207 replies to this topic

[SlXSlXSlX]

This is a clear summary, that I posted in another thread. I felt it might get buried amongst teh many posts there in, so I decided to turn it into a thread of it's own.

So you are wondering why a week ago you were winning alot, and you and your 3 friends were having so much more fun than you are today?????

Let me break it down for you.

___________________________________________________________________________
You were winning not because of your skill, but rather because the old enviroment allowed you to win by stacking for moderately skilled players, versus completely new players/terrible players.

As such your stats rose.

Now the match maker thinks your good because your stats say so.

This is afallacy. You are not good, nor were you ever. You were jsut ganging up on floundering infants to the world of min/max builds, and focus fire.

Now your getting paired versus lone wolves, that have been going toe to toe with you, as they get paired with the terrible players, for weeks/months. That level of competition has made them good, but they still lost because they had saddle bags (new players) not in 4 mans.

Now the saddle bags are off, and the match maker thinks they are bad because their stats reflect it. So what you get is, good players with bad stats + great players with great stats... versus you, a 4 man that never got any better, due to your soft competition.

As such, you will lose, alot. And, you deserve to. You elevated yourselves beyond your station, and until match maker realizes that you are not that good, ie, until your stats take a considerable hit, and look much worse, it will continue.

You, unable to accept this reality have turned to the forums, to share your tears.

Fortunately, I am here and happy, to break it all down for you.

Enjoy your well deserved losses, you have alot of catching up to do..

Good news: this will be painful, but you will finally begin to get better. It will all even out, your new stats, as you grow and improve. If you cannot improve, than you are forever destined to be BAD @ MECHS.

More good news: You've made my night. Sweet dreams. Enjoy your day of losses tomorrow, if you do not outright uninstall, becuse your pride (inflated) cannot bear the reality, that you are not that good.

_________________________________________________________________________

Now this may seem harsh, but it had to be said. Think if this as your intervention (cue bells) for your misguided opinions on teh meta today.

I'm sorry. The truth can hurt. But its better you hear it from me, than rage quit and go play Hawken. I want to save you. You can reflect on this, as you pick up your boot straps, and adapt/learn/evolve. I believe in you.

Cheers

TL DR? If you like the image below, go back to the top and read the entire post.

Edited by SlXSlXSlX, 23 February 2013 - 01:59 AM.

[Seleucus Ontuas]

I did some four man drops for three hours with other Templars. Played like 40 games and lost twice. We sure did cry a lot when we lost.

EDIT: Spell was bad... I shouldn't post at 5 am.

Edited by Seleucus Ontuas, 23 February 2013 - 02:16 AM.

[SlXSlXSlX]

How dare you actually back up your stats with skill..

Your the exact audience I am trying to communicate with...

(Saracsm)

You gents tht won then, and win now, have earned the right to win, becuase your that good.

I would ask you though.. if your so pro, why not take that skill to the 8 man queue where you can find a better challenge. Wasn't 38-2 a little repetitive/boring?

I personally, like a challenge.

[Arcadian Xero]

SlXSlXSlX, on 23 February 2013 - 02:01 AM, said:

How dare you actually back up your stats with skill..

Your the exact audience I am trying to communicate with...

(Saracsm)

You gents tht won then, and win now, have earned the right to win, becuase your that good.

I would ask you though.. if your so pro, why not take that skill to the 8 man queue where you can find a better challenge. Wasn't 38-2 a little repetitive/boring?

I personally, like a challenge.

8 mans are boring... for the same reason that the top Elo rating bracket is boring. Nothing but cheesey FoTM builds that abuse a broken unbalanced system.

Right now I absolutely hate playing, and it isn't because I am bad. And it's not because I played a lot of 4 mans (infact all you see in the upper bracket is 4 mans).

It's because I enjoy playing a lot of different mechs and considering there are only a handful that are competitive, that I only use a handful of times, I wind up having a real rough time most games. Especially with the unbalanced weight matching.

