473 replies to this topic

[Ursh]

4 mans will relish the company of a Cicada 3M with ERPPCs, blowing the f**k out of their useless lrm boats with fast sniper repositionings.

Cicadas don't spawn abomination mechs in 4 mans.

[shabowie]

Tesunie, on 15 February 2013 - 01:15 PM, said:

I dumb fire my LRMs all the time, and still hit. It's really easy actually when your target stands still because they aren't getting a warning and they seem to think LRMs can't hit them because they have ECM. I've also effectively blind fired them into foes running right at me. Or at other unaware target I can't get a lock on. It's not easy, but requires a lot of skill. Atlases particularly fall to my blind fired LRMs, as they are slow. DDCs in particular. They always seem to act shocked that LRMs are hitting them with their ECM on.

This must be the same Atlas pilots the OP was talking about who sit around and take constant PPC fire, LOL.

I doubt that kind of player is gonna get any more owned once it disables ECM than they are getting owned right now.

Edited by shabowie, 15 February 2013 - 02:20 PM.

[SpiralRazor]

Serevn, on 15 February 2013 - 10:54 AM, said:

Hey, do we know if PPCs make mechs covered by other mech's ECM target-able? Probably not, so save your baseless accusations and complaining until a while after the patch. Also the ECM disable lasts 5 seconds, so if your tactless enough to get shot continuously by PPCs and LRMs at the same time, you have different problems.

Actually yes..if your ECM is disrupted, it shuts off for 5 seconds.

Agree with Shabowie

[shabowie]

SpiralRazor, on 15 February 2013 - 02:18 PM, said:

Actually yes..if your ECM is disrupted, it shuts off for 5 seconds.

And if you are still inside another friendlies ECM bubble you still can't be targeted was his point.

[Novawrecker]

Enig, on 15 February 2013 - 10:36 AM, said:

Why don't we just do this logically and test the patch once it's out instead of fixing something that we haven't experienced yet?

WHAT?!?! How DARE you suggest something that makes sense!

You, sir, are also on my watch list *QQ eyes on j00*

[Beo Vulf]

Death Mallet, on 14 February 2013 - 09:27 AM, said:

The Problem:

LRMs never got "fixed". The problem with LRMs was only covered up by the dominance of ECM on the battlefield. Well, ECM is about to take a big hit. . . and once again the LRM boats will reap a deadly toll on everything else.

How We Got Here:

On the Feb 8 patch the heat fixes to the PPC allowed it to make a triumphant return to the battlefield. Its in widespread use again now.

On Feb 19, PPCs will now shut down ECM. Which means, AS7-D-DCs will largely become obsolete. They'll be hit with enough PPC fire that their ECM will be negated most of the time.

This leaves only the light mechs to carry the effective ECM systems.

What's Going to Happen on Feb 19:

- LRM boats are going to come back in a big way. If you're driving a heavy or assault mech, you will no longer have effective ECM cover once the PPCs start flying and, once again, you will start getting anihilated by massed LRM volleys.

- Premades will dominate PUG players more than they do now. Why? Because only the light mechs will have effective ECM due to it being harder to hit them with PPCs. On smart premade teams, the light mech drivers will be assigned to hang back and cover the heavies and assaults with their ECM. On pug teams the light mech players will charge out as they do today, leaving the heavies and assaults to get slaughtered by LRMs.

- AS7-D-DCs will gradually disappear from the battlefield. The game will come to be dominated by light mechs toting PPCs and LRM boats - probably Stalkers. Other mech types need not apply.

What can be done to fix the coming LRM apocalypse?

- Nerf LRM damage
- Increase non-ECM LRM lockon time
- Reduce LRM accuracy
- Reduce ammo/ton for LRMs
- Fix the double heat sink issue so its not biased in favor of light mechs.
http://mwomercs.com/...simplification/

. . . or all of the above.

OMG another MWO is coming to an end thread, how quaint.
Use Cover
Don't stand out in the open stationary.

[FullMetalJackass]

Death Mallet, on 14 February 2013 - 09:27 AM, said:

The Problem:

LRMs never got "fixed". The problem with LRMs was only covered up by the dominance of ECM on the battlefield. Well, ECM is about to take a big hit. . . and once again the LRM boats will reap a deadly toll on everything else.

How We Got Here:

On the Feb 8 patch the heat fixes to the PPC allowed it to make a triumphant return to the battlefield. Its in widespread use again now.

On Feb 19, PPCs will now shut down ECM. Which means, AS7-D-DCs will largely become obsolete. They'll be hit with enough PPC fire that their ECM will be negated most of the time.

This leaves only the light mechs to carry the effective ECM systems.

What's Going to Happen on Feb 19:

- LRM boats are going to come back in a big way. If you're driving a heavy or assault mech, you will no longer have effective ECM cover once the PPCs start flying and, once again, you will start getting anihilated by massed LRM volleys.

