135 replies to this topic

[Mercules]

Oni Ralas, on 25 February 2013 - 08:22 AM, said:

Grow some stones kiddo. If you want to contribute, then do so - but based on a mechanical/gameflow reason, not because it doesn't fit timeline.

The Devs have stated several times they will make changes to the game based on what needs to be changed to translate this from Battletech TT and lore to online game. What they will NOT do is add in something that is so far from the canon lore that this stops being set in that universe.

As for gameflow there is no real reason to add in "healers". Part of the nature of warfare is attrition. A big part of the MW/BT strategy is attrition.

Oni Ralas, on 25 February 2013 - 08:22 AM, said:

Just about every game has a mechanic of repairing or rejuvenation when the combat is longer than 2-6 minutes (which is currently the average). Dropping in "medics" now wouldn't help much, as it's still a free for all brawl session for the most part.

I don't play any FPS's (other than this one I suppose) so I throw out the CoD as a general reference.

I want MechWarrior. I want events, I want scenarios, I want something that makes this feel like less of an arena fight (cough *heavy gear* cough) and more of a beefed up combat sim.

"healing" doesn't add any of that. It doesn't add events, it doesn't add scenarios. If that is what you want you will have to wait for Community Warfare.

The other part of not being arena based combat went away because people couldn't handle it and that was Repair and Reload. A lot of people don't want anything "in between" dropping in a mech and shooting. Your suggestion doesn't add anything outside a normal match and so doesn't offer what you suggested is the reason for it directly above.

Battletech was always more fun when we ran games and campaigns that continued and the need to consider supply lines, raids, repairs, and other things like that outside of just straight up battle was the bigger thing. It is fun blowing up other mechs but it always seemed more fun when I knew using that AC/20 ammo up meant I might not have it for the next battle unless we hit a supply depot.

We all want those other things but adding a poorly thought out and anti-canon "healer" mech/vehicle to the game won't add them.

[General Taskeen]

Uh, BT has mobile field bases, which 'repair/rearm' Mechs.

People that state "its not lore/canon," isn't really true.

Also, Mech Warrior is not a true simulation, it just has the feel/aspects of it, with arcade/fps mixed in.

MW:LL applied the repair/rearm possibility to main (uncapturable spawn) bases or strategic locations on the battlefield on their huge 'terrain control' maps. In terms of a type of a game mode that lasts for several hours (not 15 minutes), simulating a campaign or huge operational battle, respawn/repair/rearm is needed for it (if MWO were to copy it).

IMO, Community Warfare is going to be awfully boring if will only be short 15 minute matches. I've played simulation games that last nearly 2 hours in other games. I hope and dream that longer game modes will be made for MWO. Short matches should be relegated to the separate modes that PGI is currently testing for 'quick match' style gaming and C-Bill farming.

Edited by General Taskeen, 25 February 2013 - 09:02 AM.

[Kousagi]

General Taskeen, on 25 February 2013 - 08:53 AM, said:

Uh, BT has mobile field bases, which 'repair/rearm' Mechs.

People that state "its not lore/canon," isn't really true.

Also, Mech Warrior is not a true simulation, it just has the feel of one, with arcade/fps mixed in. MW:LL applied the repair/rearm possibility to main (uncapturable spawn) bases or strategic locations on the battlefield on their huge 'terrain control' maps. In terms of a type of a game mode that lasts for several hours, respawn/repair/rearm is needed for it.

Its just a mobile repair bay, that does not mean it can magically fix a mech in seconds. Using a MFB would take just as long as using a dropships repair bay... Since you want to quote Sarna.net, then maybe you should look at the game rule quote on that page....

"MFBs have no effect during normal gameplay, however they may be used to repair damaged machines per standard rules."

So, your own source denys your claim...No ones saying that mobile repair units were not canon, but for people to think they would roll up to a mech in combat and have it fully repaired in no time flat is what is not canon.

[Escef]

General Taskeen, on 25 February 2013 - 08:53 AM, said:

Uh, BT has mobile field bases, which 'repair/rearm' Mechs.

People that state "its not lore/canon," isn't really true.

Also, Mech Warrior is not a true simulation, it just has the feel of one, with arcade/fps mixed in. MW:LL applied the repair/rearm possibility to main (uncapturable spawn) bases or strategic locations on the battlefield on their huge 'terrain control' maps. In terms of a type of a game mode that lasts for several hours, respawn/repair/rearm is needed for it.