In fact every game I lost today was due to a 200-300 ton weight difference... I mean you take excellent players, who are supposed to be there, drop them on a team with that kind of weight advantage and put them up against equally skilled excellent players, that weight difference matters.

I guess my real gripe is that there are a lot of issues with the game right now that are compounded because of other issues. Right now there is a major focus on CQC with SOME long range meta attached to it. Combine that with the small maps which focus you into those brawls, then combine that with mechs that EASILY exploit the best CQC weapons (DDC, K2, A1, 3D, Muromets) then combine that with the ECM/SSRM stacking, then combine that with the weight imbalance and you wind up with some really REALLY awful games.

What happened here is that ELO just brings it all to the surface. Before when you would drop it was a random grouping of people thrown together and balanced weights and SOMETIMES you wind up on realy one sided fights... Now it's take the best players in the game, put them against each other with no weight matching... this is FORCING the top tier players to use these over used mechs that abuse the current system, and it is showing all the problems the game has EVERY SINGLE MATCH, and it drains the fun out of the game... at least for me.

Edited by Arcadian Xero, 23 February 2013 - 02:15 AM.

[Seleucus Ontuas]

SlXSlXSlX, on 23 February 2013 - 02:01 AM, said:

How dare you actually back up your stats with skill..

Your the exact audience I am trying to communicate with...

(Saracsm)

You gents tht won then, and win now, have earned the right to win, becuase your that good.

I would ask you though.. if your so pro, why not take that skill to the 8 man queue where you can find a better challenge. Wasn't 38-2 a little repetitive/boring?

I personally, like a challenge.

Pick-up 8 mans can be rough, the more people in the group you're not used to playing with, the longer it takes to start winning 8 mans. I have a group I play 8 mans on a normal basis, and we average an 80% win rate. We played last night, and we did see a change with ELO implemented, a lot less 8-0 stomps, a lot more 8-4 wins.

EDIT: I just read what the guy above me wrote, and I completely disagree about 8 mans being all cheese. We have a team composition that consists mainly of Medium mechs, and don't use more than 2 ECM mechs. We consistently go against heavy D-DC and 3L teams, along with the occassion all AC/20 Cat or all SRM Cat teams. Personally, ECM heavy teams are made up of players who lack imagination and actually think ECM is actually an advantage in 8 mans. ECM helps against LRMs and that's it. I'm worried about 6 3Ls 6 D-DCs team compositions when 12 mans come out, but even now, it's been months since I last saw a 4 3L 4 D-DC team comp in 8 mans. The ELO top of pug matches is made up of 3Ls and D-DCs because you can only rely on yourself; but when relying on a team of skilled pilots, you don't need 3Ls and D-DCs to win, nor are they necessarily the most optimum mechs to be using.

Edited by Seleucus Ontuas, 23 February 2013 - 02:25 AM.

[SlXSlXSlX]

Ontuas: Ya well if your not used to playing with them, you shouldnt expect to always win.

Xero: At the top tier I am not surprised its all teh apex builds, its the same in world of tanks, once your over 1600 proficiency, its mostly great players running the best builds of the month, and you have to compete with them. You want to roll a silly build, when match maker sees you as pro, man your asking for it. Another way would be a 2nd accnt for kicks. Fresh elo rank. I think what your missing here is it wasnt you a good player in a silly build vs pros in DDCs taht was the problem a week ago, it was johnny McNew player, facing 4 mans of DDCs in his tender first matches in a new game. But, if you cant handle that high elo pressure I wouldnt worry too much, once youve lost enough , MM will move you to the skill level you belong at.

[w0rm]

SlXSlXSlX, on 23 February 2013 - 01:51 AM, said:

You were winning not because of your skill, but rather because the old enviroment allowed you to win by stacking for moderately skilled players, versus completely new players/terrible players.

We still win 80-90% matches when we drop in a premade. Can't see a real change here besides that tonnage becomes the tipping factor if its to far off (on both sides).

