158 replies to this topic

[JadePanther]

Etics?? we dont need no stinkin etics..

but anyway i gotta get back to watchin this guy try to get 2 utes off of a murder rap..

[AlexWildeagle]

DCM Zeus, on 05 February 2013 - 01:59 PM, said:

Welcome to beta.

And yes PGI has every right to do what they see fit to fix, break or improve on this game.

He purchased those with REAL money. That's called retail. And he has a valid point. Does not matter if it's beta or not, once people start spending real money you have to respect that. If this were real beta and people weren't dumping real money into the game then you'd be correct.

Of course I wouldn't waste my money on something I can't see anyway.

[MustrumRidcully]

Pihoqahiak, on 05 February 2013 - 02:42 PM, said:

Some of you will be in for a rude awakening if they extend this tactic to other aspects of the game... like mechs.

I think it would only be a rude awakening for those that had a rude awakening with the colors. The truth is, I would have expected no refunds at all. Maybe you would have kept whatever you had before, but your colors and patterns would be non-permanent and the MC and C-Bills lost forever. This way is extremely fair and I underestimated PGI in this regard.

I would not be surprised - before nor after this - if PGI would end up changing certain mechs after you bought them. Heck, they just changed a bunch of items you already bought with C-Bills. I find it less likely that they'd remove a mech from your inventory ever (with or without a refund), however. Unless they ditch the entire mech, I doubt there will be a need for that.

[GODzillaGSPB]

Bulu, on 05 February 2013 - 01:58 PM, said:

so,if i want my franken atlas back i cant have it because now it cost me much more.ive already purchased the franken colors, they were mine and they dont have the moral right to undo the deal without my permision. dont care if i agreed or not somewhere

So you don't care whether you agreed to something or not. Why should they care then?

[Cole Allard]

AlexWildeagle, on 06 February 2013 - 05:06 AM, said:

He purchased those with REAL money. That's called retail. And he has a valid point. Does not matter if it's beta or not, once people start spending real money you have to respect that. If this were real beta and people weren't dumping real money into the game then you'd be correct.

Of course I wouldn't waste my money on something I can't see anyway.

Wrong,

scroll up to my former post just above you. Read the terms of service, the answer is hidden there.

[Joseph Mallan]

FactorlanP, on 05 February 2013 - 02:03 PM, said:

I redid all my mechs back to how they looked pre-patch. I ended up with about 250MC more then pre-patch.

I purchased my old forest Camo scheme (4 times), Murphy's law colors, Added Tiger stripes to my 4 purchased Mechs, bought Pretty Baby (named her Snowflake). and I still have over 3,000 MC spare. Shame on the DEVs for doing this!

[DeeZNuttS]

I dont post very often but this is an issue I feel I need to address. Someone made a great point about mech bays going up in price, and if you don't have a mech occupying that spot I could honestly seeing PGI taking that mech bay and refucding MC for it. I konw its a slippery slope but if their willing to do this with one aspect of the game such as color, why not mechs? I purchased a founders pack and thought, man 120.00 thats kinda pricey but it goes toward developing the game and I got some cool content. Now even the pricings gotten out of hand. Thirty bucks for a mech? Thats insanity. Like someone said in a previous post, most games you pick up at a retailer are sixity bucks, and its finished product. Theres no way I'm spending MC unless its on bays and maybe premium time.

[HiplyRustic]

JadePanther, on 06 February 2013 - 05:06 AM, said:

Etics?? we dont need no stinkin etics..

but anyway i gotta get back to watchin this guy try to get 2 utes off of a murder rap..

dese two utes?

[Joseph Mallan]

Pihoqahiak, on 05 February 2013 - 02:42 PM, said:

Some of you will be in for a rude awakening if they extend this tactic to other aspects of the game... like mechs.