And if you check the "Notes" section of the entry, it clearly says that they have no effect during normal game play. Which in MWO would translate to during the drop/engagement. Their usage in the MW3 PC game was purely to facilitate longer encounters with more enemies, as the programming limited the player to him/herself and 3 AI controlled NPCs (AI controlled also equates to being all but mindless). It was needed to make the game interesting.

There were also a small number of missions in the MechCommander series where there were repair bays usable in game. Using them during a firefight was not advisable.

Something along these lines might be feasible in the game engine, from a technical standpoint, but I do not think it would be good for the game.

[Steven Dixon]

Adrienne Vorton, on 24 February 2013 - 06:06 PM, said:

Haargel? seriously?

Hey that stuff's great, I had a car accident and covered my car in it and it was good as new overnight. As far as a field repair mech, I don't think its a good fit for this game, but if they did add one I would at least give it a try.

[Kraven Kor]

To the OP:

Stop. Posting.

That is all.

[General Taskeen]

Suit yourself if you don't want longer game modes. I'm not arguing with you people when you have no idea what possibilities it would bring.

Short game modes are for people with short attention spans and instant gratification. Its Call of Duty with Mechs.

I play real simulation games son, so don't talk about your 'canon' realism to me. Mech Warrior is nothing close to true realism. Never will be and never has been. Compromises are made for the sake of new player generation and variety of playstyles in Mech Warrior titles.

Edited by General Taskeen, 25 February 2013 - 09:09 AM.

[Menetius]

Escef, on 25 February 2013 - 09:01 AM, said:

There were also a small number of missions in the MechCommander series where there were repair bays usable in game. Using them during a firefight was not advisable.

Funny, because I used to do that all the time; I'd have the rest of my lance(s) cover the mech being repaired; I got quite good at having my lights herd clanners into a single direction and making a wall for my atlas while he reloads his gauss rifle.

Edited by Menetius, 25 February 2013 - 09:07 AM.

[Mercules]

General Taskeen, on 25 February 2013 - 08:53 AM, said:

Uh, BT has mobile field bases, which 'repair/rearm' Mechs.

People that state "its not lore/canon," isn't really true.

1. That was Mechwarrior 3. Notice they didn't exist in MW4.

2. Instant repairs like that are not canon. Having a "mobile field base" would at best eliminate the penalties for attempting to repair without the proper facilities or enable certain repairs you could only do at factories. It still takes days to weeks for certain repairs.

[Escef]

General Taskeen, on 25 February 2013 - 09:06 AM, said:

Suit yourself if you don't want longer game modes. I'm not arguing with you people when you have no idea what possibilities it would bring.

Short game modes are for people with short attention spans and instant gratification.

I play real simulation games son, so don't talk about your 'canon' realism to me.

I play simulation games, too. I was conquering China on the NES back in the day. You were likely in diapers at the time. I was playing Fortress America and Axis & Allies. I. Make. War. For. Fun. And have done so for decades. But I guess I imagined all that, because I disagree with you and therefor have a sort attention span, want instant gratification, and don't play simulation games.

[Oni Ralas]

Kraven Kor, on 25 February 2013 - 09:05 AM, said:

To the OP:

Thanks for your wonderful insight into the discussion Kraven. Next time, try making your font bigger though, it might help you illustrate your point a bit easier.

Cheers

[xxREVxx]

Escef, on 25 February 2013 - 07:03 AM, said:

Telling people to chill is rather condescending. You are assuming they aren't chill.

Did you read the posts that ridiculed/belittled the OP's idea? That was ok with you? So anyway even if it was meant to be condesending, which it wasn't....it would have been warranted.

NEXT!

[Oni Ralas]

Mercules, on 25 February 2013 - 09:10 AM, said:

That was Mechwarrior 3. Notice they didn't exist in MW4.

Mobile repair most certainly appears in MW4... never played Mercs? Hell, your 2nd campaign has you defend a convoy of heavy artillery between 3 navpoints, on the last navpoint you repair up and then defend the dropship while they load up.

[Mercules]

General Taskeen, on 25 February 2013 - 09:06 AM, said:

Suit yourself if you don't want longer game modes. I'm not arguing with you people when you have no idea what possibilities it would bring.

