204 replies to this topic

[oldradagast]

The only problem, IMHO, with balancing the Awesome through quirks is that it doesn't address the fundamental problem - badly oversized torso with extra-large center torso hitbox - and can establish a trend of badly implemented mechs being balanced through random quirks, which (in turn) may somehow be over or underpowered. Note that any non-chassis specific fixes to help the Awesome will help the Stalker at least as much, so that's why the real issues need to be addressed.

Based upon what I've seen, they just need to fix the relative sizes and hitboxes of the Stalker vs. the Awesome. The Stalker is a bit too small (don't really care if this changes), while the Awesome is noticeably too large. Right now, the Awesome looks like a 90 ton or more monster, while the Stalker might be a 75 ton heavy. Something's not right there, and that difference is what is killing the Awesome. In any situation, your survivability in the Stalker is FAR more than it's 5 extra tons would indicate. Sure, the Awesome is more mobile, but that matters little if you're being blown apart by even half-baked shots because you're oversized. Since the Stalker's surviability is about right, the Awesome needs to be tweaked (hitboxes) or even rescaled if needed to get it to work.

I like the look of the Awesome and the concept, but I doubt anything will be done to fix this problem, sadly.

Edited by oldradagast, 29 May 2013 - 08:13 AM.

[Lightfoot]

@ oldradagast,

Agreed. The Awesome was already fixed once. It's actually much tougher now than it was before getting a smaller CT in, I believe, December. There was actually a group of players with the view that the Awesome was just fine as exploding target dummy mech it started out as.

The Stalker and Awesome comparison is good. If the Stalker is that tough with so many more hardpoints, why is the Awesome not tough with it's fewer number of hardpoints? The Stalker is just a bit clumsier, some having limited twist, and no armswing so that accounts for some of it, but they shouldn't be as far apart in toughness as they are.

[BigMekkUrDakka]

so much complains about huge ct of aws, but if u take it to limit, there is no big difference for experienced fps player between hitting aws and stk ct, yeah u catch much more "random" shots w aws but again if u take it to "pro" lvl its hard to hit ct of only most light mechs, if u look at anything more heavy than cicada its still a huge slow moving bullseye from perspective of decent q3 or CS player
and i totally agree about dhs2.0 post long ppc cd and heat issues thats what makes aws underrated not its hitboxes which is quite average tbh

[Kommisar]

Figured I would chime in on one point here as well. I believe that one of the factors that few players take into account, but which the devs do, is that the Awesome chassis have more module slots than the Stalker. My mastered Stalker has 2. My mastered 9M and 8V have 3. The Stalkers all have 1 default slot while the Awesomes have 2 (average).

Right now, I'm not sure that is big offset. But, down the line, with more modules out like Seismic, maybe it becomes huge.

[Matthew Ace]

As other players had said earlier (and I agree), adjustments should start with hitbox revision;
(1) Upper part of side torsos being part of arms
(2) Narrower CT hitbox (hence making LT/RT hitbox slightly wider.

If that does not work out, then proceed to balance with other quirks.

[BigMekkUrDakka]

or add melee combat so i can run up and whack any underweighted mech in da cockpit

[Damocles69]

Its so frustrating to be an Awesome pilot. I'm not asking for much. Just for my favorite much to be an actual competitor to the stalker, and soon the victor. We I fight one one on one I have to be really on my game and they don't even have to try to kill me. The victor hasn't even been released yet and I know it will blow the Awesome out of the water

/sadface

[Lightfoot]

Kommisar, on 29 May 2013 - 09:00 AM, said:

Figured I would chime in on one point here as well. I believe that one of the factors that few players take into account, but which the devs do, is that the Awesome chassis have more module slots than the Stalker. My mastered Stalker has 2. My mastered 9M and 8V have 3. The Stalkers all have 1 default slot while the Awesomes have 2 (average).

Right now, I'm not sure that is big offset. But, down the line, with more modules out like Seismic, maybe it becomes huge.

AWS-8R has only one module slot. Mine has two, but it was my first Awesome. I had learned during closed beta that the AWS-8Q was not supported by MWO's heatsink prognostications.

[Lightfoot]

I can deal with a little fragility from the Awesome, but what ruins it is the DHS 1.4.

In one sentence..... Mechs with Ballistic hardpoints carry a Gun (15-20 damage/ 4 seconds) and almost as many Energy weapons as the Awesome can. You can't compete against that.

So, if DHS 1.4 persists, mechs with no Ballistc hardpoint should get a buff to external DHS, say DHS 1.6. And mechs with only Energy hardpoints should get that buffed again to DHS 1.8. And this is only fair and balanced which DHS 1.4 is not.

[Butane9000]

Awesome's don't need a buff.

Here's why:


I haven't played my Awesome in 2-3 months.

I'm running my 9M with:

3 Large Lasers
1 ERPPC
Standard 300 Engine
Stock Armor
Rest of the weight to heat sinks (Double)

[AntiCitizenJuan]

Butane9000, on 29 May 2013 - 09:10 PM, said:

Awesome's don't need a buff.