Yeah if they give me back all the money I spent on Mechs since open Beta I will be so had! I've bought and sold between 30-40 Mech chassis, Accidentally sold several Modules, Spent over 1,000,000 XP on Upgrades and Pilot perks, Oh and the GXP I have spent unlocking modules, I will be so hacked if they gave me all those points back! Yeah I'll totally be screwed so bad, that I will be able to max out every Mech I want to master in under an hour and have cash, MC, & EXP to spare! Serves me right to invest in the game both my money and valuable time!

[DeeZNuttS]

I dont post very often but this is an issue I feel I need to address. Someone made a great point about mech bays going up in price, and if you don't have a mech occupying that spot I could honestly seeing PGI taking that mech bay and refucding MC for it and charging more. I konw its a slippery slope but if their willing to do this with one aspect of the game such as color, why not mechs? I purchased a founders pack and thought, man 120.00 thats kinda pricey but it goes toward developing the game and I got some cool content. Now even the pricings gotten out of hand. Thirty bucks for a mech? Thats insanity. Like someone said in a previous post, most games you pick up at a retailer are sixity bucks, and its finished product. Theres no way I'm spending MC unless its on bays and maybe premium time.

Edited by Emerious, 06 February 2013 - 05:22 AM.

[PurpleNinja]

Grraarrgghh, on 05 February 2013 - 02:01 PM, said:

I want to shake the hand of the guy who called it that people would find something to complain about for this patch.

Did you ever thought no one will complain?

How cute.

[HiplyRustic]

Cole Allard, on 06 February 2013 - 05:08 AM, said:

Wrong,

scroll up to my former post just above you. Read the terms of service, the answer is hidden there.

Sorry Cole, but no Terms of Service override prevailing law in the applicable jurisdiction. In other words, you can accept terms of service that have "oh and we have the right the use your credit card information to buy ourselves beer and hookers" buried in them somewhere and the company would still not have the right to do so.

I don't know what the law states about the specific transactions we're talking about here, but "It's in the EULA, so you're screwed" is not only bad legal advice, it's demonstrably false.

[Matt Minus]

Emerious, on 06 February 2013 - 05:18 AM, said:

I dont post very often but this is an issue I feel I need to address. Someone made a great point about mech bays going up in price, and if you don't have a mech occupying that spot I could honestly seeing PGI taking that mech bay and refucding MC for it. I konw its a slippery slope but if their willing to do this with one aspect of the game such as color, why not mechs?

Umm...yeah...that wasn't really a great point. There would be no reason for them to raise the cost of mech bays.

They were making colors work the way that the vast majority of the community wanted them to, and the refund was so all the people that had already bought them wouldn't feel ripped off. All teh colors that you bought previously are on sale for 250mc, so no one is unable to get what they had back.

It's not like they arbitrarily decided to change prices and tried to make the change retroactive, they were looking out for their players. There is no slippery slope.

The only people that could conceivably have something to complain about are those that aren't smart enough to google "mwo pc gamer colors". Everyone else is saying "Phranken for less than a dollar? Yes, please!"

[Joseph Mallan]

AlexWildeagle, on 06 February 2013 - 05:06 AM, said:

He purchased those with REAL money. That's called retail. And he has a valid point. Does not matter if it's beta or not, once people start spending real money you have to respect that. If this were real beta and people weren't dumping real money into the game then you'd be correct.

Of course I wouldn't waste my money on something I can't see anyway.

but they gave me back every penny of real money I spent, then sold me a better product, at a discount, to where I have some of my 'money' to spare. I made out better than I did the first time around. As long as I keep getting screwed like this (where I make out to the positive) I will not Complain. I have 2 Unlocked camo schemes on 4 Mechs, the three colors of my Merc company, an extra Mech. All for the real money I paid for Mechs I painted and no longer have! Screw me like this as often as you want merchants!

[Matt Minus]

HiplyRustic, on 06 February 2013 - 05:22 AM, said:

Sorry Cole, but no Terms of Service override prevailing law in the applicable jurisdiction. In other words, you can accept terms of service that have "oh and we have the right the use your credit card information to buy ourselves beer and hookers" buried in them somewhere and the company would still not have the right to do so.

