECM completely removing both LRMs and Streak missiles from the pool of viable weapons. I'm perfectly fine with ECM putting additional stress on those systems via longer lock times and forcing enemies to lose their locks faster under the influence of ECM, but as it stands I have adapted to ECM - by not using guided missiles, ever.

This bothers me. I don't like seeing entire weapon types being taken out of the game by a single piece of lightweight, widely available equipment. Not much of an LRM guy myself anyways, but I do feel bad for the people who used to like Streak missiles and haven't gotten a single Streak lock in their last five matches.

That said...it's not killing the game, it's just bottlenecking it right now. Fights go on just fine through ECM haze, and at the very least all those LRM boats are learning how valuable the medium lasers they kept stripping for more LRM ammunition really are.

The word 'Bottleneck' hits the problem right on the head... not a killing blow, but pretty limiting.

Odins Fist, on 03 February 2013 - 03:06 PM, said:

ECM is fine... Move along now, nothing to see here.

If ECM is fine as you say... it would block all 3rd party communication software and muzzle you and your friends if you were in the same room so you cannot effectively coordinate your strikes either. You would be on your own more or less, sensor deaf and sensor blind.

Edited by Alik Kerensky, 04 February 2013 - 01:56 AM.

[Furmansky]

I'm not voting here cause I don't think ECM is OP, In my point of view ECM, and whole Sensors radar system is just broken.
There is no electronic warfare in this game, its just you turn your ECM ON, my sensors are off. There is no counter to that than other ECM. doesn't matter if I have BAP and all so called advanced sensor modules ECM just makes them useless. For example even if I would boat 6 SSRMS2 on A1 it makes me not able to do absolutely nothing against ECM 1 V 1... there is no stone, paper scissors... only ECM. 1 Boat OP build doesn't justify bringing another broken in....
Yes It doesn't make ECM guys invincible, I can kill them same as others with different weaponry, but it is a system without a counter, makes few weapons absolutely useless and basically its a wildly available invisibility cloak for sensors nothing more. If someone calls it information and electronic warfare then my car with its parking sensors, mirrors and radio would be OP in MWO. Any way devs stated that ECM is still worked on, so I wait and see but I wish we could actually get useful sensors, radar and other electronic equipment. There is plenty of ideas, possibilities, plain and simple logical solutions... but priority is on modules and new ( hero ) mechs.

[Taizan]

ECM is fine once full info warfare is in. On it's own it seems OP-ish.

[Karl Streiger]

Teamkill is an issue - when you don't have TAG - you need TAG on every mech.
I really loved the moment when i got punished for killing a black Atlas....well there was two of them. One of them was in my team, the other was in the other team.
I waited for two or tree seconds than I opened fire... well my call but wrong decision

[CECILOFS]

Moromillas, on 04 February 2013 - 12:47 AM, said:

You make this long *** argument about why you think ECM is fine, which is fair enough. Then you but on the end of it "but hurts the gamestyle you like." Which basically means, ignore everything I just said, this is what I really mean, and it directly contradicts your long *** argument.

**** that ****.

Just say what you mean and don't dance around with rhetorical nonsense. You want to say ECM hurts certain gamestyles and you're fine with that, then just say that.

Exactly this. What Icecase means is that ECM hurts the LRM play style, but not HIS direct-fire play style, so its fine. (Even though it does cause you can't single out damaged armour).

LRMs are supposed to be powerful, understand? Guided weapons are a part of the lore and are supposed to be powerful. They can always use more balancing, but they NEED to be useable weapons, even in Pug games.

The problem is that FPS fans and direct-fire weapon fans consider twitch-based aiming the only skill worthy in this game. They ignore that other skills are needed like positioning, situational awareness, tactics, team work and cover use. Effective LRM use relies more heavily on the latter and not on twitch-based aiming, so it doesn't get as much respect.

Edited by CECILOFS, 04 February 2013 - 03:49 AM.

[Gargoth]

CECILOFS, on 04 February 2013 - 03:40 AM, said:

Exactly this. What Icecase means is that ECM hurts the LRM play style, but not HIS direct-fire play style, so its fine. (Even though it does cause you can't single out damaged armour).

as i said before, direct fire weapons are "kind of" counter to ECM, but not full.
I feel sorry for streak pilots out there, but with teamplay, LRM's will work against ECM, there is one thing, called TAG, tends to help

i just wonder... if ECM is so overpowered, why people are STILL crying wolf about "LRM warrior online" ?

[Amonchakad]

It might have already been mentioned earlier in the thread, but possibly my biggest gripe with ECM (along with the fact that it makes non-ECM-able mechs plain inferior) is that it pretty much forces me to use thermal all the time.
Due to the (in my opinion) poor graphic rendition of the game, I have a very hard time seeing far away mechs against the omnipresent dull background, and with the removal of long-range spotting, I just have to constantly see the maps as a nice blurb of blue in order to see far enemies.

[Havyek]

I use both guided and non-guided weapons, ECM and non-ECM 'Mechs, ECM was a PITA on light 'Mechs during the heights of the lag shield.

Now that lights are (more or less) reliably taking hits like they should, the only way to take them out has gone from shoot them with SSRMs to shoot them with weapons.

The biggest "nerf" to ECM was the improvement of the netcode.

[The Basilisk]

While I'm basicaly ok with the functionality ECM in its current state there are some issues that are caused through the combination of ECM and other gear on certain chassis.
ECM Raven ( 3L ), the ECM Commando, and in a minor form the ECM Atlas.
The ECM Raven and Commandos combine gear that hampers or nullyfies enemys target following weapons and targeting gear while they carry target following weapons themselfs.
Combined with their mobility and the still pretty unpredictable targeting situation when targeting smal and fast mechs, this guys are a hazard for everyones bloodpressure.
Basicaly the same goes for the AS7-D-DC but its large size and slower movement makes the ecm advantage less overwhelming.

[Cybermech]

were is the option for "atlas blob ruins my game" option??

[StalaggtIKE]

You forgot an option for those of us who use ECM, yet feels it's unfair. Perhaps:

• It doesn't. ECM is easy mode.

Something along those lines.