Here's why:


I haven't played my Awesome in 2-3 months.

I'm running my 9M with:

3 Large Lasers
1 ERPPC
Standard 300 Engine
Stock Armor
Rest of the weight to heat sinks (Double)

1 Variant of the AWS chassis performs well. Oh but **** the 5 other ones, who needs em.

[Butane9000]

AntiCitizenJuan, on 29 May 2013 - 09:16 PM, said:

1 Variant of the AWS chassis performs well. Oh but **** the 5 other ones, who needs em.

If there is a "weakest" variant it's the 8R. With limited energy hard points in a well known and vulnerable location you have to be careful.

The 8T is balanced and I like it as an assault missile boat. However that isn't something I really play.

The 8V is something I haven't used much but I saw someone I know wreck face in it non stop. So that pretty much solidifies it's usefulness. Not to mention PGI creating the Pretty Baby which is more or less an 8V with it's hard points moved around.

The 8Q is actually great for sniping. Get some double heat sinks and additional lasers and you have yourself good sniper. It's also a pretty decent brawler with good heat efficiency with a 4 LL build.

So yea. It has 1 weak variant. But the options the variants give you aren't terrible.

Edited by Butane9000, 29 May 2013 - 09:45 PM.

[Adridos]

I could post a screenshot of me doing more damage in a Dragon, Butane...

Any mech can get to crazy numbers assuming the right set-up of the match.

[Lightfoot]

non-Battletech: Give all Awesomes a Ballistic Hardpoint. (not in the Head or CT )

Battletech: DHS 2.0 and a hard heat cap.

Both solutions produce the same result for Awesomes. They are placed on an even playing field.

Edited by Lightfoot, 30 May 2013 - 10:21 AM.

[Butane9000]

Niko Snow, on 30 May 2013 - 10:14 AM, said:

Note to self: Tell Awesome to join the Jenny Steiner weight-loss program.

Good joke, but you're not helping.

[Scrawny Cowboy]

Love my 8Q "Big Bucket" and 9M "Barn Side", but I would be lying to myself if I said there is nothing wrong with the Awesome.

I don't even need to detail why the Stalker is better. Once that mech was patched in, the Awesome became a clear burden. Only diehard fans and unfortunate newbies pick up an Awesome.

I most sincerely doubt the Dev's will go back and alter the size of the Awesome or any mech. Everytime it was brought up in AtD's, they answered with a quick "No."

[AntiCitizenJuan]

Butane9000, on 29 May 2013 - 09:44 PM, said:

If there is a "weakest" variant it's the 8R. With limited energy hard points in a well known and vulnerable location you have to be careful.

The 8T is balanced and I like it as an assault missile boat. However that isn't something I really play.

The 8V is something I haven't used much but I saw someone I know wreck face in it non stop. So that pretty much solidifies it's usefulness. Not to mention PGI creating the Pretty Baby which is more or less an 8V with it's hard points moved around.

The 8Q is actually great for sniping. Get some double heat sinks and additional lasers and you have yourself good sniper. It's also a pretty decent brawler with good heat efficiency with a 4 LL build.

So yea. It has 1 weak variant. But the options the variants give you aren't terrible.

When SRMs are good, the 8R Honey Badger is a real killer. 4SRM6s, 1 LL, 2 ML (variations) destroys enemy assaults up close

Niko Snow, on 30 May 2013 - 10:14 AM, said:

Note to self: Tell Awesome to join the Jenny Steiner weight-loss program.

Maybe you can convince PGI to get it on the program and slim it up a little bit.

Edited by AntiCitizenJuan, 31 May 2013 - 10:07 AM.

[oldradagast]

Just to add a bit more to this:

If they don't want to change the model for the Awesome to shrink it down (maybe this a lot more work than it seems - I've only designed engineering parts in CAD, no video game models), than at least adjust the hit boxes as others have suggested to make the torso regions less easy to hit by enlarging the arm hit boxes. This would help on some level, IMHO, and should be relatively easy to do. The Awesome should be about as survivable as a Stalker - the fact that the Stalker has a huge edge on it in all aspects (except torso twist) currently points to a serious problem.

Adding a few more module slots would work, too, and still be within the rules of the game. I'm against extreme quirks like "extra heat dissipation" because, as I said before, they don't address the fundamental flaws with the mech design and lead to another potential problem - balancing large quirks so they aren't over or underpowered.

Edited by oldradagast, 01 June 2013 - 06:16 AM.

[NRP]

Niko Snow, on 30 May 2013 - 10:14 AM, said:

Note to self: Tell Awesome to join the Jenny Steiner weight-loss program.

Could you at least tell us if the Awesome's issues are being considered/discussed internally?

Really, AWS fans don't want it to be uber, we just want it to be able to hold its own on those many occasions where the stars aren't perfectly aligned.

[Deathlike]

I honestly wonder if it can be made Centurion like. It would use the same type hitbox and debris/damage transfer mechanics. That would finally make it useful for something other than a punching bag.