1094 replies to this topic

[smokefield]

@adamts01

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That might kill it for you and the e-sport crowd, but it would make it better for me, and most of the other old school Mechwarior fans.

right..so your needs are more important than the needs of others...f*** them ...pgi give the man what he asks !!!




read this http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__5008407

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Better yet, just take 6 laser pointers and run or jump around and see how well you can make them all converge on one spot.

if all 6 are fixed on the same platform and stabilized with motors/dumpers, motion sensors, rotation sensors and so on...then yeah you can point it at something and hit with all of them there. and because ppl like so much the realty argument..lasers have no travel time ..so they insta hit. now - taking into consideration that we dont have a trigger delay because it will not be a mechanical one..so the delay will be insignificant...you can actually hit the aimed target in the ms you pulled the trigger. And now in game lasers are spreading damage over the target cause all of them are not insta hit with all their possible damage. I would say it is working pretty decent.

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Convergence is not a skill

yes but i can have all weapons in the torso made to converge in the same point...chose by me before dropping into the game..and the arms ones in another point (or the same one if i want). if anything - we should get the possibility to set our own convergence..not making it randomized, or worse...at max range of the weapons.

[Dagorlad13]

SQW, on 08 February 2016 - 06:18 PM, said:

I'm one of those with great aim and I want COF so the LESS skilled puppy warriors can't just cram 10 lasers in a mech and go alpha-kill-or-heat-shutdown on everyone else.

Your aiming 'skillz' is simply relying on the game giving you pinpoint accuracy boost. In FPS perspective, you've effectively been using a machine gun with sniper rifle accuracy. Please realize your supposedly aiming skill comes with a MASSIVE crutch - you just can't see you are riding around with training wheels.

If you can land every shot on target with cof/variation, that's REAL skill. If you can land every shot with hit scan weapon...not something you should brag about. That's why headshot in CS is considered a skill and nailing someone from across the map with a pistol in Duke Nukem is just arcade fun.

Rarely can any player currently in the game land every direct fire shot, unless their target is completely stationary or they are hacking. COF is not needed in this game and will only make it worse. COF for direct fire weapons will just make even more people boat missiles. The only things that should be random in this game are spawn locations and weather / time of day.

[1Grimbane]

Mystere, on 08 February 2016 - 09:56 PM, said:

Those are some damned fine lightweight mirrors you are using to aim the extreme ultraviolet, x-ray, and gamma radiation produced by megawatt-level free-electron and gamma-ray lasers. I think you should talk to Raytheon and the US Navy for a job.

yeah if you look at the pics of the second solid state laser the navy is building it is room sized... like half a gymnasium big

[Wolfways]

IronClaws, on 08 February 2016 - 10:18 PM, said:

The only things that should be random in this game are spawn locations and weather / time of day.

Because learning military tactics has never included anticipating random events...

If there were no randomness to the game there would have to be no human players. Humans do random things.

Edited by Wolfways, 08 February 2016 - 10:37 PM.

[jay35]

Cone of fire? No. Bad idea.

As someone else said: "If I wanted a cone of fire mechanic I'd play a tank game. It's not skillful and impossibly frustrating when you have a 90% chance to hit and it still misses."

And another notes: "Anything CoR related invokes the power of RNGesus. Which gets a big, fat, loud, and angry NO from me."

And also: "Its still a bad idea the 100th time someone posts about it, even if they have some pictures to go with it. It even gets worse with aim penalties on heat. Its like people just want to stand behind a rock at 0 heat all game. Personally I like getting in there shooting mechs, which inevitability generates a lot of heat."

And finally: "The thing about cone of fire is that it's basically a system to punish players. Obviously it makes sense for weapons to be less accurate while the mech is moving or very hot, but do we really want to punish players for moving? Play World of Tanks (which uses a CoF system) for a while and you'll notice that players are strongly discouraged from attacking. Why risk shots missing when you can just sit and wait for the enemy to come into your minimized CoF?
Granted, World of Tanks has a much greater CoF than the one proposed in the thread, and sensor detection in WoT plays a role in discouraging attacks. However, with the added heat punishment, a CoF system in MWO would basically kill brawling and encourage static, defensive play - where poking with high pinpoint alphas then cooling off becomes even stronger relative to other styles of play.
Not to mention that it punishes new players way more than anyone else with the proposed CoF reductions by skill tree, module, targeting computers, etc. that they won't have access to - and isn't the learning curve steep enough? We don't need to add more gameplay mechanics.
And lastly, it's just frustrating to have shots miss because of RNG. Hit registry on lights is a pain already. A CoF will just make it worse."

Edited by jay35, 08 February 2016 - 10:42 PM.

[MavRCK]

No skill is stupid.

Direct scan weapons such as lasers and no-look lrms have already dumbed-down this great.

Learn to play.

[iLLcapitan]

How I am supposed to shoot an enemy UAV down reliably with such a CoF? Now imagine you got this cone thing and get shot by LRMs at the same time - fun times.