- Premades will dominate PUG players more than they do now. Why? Because only the light mechs will have effective ECM due to it being harder to hit them with PPCs. On smart premade teams, the light mech drivers will be assigned to hang back and cover the heavies and assaults with their ECM. On pug teams the light mech players will charge out as they do today, leaving the heavies and assaults to get slaughtered by LRMs.

- AS7-D-DCs will gradually disappear from the battlefield. The game will come to be dominated by light mechs toting PPCs and LRM boats - probably Stalkers. Other mech types need not apply.

What can be done to fix the coming LRM apocalypse?

- Nerf LRM damage
- Increase non-ECM LRM lockon time
- Reduce LRM accuracy
- Reduce ammo/ton for LRMs
- Fix the double heat sink issue so its not biased in favor of light mechs.
http://mwomercs.com/...simplification/

. . . or all of the above.

Well that does it I guess we can all stop playing. Game over man....game over!

Edited by FullMetalJackass, 15 February 2013 - 03:11 PM.

[Thorqemada]

Garth Erlam, on 15 February 2013 - 09:13 AM, said:

I'm pretty sure you have this all wrong, because from what I have been lead to believe, ECM makes LRM's quite literally non functional. I don't think they even fire.

LRMs work fine if your Team has more ECM than the opponent and can outnumber and counter them at will.
That means you, the ECM superior team, can use all your LRM and SSRM.

The opponent on the receiving end can not use them bcs he cant lock on you, so the ECM inferior team has its lock on weapons disabled.

TAG - no, its not the solution bcs the ECM superior side can still use "indirect" fire while the ECM inferior side has to expose their LRM boats into the enemy LOS to get a target lock only able to use the direct fire mode.
This is also true for dumbfiring missiles when you leave aside the fact that unguided LRMs are to slow to hit even a snailing Atlas.

Though my guess is you be a troll here

Edited by Thorqemada, 15 February 2013 - 03:16 PM.

[Lycrin]

I do agree that ECM is overpowered and that shadows over the ability for someone to use missiles effectively. The only real way around ECM when using LRMs is to use TAG and still that can be a little iffy. Still don't understand why they made it so that one of the atlas's can equip ECM but none of the jenner variants can.

[Solis Obscuri]

After 7 months playing MWO, I can still count all the time LRMs have killed me, with fingers left over.

If you're crying already that PPCs are OP because you cant play without lolbrokenECM, you should probably consider learning how to actually play instead of crutching.

[Mr Everything]

As a Member of His Faction I appologize for his Short Sighted Comments,

We in Davion Space do use Cover and Good tactics and only a few are Scared by a Weapon that is designed to KILL YOU.

AND again here on New Avalon The Davion Royal House Guards Has our own Factory where they Produce LRMs and I am Sure he has access to LRMs also so I am Sure He could Equip some in his Units Mechs, If he Personally only uses Energy Weapons that is OK too but that is His Personal Choice.

Please Do not Bias your Opinion Of the Federated Suns Units We welcome a new Challenge and relish in the chance to Score Honorably

We will See what the devs and the community feels after a week or two of these rules

[anonymous175]

[RancorZealot]

Raalic, on 14 February 2013 - 09:28 AM, said:

Good thing I have a 4 LRM15 Stalker for lols.

Good thing I run 5x LRM20 Stalkers for the lols

[Wintersdark]

Nightcrept, on 14 February 2013 - 02:34 PM, said:

No one with one iota of brain power and experience in this game runs out in the open and lets you hold tag on them. So your points about tag are insane. Use tag and I'll play exactly like I always do. I always stay near cover and when the lrms are in the air I back up behind cover. Tag can't do diddly against that simple basic strategy. All ppc's have to do is to hit my d-dc one and not only can I be targeted but my ecm field is disrupted. Is this going to make lrms op. No. Not unless players play out in the open like they do apparently against your tag.I would say your just very simple minded. Tag is useless. PPc is more useful but will not have a large effect on the lrm's.

See, this is deeply flawed.

I'm sure it works wonderfully in 1V1 situations, but as soon as team play is involved your whole post is tossed out the window. LRM's are extremely potent in team play. If my LRM's hold you in cover, then you can't break LOS to my teammates when they flank you. If you do move to get out of their line of fire, you move into mine.

Even if my LRM's do no damage to you whatsoever, if they can hold you in one position so my lancemates can kill you, they do their job.

[wanderer]

And of course, this also doesn't take into account the people who -really- think ahead and mount a PPC next to their LRM launchers.

Long as you can keep hammering PPC bolts into the target, you've got something you can light up with LRMs again.

[Asmudius Heng]

Tesunie, on 15 February 2013 - 01:15 PM, said:

I dumb fire my LRMs all the time, and still hit. It's really easy actually when your target stands still because they aren't getting a warning and they seem to think LRMs can't hit them because they have ECM. I've also effectively blind fired them into foes running right at me. Or at other unaware target I can't get a lock on. It's not easy, but requires a lot of skill. Atlases particularly fall to my blind fired LRMs, as they are slow. DDCs in particular. They always seem to act shocked that LRMs are hitting them with their ECM on.

You must be fighting morons then.

