141 replies to this topic

[DeaconW]

Fireside, on 19 February 2013 - 06:27 PM, said:

But the whole pugs vs premades drama is a direct result of having no properly integrated voice chat system. Thats it.... The only advantage premades have ever had over pugs is that they can talk to each other.

Um...that is a bit simplistic...premades also have experience working together, practice together, develop tactics together....it's like saying a pickup football team can beat the local college team if they only had jerseys...besides, there are multiple voice chat choices out there that would be superior to whatever PGI would pick as a "one size fits all" solution.

Fergrim, on 20 February 2013 - 04:14 AM, said:

It'd be interesting to have everyone's KDR next to their profile pic so we know where they are coming from.

I think KDR shouldn't even be on the player stats page. The thing that should be promoted is wins/losses. This is a TEAM sport.

[Dauphni]

Jason Parker, on 20 February 2013 - 02:39 AM, said:

And to be honest amongst other things it is the numerous ******** people like you from most of the groups post in here that makes me not want to be a part of your groups or go to your beloved free TS Servers because most of you come across as serious asshats that love trolling and flaming and are generally people I'd not be comfortable being around.

I just want to say that not everyone playing the game is that bad. Yes, there's plenty of venomous trolls on these forums, but they're only a subset of the people playing MWO. From personal experience, I can say that most of the people from House Marik are quite agreeable. And like you said, the folks from Murphy's Law seem like an excellent bunch as well. I believe it's a lot like real life in this regard. Once you become more organised as a community, social norms can be put in place, and enforced to prevent a lot of asshattery. I don't like to beat my own drum too much, but the unit I'm part of has a strict ‘no douche’ policy, and it really shows in the kind of people it attracts.

[JAFO]

Jason Parker, on 20 February 2013 - 02:39 AM, said:

Are you really that ignorant?

Not ALL of those "dedicated Battletech Players" are dropping in organized Teams all the Time. I am a solo pugger AND a dedicated Battletech/Mechwarrior Player and I am well aware that this game is about teamplay and I really enjoy when I am in a team that is able to focus fire without having to deal with that annoying chatsystem. And I appreciate the work PGI does here, allthough I was not hit by the problem yesterday.

And to be honest amongst other things it is the numerous ******** people like you from most of the groups post in here that makes me not want to be a part of your groups or go to your beloved free TS Servers because most of you come across as serious asshats that love trolling and flaming and are generally people I'd not be comfortable being around.

Just about the only group that has active posters in this forums and is seemingly a nice and sane bunch are those folks from Murphy's Law.

Oh please. Your nothing but a Troll and flaming yourself. Go solo Pug your way to another game because If you were such a dedicated battletech player you would have been a founder. No money, no job? that's your problem.

[Chrithu]

JAFO, on 20 February 2013 - 05:04 AM, said:

Go solo Pug your way to another game because If you were such a dedicated battletech player you would have been a founder. No money, no job? that's your problem.

QED.

Case closed.

Well played sir.

[Fergrim]

Okay, yeah, team wins and losses can be way more indicative of ability.

Any measure of player experience and "tier" could really help the devs assess the circumstances surrounding our complaints and opinions, given the many different ways of enjoying the game.

(IE a solo player with a .5 kdr, negative wins/losses, who is screaming bloody murder over the latest flavor of the month, every month)

Edited by Fergrim, 20 February 2013 - 05:20 AM.

[Hammerhai]

Well, I did not get enough time under the belt to judge ELO, here is hoping you will fix it quickly. I averaged one fail every 2 launches, which was bearable.
What got me - again - was the ninja CTD and "4 fps" bugs.
Anyways, good luck to the guys pulling 24 hour shifts now to put this in place.

[Fergrim]

JAFO, on 20 February 2013 - 05:04 AM, said:

Oh please. Your nothing but a Troll and flaming yourself. Go solo Pug your way to another game because If you were such a dedicated battletech player you would have been a founder. No money, no job? that's your problem.

I completely agree here. (although I didn't find this game until open beta, as my google searches were all for Mechwarrior 5) And the troll you're responding to is exactly the sort of whiner that makes me glow with joy at my own enjoyment of the game.