If PPCs are effected by this as well, please be so consequent to remove them from the game entirely. The PPC bolt hugs every rigde, edge, invisible wall it can - would get even worse with a CoF.

[Kuritaclan]

Mystere, on 08 February 2016 - 09:56 PM, said:

Those are some damned fine lightweight mirrors you are using to aim the extreme ultraviolet, x-ray, and gamma radiation produced by megawatt-level free-electron and gamma-ray lasers. I think you should talk to Raytheon and the US Navy for a job.

Where is your ******* problem.

82mm @ 1 click sounds good to me. Not to say that the actual beam is even more directed to actually melt and ignite the test objects on that "projectile".

1Grimbane, on 08 February 2016 - 10:18 PM, said:

yeah if you look at the pics of the second solid state laser the navy is building it is room sized... like half a gymnasium big

Well "your" navy is not in everything the best measure. Nevermind drill JTFEX 01-2 in 2001 and the submarine U 24 which made a "picture" of the "USS Enterprise".

http://www.spektrum....chbruch/1350468

Hint: Optical wire / Piezo Actuators and so on.

Edited by Kuritaclan, 08 February 2016 - 11:10 PM.

[iLLcapitan]

btt?

[Kuritaclan]

iLLcapitan, on 08 February 2016 - 11:20 PM, said:

btt?

For sure. Mystere just is not up to date. Also he rather refered to some ot points instead of some more concerning out of my post #355 what was fully related to the convergence topic regarding the Torso. But even if. I do not know if people are not overwhelmed with two crosshairs right now as it is. What somehow does allready taken care of that issue.

[Ratpoison]

Kuritaclan, on 08 February 2016 - 11:28 PM, said:

For sure. Mystere just is not up to date. Also he rather refered to some ot points instead of some more concerning out of my post #355 what was fully related to the convergence topic regarding the Torso. But even if. I do not know if people are not overwhelmed with two crosshairs right now as it is. What somehow does allready taken care of that issue.

Armlock was added specifically because the two crosshair system was confusing new players, as 3PV was to curb confusion regarding the separation of legs and torso. The proposed idea in the OP would no doubt be more confusing than even those.

[Dagorlad13]

Wolfways, on 08 February 2016 - 10:36 PM, said:

Because learning military tactics has never included anticipating random events...

If there were no randomness to the game there would have to be no human players. Humans do random things.

Technically humans are not "in" the game, so the game does not control human randomness.

Kuritaclan, on 08 February 2016 - 10:58 PM, said:

Where is your ******* problem.

82mm @ 1 click sounds good to me. Not to say that the actual beam is even more directed to actually melt and ignite the test objects on that "projectile".


Well "your" navy is not in everything the best measure. Nevermind drill JTFEX 01-2 in 2001 and the submarine U 24 which made a "picture" of the "USS Enterprise".

http://www.spektrum....chbruch/1350468

Hint: Optical wire / Piezo Actuators and so on.

Modern Lasers are cool, but MWO is set in 3053(ish) and therefore far more advanced (theoretically).

[TexAce]

adamts01, on 08 February 2016 - 05:14 PM, said:

If you can't tell by now, I'm a huge fan of COF, I'm pretty much your spokesperson on this thread, but you never replied to what I said earlier. You really have to limit what a targeting computer can do, most IS can't mount them, it really would make Clans OP. Also, a perfectly cool mech, standing still, firing a single ERLL should hit exactly what he's shooting at.

Don't worry, I've read everything you wrote and I thank you very much for defending my proposal. And yes I do think a standing mech should hit with its weapons (not necessary only one, but even more if it doesn't trigger ghost heat) where it shoots. I just think it does not have to be complete pinpoint all the way through to 1000km.
It should have at least some equipment and skills unlocked for it. I'm more a fan of a tiny spread from 400meters on (like CT-ST) , because I think it would put this game a bit more towards battletech plastyle. However if you have all the equipment and skills, you should be able to pinpoint all the way through unless you are alphaing or riding the heat bar at 90-100% (or triggering ghost heat somehow). Since most battles are at 300-600m range I don't see this as a problem. Brawlers will still be able to penetrate a desired location and snipers will have some equipment anyway. It's also not needed to have ALL the equipment, since my examples prove that even with just some equipment the CoF is so small that you can aim at a particular location.

Also my alternative version is corrected towards TC and CC. Clans would not be OP. That was just a slip up by me. It's TC or CC.

Edited by TexAce, 09 February 2016 - 12:37 AM.

[Brandarr Gunnarson]

I just find it amazing that there IS a middle option and no one even seems to acknowledge it.

Multi-point reticle, as below:

[o x X x o]

The "o"s are the arm reticles, the small "x"s are the ST reticles and the big "X" is the CT and missile (lock) reticle.

No need for CoF, no need for convergence, no worry about HSR, breaks up then super-alpha and maintains pinpoint accuracy.