I don't know what the law states about the specific transactions we're talking about here, but "It's in the EULA, so you're screwed" is not only bad legal advice, it's demonstrably false.

Just because some EULAs might not be enforcable doesn't mean that none are. The fact that online games can change at any time seems to be widely accepted, otherwise there would be lawsuits associated with every nerf, and I would be able to cash out all my rmt when City of heroes closed down.

[HiplyRustic]

Matt Minus, on 06 February 2013 - 05:27 AM, said:

Just because some EULAs might not be enforcable doesn't mean that none are. The fact that online games can change at any time seems to be widely accepted, otherwise there would be lawsuits associated with every nerf, and I would be able to cash out all my rmt when City of heroes closed down.

Matt, I didn't said none are. I said the company is still governed by applicable laws involving retail transactions, regardless of what they get someone to agree to in a EULA. That's a fact. CoH's RMTs are not governed by EULA, they are governed by law. Some rights under law can not be signed away regardless of what you agree to.

As I also said, I don't know the applicable laws in this case.

[Mercules]

Emerious, on 06 February 2013 - 05:22 AM, said:

I dont post very often but this is an issue I feel I need to address. Someone made a great point about mech bays going up in price, and if you don't have a mech occupying that spot I could honestly seeing PGI taking that mech bay and refucding MC for it and charging more. I konw its a slippery slope but if their willing to do this with one aspect of the game such as color, why not mechs?

Except... they made camo schemes CHEAPER. Only in very rare cases where you only ever intend to paint one mech with specific colors that you will never use on any other mech did it become more expensive.

For me...

I got some of my mechs back to the way I had them before and it was MUCH cheaper because I bought the Orange once. I also applied Tiger Stripe to a whole set of chasis instead of the two that were using Forest, and bought a bright purple color I kinda like and a dull blue to contrast it with. I came out ahead on C-Bills and only a little behind on MC because I actually bought a color I never used previously but, I can now apply it to any mech I own.

[Cole Allard]

HiplyRustic, on 06 February 2013 - 05:22 AM, said:

Sorry Cole, but no Terms of Service override prevailing law in the applicable jurisdiction. In other words, you can accept terms of service that have "oh and we have the right the use your credit card information to buy ourselves beer and hookers" buried in them somewhere and the company would still not have the right to do so.

I don't know what the law states about the specific transactions we're talking about here, but "It's in the EULA, so you're screwed" is not only bad legal advice, it's demonstrably false.

What you are saying is : any terms of service is wrong and non existing, if the country the klicking person lives in has other rights. Thats true.

BUT (<- cant make it fat enough.) try to go for a refund over your Credit Card...or even better...over paypal. Just try it and tell me what reality told you.

Until I actually see people getting cash back from internet transactions (via credit), I wont belive it.

[VonRunnegen]

Ironbar Sinister, on 05 February 2013 - 06:50 PM, said:

It's just another form of currency - why is that so hard to grasp?

It's not currency, its more akin to a credit note though the analogy is flawed.

If you bought yourself a car for $1k and the car company took it back and instead of giving you your money back said 'its ok, we'll knock 1k off the price of all our other cars' when all the rest were $100k beasts you'd be pretty annoyed at them as they've taken your money and aren't giving it back, the credit is worthless if you're not willing to fork over the other $99k.

Yes, the new deal might be worth it for some, not for others. But refunding MC is NOT the same as refunding the purchase price and e-transactions here (UK) are covered by distance selling regs here so the buyers rights are enshrined in law in this country - though perhaps not where the buyer comes from. No matter what the terms of service say this doesn't change.

Edit: I agree with the above post saying actually getting money back is quite another thing to having the right to do so - but it doesn't make it inappropriate to complain about it. Being realistic doesn't mean you have to abandon your sense of justice, just know that it won't always be possible to get what's right.

Edited by VonRunnegen, 06 February 2013 - 05:58 AM.

[Silent]

Etics are what I get when I browse the internet and come across threads like this.

My eye is already starting to twitch.

Edited by Silent, 06 February 2013 - 06:01 AM.