This may come off as troll'y because it is; however it sounds to me as if they are enforcing their own lack of enjoyment by refusing to change their play style (took me a few weeks before I figured out I should get a regular lance to play with). It's basically a form of willful ignorance.

And, essentially, he who is happy always wins. I'll side with the players enjoying the game any time.

"I refuse to learn to get better"
"I refuse to get involved in the community"
"I refuse to play with a team"
"I refuse to quit playing (although I'm fine with threatening to quit!)"

"AND I DEMAND YOU CATER TO ME"

For those of you who play solo AND enjoy it... God freaking bless you, I respect you lone wolves who play well and have fun.

Edited by Fergrim, 20 February 2013 - 05:20 AM.

[jay35]

I dunno, ever since they reverted to MatchMaking v2, the game's been matching me up in some great games, both in solo drops and in 4-mans. The matches are almost immediate and yet they're mostly balanced. I bet it's because so many people are trying the new mech, so there's plenty of Mediums to balance with, where as before this they were rarely used.

[JAFO]

Jason Parker, on 20 February 2013 - 05:09 AM, said:

QED.

Case closed.

Well played sir.

I find it amusing that you created your account in December 2011, well before the founders packs were even issued yet you didn't put up any money like alot of other people did and you claim your a "Dedicated Battletech Player" then Flame someones opinion on here. You don't have much ground to stand on.

If you want to play this game solo and PUG, please do and have fun.

[Chrithu]

Fergrim, on 20 February 2013 - 05:17 AM, said:

For those of you who play solo AND enjoy it... God freaking bless you, I respect you lone wolves who play well and have fun.

Where did I say I wasn't having fun? I most of the time have and the one match out of maybe 20 I get seemingly "PUGstomped" there still is at least 50% of the fault to be found in the team I was in that is why I welcome MM Phase III because it does help.

If you had read his post I responded to and mine a bit closer you maybe would have gotten the point that it was his simply wrong point that ALL PUGs/Lone Wolves/Whatever you name it were only dropping by shortly and thus shouldn't be catered to that I identified as trolling/flaming.

It simply is wrong on so many levels:

First off it is a generalization, thus it takes only one example to prove the point wrong. If you don't like it to be me take Vassago Rain as an example, who in fact is a founder and someone that admits to be mostly PUGging and Solo Q'ing and there are numerous others he's just the first to come to mind.

Secondly it is a constant flow in of new players, "drop byers" and casuals that the F2P model is based off. So wether you like it or not. Making new players and casuals happy is in fact VERY crucial to the success of this game.

Thirdly it's not like casuals wouldn't pay money. Again this is what F2P is based upon. Draw in the casuals with the "play for free" argument and then subtly get them to pay money to progress faster and keep up with the "dedicated" players. There is just as much money flowing in from those players than from the "dedicated" ones.

That aside I know I worded it harsh but I was a bit angered. But I still stand by the point that for me it is such superficial argumentation mostly brought in by people that roll with a group that makes those groups unattractive to me. I mean if you say things that to me are just plain stupidtity how do you expect me to be even remotely comfortable with joining you?

Well and in his response he just showed that I obviously hit a nerve because all he could do is stop argumenting all together and resort to insulting me, so he just proved that in his particular case I must have been just spot on right with what I said.

[Relics]

Please fix the MM! At High Elo I had the best matches I have ever had since I started playing this game. Finally pilots that know what they are doing, matches that last 15 minutes, no one dies for 5 minutes. We need this back, and back right away.

[Chrithu]

JAFO, on 20 February 2013 - 05:38 AM, said:

I find it amusing that you created your account in December 2011, well before the founders packs were even issued yet you didn't put up any money like alot of other people did and you claim your a "Dedicated Battletech Player" then Flame someones opinion on here. You don't have much ground to stand on.

If you want to play this game solo and PUG, please do and have fun.

So just because I didn't buy me a nice badge to show up under my forum name I am less dedicated than you?

Dude you just continue to prove that at least in your case I was exactly right and I don't want to be in a group with you.