[Training Instructor]

That's why I'm in matches where I'm doing three times as much damage as each guy in the bottom four of my team.

Yep, i never had any skill, I just pugstomped.....

Oh wait, about 40% of my total matches in MWO have been solo drops. Stupid me for having decent W/L record.

I'm not running cheese mechs either. I've been running a Flame and a brand new Trebuchet this weekend.

Edited by Training Instructor, 23 February 2013 - 02:28 AM.

[Arcadian Xero]

Seleucus Ontuas, on 23 February 2013 - 02:19 AM, said:

Pick-up 8 mans can be rough, the more people in the group you're not used to playing with, the longer it takes to start winning 8 mans. I have a group I play 8 mans on a normal basis, and we average an 80% win rate. We played last night, and we did see a change with ELO implemented, a lot less 8-0 stomps, a lot more 8-4 wins.

EDIT: I just read what the guy above me wrote, and I completely disagree about 8 mans being all cheese. We have a team composition that consists mainly of Medium mechs, and don't use more than 2 ECM mechs. We consistently go against heavy D-DC and 3L teams, along with the occassion all AC/20 Cat or all SRM Cat teams. Personally, ECM heavy teams are made up of players who lack imagination and actually think ECM is actually an advantage in 8 mans. ECM helps against LRMs and that's it. I'm worried about 6 3Ls 6 D-DCs team compositions when 12 mans come out, but even now, it's been months since I last saw a 4 3L 4 D-DC team comp in 8 mans. The ELO top of pug matches is made up of 3Ls and D-DCs because you can only rely on yourself; but when relying on a team of skilled pilots, you don't need 3Ls and D-DCs to win, nor are they necessarily the most optimum mechs to be using.

I get what you're saying about 8 mans. And it's great that you guys don't use cheese builds, and I completely agree that the teams that run nothing but those cheese builds are mostly bad players... but it doesn't change the fact that it is the most common thing you come across in 8 mans. And you even admitted that you consistently come across DDC and 3L heavy teams... so how can you say you disagree that those teams are what you fight in 8 mans? You basically agreed with me.

[Arcadian Xero]

SlXSlXSlX, on 23 February 2013 - 02:27 AM, said:

Ontuas: Ya well if your not used to playing with them, you shouldnt expect to always win.

Xero: At the top tier I am not surprised its all teh apex builds, its the same in world of tanks, once your over 1600 proficiency, its mostly great players running the best builds of the month, and you have to compete with them. You want to roll a silly build, when match maker sees you as pro, man your asking for it. Another way would be a 2nd accnt for kicks. Fresh elo rank. I think what your missing here is it wasnt you a good player in a silly build vs pros in DDCs taht was the problem a week ago, it was johnny McNew player, facing 4 mans of DDCs in his tender first matches in a new game. But, if you cant handle that high elo pressure I wouldnt worry too much, once youve lost enough , MM will move you to the skill level you belong at.

You can drop the condescending attitude. It isn't necessary. And you missed my point. When I decide to use the competitive builds, I top score boards on a regular basis, and usually by a wide margin. But I get tired of piloting the same mechs over and over. It isn't fun. I like variety. And while I can still do very well in my TBT-7M, or my founder hunch, it's just disheartening to CONSTANTLY see the same mechs and builds.

I guess it's foolish of me to think that PGI could design a game where every mech and weapon is viable... just wishful thinking.

[SlXSlXSlX]

Worm: see post #3, it may apply to you.

Training, the theory MM has is your so good based on stats, that you and he, mr terrible balance out. I am sorry your not living up to your end of the bargain. 40% solo? So you team up more than half the time? No wonder your stats are artifically inflated. Its not stupid you for winning alot, its stupid you for winning alot more with your 4 man than you can alone. Sounds like someone has been carrying you, so Id thank yor skillful friend. Except that, his help then, is your humble pie now.