Moreover, it's simple.

This is not the first time I have suggested it. Why is this compromise being ignored!?

This is not an "either/or" problem with the only options being convergence or CoF. There IS another viable option!

[iLLcapitan]

iLLcapitan, on 08 February 2016 - 10:58 PM, said:

How I am supposed to shoot an enemy UAV down reliably with such a CoF? Now imagine you got this cone thing and get shot by LRMs at the same time - fun times.

If PPCs are effected by this as well, please be so consequent to remove them from the game entirely. The PPC bolt hugs every rigde, edge, invisible wall it can - would get even worse with a CoF.

[Ratpoison]

Brandarr Gunnarson, on 09 February 2016 - 12:38 AM, said:

I just find it amazing that there IS a middle option and no one even seems to acknowledge it.

Multi-point reticle, as below:

[o x X x o]

The "o"s are the arm reticles, the small "x"s are the ST reticles and the big "X" is the CT and missile (lock) reticle.

No need for CoF, no need for convergence, no worry about HSR, breaks up then super-alpha and maintains pinpoint accuracy.

Moreover, it's simple.

This is not the first time I have suggested it. Why is this compromise being ignored!?

This is not an "either/or" problem with the only options being convergence or CoF. There IS another viable option!

The game engine wouldn't allow it(5 convergence points per mech is hell on the netcode), like most CoF ideas posted. If you has to ask "why hasn't this simple fix been done?", you're likely just wrong about it being simple.

Edited by tortuousGoddess, 09 February 2016 - 12:42 AM.

[Brandarr Gunnarson]

tortuousGoddess, on 09 February 2016 - 12:41 AM, said:

The game engine wouldn't allow it(5 convergence points per mech is hell on the netcode), like most CoF ideas posted. If you has to ask "why hasn't this simple fix been done?", you're likely just wrong about it being simple.

I can't imagine that this would be harder on the netcode than CoF or convergence. It's only 2.5x the number of reptile points we already have (we already have 2; arms and torso).

Seems the engine already has this capability. I just think it's been largely unexplored, for what reason, I can't say.

BTW, this is not a CoF idea, at all. The reticle points would be set and pinpoint, just as they are now.

Edited by Brandarr Gunnarson, 09 February 2016 - 01:25 AM.

[Kmieciu]

tortuousGoddess, on 09 February 2016 - 12:41 AM, said:

The game engine wouldn't allow it(5 convergence points per mech is hell on the netcode), like most CoF ideas posted. If you has to ask "why hasn't this simple fix been done?", you're likely just wrong about it being simple.

Have you ever tried shooting your lasers while using jumpjets or masc?
Newsflash!
The COF mechanic is already in the game!

[SQW]

You think those who can't shoot straight with zero convergence will have a easier time with COF? The anti-cof crowd is deluding themselves thinking cof is some mechanic to make noob lives easier. No, cof is to prevent actual noobs from gaming the zero-convergence by piloting crazy laser boats.

Tell you guys what, if you anti-cof crowd can agree to limit ourselves to play only in chain fire mode, I'll take back what I've said about cof and stick with what we have now. No? I thought your leet skillz allow you to shoot anywhere you aim. Not able to instantly put 50+ dmg on a single spot is ruining your K/D ratio?

I'm running a few laser boats myself atm because it is the EASIEST way to make kills. And I hate it! Being able to 2-3 shot a mech makes thing piss easy! Let me repeat it. Laser boats + no cof is EEEEASY.

Edited by SQW, 09 February 2016 - 01:05 AM.

[Ratpoison]

Kmieciu, on 09 February 2016 - 01:01 AM, said:

Have you ever tried shooting your lasers while using jumpjets or masc?
Newsflash!
The COF mechanic is already in the game!

Excellent, in that case can we delete all CoF topics forever since it's already in? I would certainly call that a win-win.

Brandarr Gunnarson, on 09 February 2016 - 12:53 AM, said:

I can't imagine that this would be harder on the netcode than CoF or convergence. It's only 2.5x the number of reptile points we already have (we already have 2; arms and torso).

Seems the engine already has this capability. I just think it's been largely unexplored, for what reason, I can't say.

BTW, this is not a CoF idea, at all. The reptile points would be set and pinpoint, just as they are now.

PGI has stated multiple times that they can't push more convergence points for engine limitation reasons. The netcode has to keep track of everyone's convergence points, so 48 convergence points now becomes 120 convergence points per game. That's an enormous leap, that would result in extreme lag if it didn't just drop players completely. Most CoF suggestions trigger this same problem, as they often expect half a dozen lasers or more to split apart with independent, randomized points of impact. This is part of why CoF is practically unworkable for this game, as you'd probably still have to have perfect convergence within your CoF like how the JJ accuracy debuff works, which isn't exactly sensical.

But I suppose that's partly why these topics are dropped quickly after they are brought up. Most are too full of their own ideas to realize they can't be done.