Let's leave it at that because if we go on you might just drag me down to your niveau of argumentation and get us both warned/banned.

[ferranis]

We have seen what most of you can do if they face a 'team' (and that without voicecom), oh i remember. 4mans announcing themself + the ussual douchbaggery at the start from them only to get rolled by a bunch of pugs. Yesterday was a good day.

[Fergrim]

I understand you're saying that casual players are an important part of the business model and I agree. However, wouldn't a casual player, by definition, probably not be involved on the forums?

I think they can be catered to in two ways... assist them in finding teams via an in game lobby... and introduce a free for all or 1v1 queue they can join.. you know, for the sociopathic anti social type.

That second way though is obviously irrelevant at this point (and will probably continue to be based on the emphasis on team play and strategy) but we'll leave it there as a theoretical possibility.

And fair enough as far as using your post as a generalization, because I did do that. :]

Specifically, I'm trying to communicate the following... It seems as if there is a large contingent of solo players (not casual, but solo, as these people also post very frequently) that are angry that game play seems to benefit team players. In my opinion, this is asking the nature of the game itself to be changed, in order to cater to a group that is supposed to be at a disadvantage by the very nature of the game.


TL;DR

Solo does not necessarily equal casual, and while casual players should be catered to (primarily by making it easier to find groups, via a chat lobby function, perhaps) solo players should be left swinging in the wind when they join a team game as an individual player.

Team based match? No friends, no communication, no wins.

Edited by Fergrim, 20 February 2013 - 05:58 AM.

[ferranis]

Fergrim, on 20 February 2013 - 05:55 AM, said:

I understand you're saying that casual players are an important part of the business model and I agree. However, wouldn't a casual player, by definition, probably not be involved on the forums?

And fair enough as far as using your post as a generalization, because I did do that. :]

Specifically, I'm trying to communicate the following... It seems as if there is a large contingent of solo players (not casual, but solo, as these people also post very frequently) that are angry that game play seems to benefit team players. In my opinion, this is asking the nature of the game itself to be changed, in order to cater to a group that is supposed to be at a disadvantage.


TL;DR

Solo does not necessarily equal casual, and while casual players should be catered to (primarily by making it easier to find groups, via a chat lobby function, perhaps) solo players should be left swinging in the wind when they join a team game as an individual player.

Team based match? No friends, no communication, no wins.

You misunderstand, we want to pry the advantage out of your hands and it will happen when elo is in place (again). Play as a team, face a team, thats how it should be.
Guess why nearly no game allowes groups to play in the solo queue.

And also: stop giving 'advice' to pugs. Dont do it. You play the game on easy mode (if 4man), pugs the hard way. It should be the other way around.

[Fergrim]

I think you're mistaken when it comes to prying the advantage from our hands. My lance didn't lose a single one of our ELO'd matches yesterday. For some players, we're just happy to finally have a challenge.

You're thinking I'm a typical l2p person, and I'm not, I want to be given a fair shake when I solo queue also.

However, I did notice that the solo queue's were much more forgiving to people who queue'd that way, which is great! Like I said, catering to casual players is a good thing.

And LoL did allow a similar system, where you could enter the game anywhere from alone to a full team, and the teams would be balanced with similar ELO premades on both sides. (maybe a duo and a trio, or a trio and two solo's etc)

This is also fine with me.

You guys who mainly solo queue could..

one, be nicer to me :]
two, stop seeing yourselves as a separate entity..

It's to everyone's advantage to have the ELO system in place. Some of us are sick of rick-rolling folks and really prefer a challenge, not to mention a preference for battling it out with other practiced lances rather than casual folks.

Looking at it from the perspective of who will "have the advantage pried from their hands" is a bit childish and we'd probably at least have a nicer forum environment if you kept your venom in your fangs :]

And I have advice for pugs... focus fire, stick together and get voice coms ;]

Edited by Fergrim, 20 February 2013 - 06:14 AM.

[Chrithu]

Fergrim, on 20 February 2013 - 05:55 AM, said:

I understand you're saying that casual players are an important part of the business model and I agree. However, wouldn't a casual player, by definition, probably not be involved on the forums?