Like I said training, MM will eventually drop you to your apropriate skill rank, and then you will have a much more 50/50 experience.

[w0rm]

SlXSlXSlX, on 23 February 2013 - 02:33 AM, said:

Worm: see post #3, it may apply to you.

As I said in similar topics before: We do drop in the 8 man queue if we have the numbers.

[SlXSlXSlX]

Arcadian Xero, on 23 February 2013 - 02:32 AM, said:

You can drop the condescending attitude. It isn't necessary. And you missed my point. When I decide to use the competitive builds, I top score boards on a regular basis, and usually by a wide margin. But I get tired of piloting the same mechs over and over. It isn't fun. I like variety. And while I can still do very well in my TBT-7M, or my founder hunch, it's just disheartening to CONSTANTLY see the same mechs and builds.

I guess it's foolish of me to think that PGI could design a game where every mech and weapon is viable... just wishful thinking.

WoT reference again, its something i am familiar with. SOme tier 10s are great (t110) and some are terrbile in pub matches (maus). You want to get creative and run the less than optimal platform fine, jsut dont expect the same win result when you do it, as I said. You want a silly build, and yet somewhat fun experience you can A. make an alt for silly fun and try not to let your ELO get to high, I suggest AFKing a few dozen matches while posting on the forums. Or, accept that your not going to win in a sea of T110s, in your Maus.

I know you understand this, so stop being such a poor sport about it.

Edited by SlXSlXSlX, 23 February 2013 - 02:39 AM.

[anonymous175]

Liked the image, skipped the post. Time for sleep.

[SlXSlXSlX]

w0rm, on 23 February 2013 - 02:36 AM, said:

As I said in similar topics before: We do drop in the 8 man queue if we have the numbers.

Then put in more effort recruiting, or, branch out to other TS's to link w other partial 8 mans. For those that are truely good, this should be their primary interest. Isnt the go make friends argument one that is thrown at the new players all the time?

Go make more friends.

[Arcadian Xero]

SlXSlXSlX, on 23 February 2013 - 02:37 AM, said:

WoT reference again, its something i am familiar with. SOme tier 10s are great (t110) and some are terrbile in pub matches (maus). You want to get creative and run the less than optimal platform fine, jsut dont expect the same win result when you do it, as I said. You want a silly build, and yet somewhat fun experience you can A. make an alt for silly fun and try not to let your ELO get to high, I suggest AFKing a few dozen matches while posting on the forums. Or, accept that your not going to win in a sea of T110s, in your Maus.

I know you understand this, so stop being such a poor sport about it.

I honestly thought about intentionally killing my own rating so that I could have a bit more fun, but I know that it would cause problems when I do run in groups since I would bring their ratings down, and then we would be in a four man in the lower bracket and that wouldn't be fair either.

I guess an alt account would be best... but... but... dat grind...

[SlXSlXSlX]

If it is worth it to you, having fun, you will. If the stats are your priority, you will not. That grind, is a pittance, a drop in tehbucket, compared to tanks. You know what happens when you unlock everything, all of a sudden, it gets alot more boring fast.

Remember your second accnt isnt for pro clan wars someday, its for you, when your running alone, and get tired of spamming op builds. Stop looking at the glass as half empty. If you love this game, its not a grind. Enjoy the journey more than once.

AND, if your elo drops, and u and your mates face weaker opponents, you will win more, and your elo will go right back up. It fixes itself, then you tank it again, and repeat.

You have options. Do you play this game becuase you love it? Then all of these options should be acceptable to you.

Edited by SlXSlXSlX, 23 February 2013 - 02:45 AM.

[Rathverge]

Was wondering when smurfin would take place in this game.

[Arcadian Xero]

Rathverge, on 23 February 2013 - 02:46 AM, said:

Was wondering when smurfin would take place in this game.

Smurfin?

[Znail]

The OP is such a waste of space as it has nothing to do with why people are actually complaining about the Elo system.