If you are such a great player ELO will match you with people who know not to stand still, and to use thier eeys to see streams of LRMs coming at them.

Don't use bad playes to justify bad game mechanics

[miscreant]

Death Mallet, on 14 February 2013 - 09:27 AM, said:

The Problem:

LRMs never got "fixed". The problem with LRMs was only covered up by the dominance of ECM on the battlefield. Well, ECM is about to take a big hit. . . and once again the LRM boats will reap a deadly toll on everything else.

How We Got Here:

On the Feb 8 patch the heat fixes to the PPC allowed it to make a triumphant return to the battlefield. Its in widespread use again now.

On Feb 19, PPCs will now shut down ECM. Which means, AS7-D-DCs will largely become obsolete. They'll be hit with enough PPC fire that their ECM will be negated most of the time.

This leaves only the light mechs to carry the effective ECM systems.

What's Going to Happen on Feb 19:

- LRM boats are going to come back in a big way. If you're driving a heavy or assault mech, you will no longer have effective ECM cover once the PPCs start flying and, once again, you will start getting anihilated by massed LRM volleys.

- Premades will dominate PUG players more than they do now. Why? Because only the light mechs will have effective ECM due to it being harder to hit them with PPCs. On smart premade teams, the light mech drivers will be assigned to hang back and cover the heavies and assaults with their ECM. On pug teams the light mech players will charge out as they do today, leaving the heavies and assaults to get slaughtered by LRMs.

- AS7-D-DCs will gradually disappear from the battlefield. The game will come to be dominated by light mechs toting PPCs and LRM boats - probably Stalkers. Other mech types need not apply.

What can be done to fix the coming LRM apocalypse?

- Nerf LRM damage
- Increase non-ECM LRM lockon time
- Reduce LRM accuracy
- Reduce ammo/ton for LRMs
- Fix the double heat sink issue so its not biased in favor of light mechs.
http://mwomercs.com/...simplification/

. . . or all of the above.

I think I puked a little.

[Tesunie]

Asmudius Heng, on 15 February 2013 - 07:15 PM, said:

You must be fighting morons then.

If you are such a great player ELO will match you with people who know not to stand still, and to use thier eeys to see streams of LRMs coming at them.

Don't use bad playes to justify bad game mechanics

I might be, or they don't think anyone's seen them till the LRMs are hitting them. Then, they turn to see where the damage is coming from and see that LRMs are hitting them. By then, I'm already hiding behind a wall, so they don't see me.

I'm not saying I'm a great player, but I do tend to have a nasty knack for my ability to blind fire LRMs and still hit my targets. ELO may place me with more skilled players, or maybe on the bottom of the rungs. I don't know. (I think it will depend upon which mech I'm using more than anything else there.) I tend to be able to guess where that slow moving mech will go and launch LRMs to try and intercept them. It can work. Is it more accurate than a lock and fire? No. But it's better than nothing when the enemy team has ECM.

I'm not using bad players to justify anything. I'm using my own personal experience and what I tend to see as reactions to my actions in the game. If they happen to just be bad players, then I see them all over the place as they keep letting me hit them. (Also, I tend to use LRM5s in groups, which reload really fast. This means I often times have several flights of missiles in the air. Hence how two or three volleys can hit a target that stood still too long.)

This is when my statement of using LRMs require skill to use comes in... http://mwomercs.com/...00#entry1814400

[Sharp Spikes]

jay35, on 14 February 2013 - 11:18 AM, said:

I'm just thankful the devs don't listen to these sort of posts. This game would be terrible if they did.

You mean it would be EVEN WORSE than it is now? That's possible, but not easy to achieve.

Garth Erlam, on 14 February 2013 - 12:19 PM, said:

...
Consider the disadvantages of LRM's vs. direct fire weapons:

• Min range 180 metres.
  
• Damage is spread out.
  
• Damage can be negated entirely by a target moving into cover.
  
• Without a spotter, you need to see the target.
  
• ECM prevents a lock.
  
• AMS cuts down the damage of each volley.

Okay.
In tabletop:
YOU CAN NOT FIRE LRM WITHOUT LOS ON YOUR TARGET! (To be precise, you can, but with special ammo and spotter with TAG within 270m from target)
Min range 180 metres.
Damage is spread out.
Damage can be negated partially if target has partial cover.
AMS cuts down the damage of each volley.

Despite the need to balance out all that disadvantages, LRM damage is 1 per missile (instead of 1.8 in MWO), and 1 ton of LRM ammo contains 120 missiles (instead of 180 in MWO).
And it's balanced pretty well.

What we have in MWO now is "coin toss" balance: if one team lacks ECM it will be obliterated by LRM-boats. If not - LRM-boats will have chance to fire 1 or 2 times before it'll come to inevitable meelee with splatcats. "Working as intended" eh?

Edited by Sharp Spikes, 15 February 2013 - 10:04 PM.

[ArmandTulsen]

BDU Havoc, on 15 February 2013 - 12:27 PM, said:

Quoted for... well, a lot.