I think they can be catered to in two ways... assist them in finding teams via an in game lobby... and introduce a free for all or 1v1 queue they can join.. you know, for the sociopathic anti social type.

That second way though is obviously irrelevant at this point (and will probably continue to be based on the emphasis on team play and strategy) but we'll leave it there as a theoretical possibility.

And fair enough as far as using your post as a generalization, because I did do that. :]

Specifically, I'm trying to communicate the following... It seems as if there is a large contingent of solo players (not casual, but solo, as these people also post very frequently) that are angry that game play seems to benefit team players. In my opinion, this is asking the nature of the game itself to be changed, in order to cater to a group that is supposed to be at a disadvantage.


TL;DR

Solo does not necessarily equal casual, and while casual players should be catered to (primarily by making it easier to find groups, via a chat lobby function, perhaps) solo players should be left swinging in the wind when they join a team game as an individual player.

Team based match? No friends, no communication, no wins.

You are absolutely right. Those Solo Players wanting the game to cater to them in favor of team players are just as wrong. Maybe that is why it gets me so aggitated when I get mixed up with them, be it intentional or unintentional.

But if people fail to see that getting MM Phase III to work well for all parts of this community benefits us all, then I can't help but think they are either not so smart or simply ignorant.

That's not saying I agree with having the matchmaker stuff worked out before we got a lobby including manual match setup or proper ingame voice chat. But that is the path PGI chose and we won't change it no matter what we say. Thus I'd rather have them at least do the things right if they are doing them in the wrong order from my point of view.

Edit: Note the underlined part in the second sentence. That's the important one. Both groups should have as equal as possible chances. In my view a working MM P III does exactly that. But any Solo Player that is delussional enough to ask for being able to win no matter how well he plays together with his team is exactly the kind of Solo player I do not want to be mixed up with. But in my view those idiots are very rare.

Edited by Jason Parker, 20 February 2013 - 06:16 AM.

[DogmeatX]

If this has not been asked already: does the new system still have it so that one side can end up with a premade (or two) and the other side all randoms?

Because even with tonnage/mech type comparison the real imbalance is the current problem where one team ends up with premades (e.g. two 4 mans) and the other side nothing or not enough same size ones.

So you have:

4man + 4 randoms vs 8 randoms
4 man + 4 man vs randoms
2 + 2 + 4 randoms vs randoms

etc. etc.

You can see where I'm going with this. The guys in the premade ALWAYS have the advantage. They can coordinate their mechs and even their weapons down before the round even begins.

THIS is the real issue. Does the new system do anything about the above situations? If not then it's not really solving a core problem here.

[Fergrim]

Quote

But if people fail to see that getting MM Phase III to work well for all parts of this community benefits us all, then I can't help but think they are either not so smart or simply ignorant.

totally agree with this! And I think it sums things up, whether you're a mainly solo or mainly group oriented player.

Animosity between the two should be belayed, not assumed.

Forgive me for not being more clear in my post; MM3 is exactly what team and solo players of all levels have been needing. As a mainly team oriented player, I found my elo'd games to be far more enjoyable.

And as a solo player, it'd be a great way to measure perceived skill against actual issues.

Quote

But any Solo Player that is delussional enough to ask for being able to win no matter how well he plays together with his team is exactly the kind of Solo player I do not want to be mixed up with. But in my view those idiots are very rare

And this Although that isn't animosity between solo players and team players, it's simply animosity against ignorance... Still not pretty, but far more understandable.


If people like us keep coming to understandings like this, maybe we can wring the goons out of both our camps :]

Edited by Fergrim, 20 February 2013 - 06:39 AM.

[BlackJackRaider]

I had fun with ELO drops yesterday when the MM balanced weight, but there were several with terribly unbalanced teams. For example, we had a match with 4 Assaults and 2 heavies on one team, one heavy and a bunch of mediums on the other. I'm not saying that all drops need to be 2:2:2:2, but some semblance of weight balancing would be nice. I also know that this was not a one time occurrence and that many other people were having similar problems.