Repair bays are not the answer. Persistent world and "campaign" battles would fit the style of game. 2 teams drop in those "short" missions. Depending on outcome the next mission starts with one team have a small perk or advantage over the other, something like starting from a base that has better positioning or maybe minor defenses if they managed to protect the objective (a generator or some such) in the previous match. Have players pick mechs they will play during that campaign and mechs can undergo limited repairs between matches.

General Taskeen, on 25 February 2013 - 09:06 AM, said:

I play real simulation games son, so don't talk about your 'canon' realism to me. Mech Warrior is nothing close to true realism. Never will be and never has been. Compromises are made for the sake of new player generation and variety of playstyles in Mech Warrior titles.

Yes, and some of us hate that but live with it so that our less enlightened friends will still play the game. That doesn't mean we want the game to go FURTHER in that direction and introduce "repair" mechs/vehicles.

[Mercules]

Oni Ralas, on 25 February 2013 - 09:12 AM, said:

Mobile repair most certainly appears in MW4... never played Mercs? Hell, your 2nd campaign has you defend a convoy of heavy artillery between 3 navpoints, on the last navpoint you repair up and then defend the dropship while they load up.

That was not a Mobile Field Base, that was a stationary repair bay. My statement is fact. Mobile Field Bases were in MW3 and vanished in MW4. I believe there is a reason for that and the reason was balance issues. When you can turn the mission into a series of small encounters with repairs and reloads between them you can literally design your mech differently and gain a large increase in performance over the AI opponents. It becomes hard to balance the difficulty for those that do this and those that don't.

[Escef]

PoisonWolf, on 25 February 2013 - 09:12 AM, said:

Did you read the posts that ridiculed/belittled the OP's idea? That was ok with you? So anyway even if it was meant to be condesending, which it wasn't....it would have been warranted.

What it was meant to be and what it was are apparently two serperate animals. And if you wish to address a a specific post, address it. That's what the "Quote" button is for. Instead you chose to make a blanket statement targeted at everyone who disagreed with the OP.

Don't use artillery if you don't want to anger the folk caught in the splash damage.

[General Taskeen]

Mercules, on 25 February 2013 - 09:15 AM, said:

Repair bays are not the answer. Persistent world and "campaign" battles would fit the style of game. 2 teams drop in those "short" missions. Depending on outcome the next mission starts with one team have a small perk or advantage over the other, something like starting from a base that has better positioning or maybe minor defenses if they managed to protect the objective (a generator or some such) in the previous match. Have players pick mechs they will play during that campaign and mechs can undergo limited repairs between matches.



Yes, and some of us hate that but live with it so that our less enlightened friends will still play the game. That doesn't mean we want the game to go FURTHER in that direction and introduce "repair" mechs/vehicles.

Ever played MW:LL? It works absolutely, perfectly fine for 2 hour long matches in the context of Mech Warrioring.

[Oni Ralas]

Escef, on 25 February 2013 - 09:10 AM, said:

I play simulation games, too. I was conquering China on the NES back in the day. You were likely in diapers at the time. I was playing Fortress America and Axis & Allies. I. Make. War. For. Fun. And have done so for decades. But I guess I imagined all that, because I disagree with you and therefor have a sort attention span, want instant gratification, and don't play simulation games.

So I'm trying to figure out the age here.... NES reference? So you've go to be at least in you 30's if you have vivid memory of the fiacom. I'm going to guess... 35.

[Kraven Kor]

IF they did "in field repairs" it should be a cutscene type deal between parts of a multi-part map.

IE, if the map has multiple objectives that "open up" the next area of the map, then surviving mechs on the field could be field-repaired (armor and ammo refills only) between the two engagements or whatever. Abstraction or no, repairing a mech takes hours to days, and I want that reflected in some way.

I can see "in field repairs" being added and working within the context of the game, but it will need to be handled carefully.

But I'm one of the "try hards" or whatever who wants Repair and Rearm costs to make a reappearance.

Edited by Kraven Kor, 25 February 2013 - 09:31 AM.

[Drenzul]

No to repair mechs, however

Mobile repair vehicles should be ok.

They did exist in BT and could add an extra element to some game modes.

The restrictions on them were pretty hard:

Only repair armour (They literally took off plates and replaced them)
Had to be shut-down to use (You are target practice if you try and do this near enemies)
They are vulnerable targets.

All in all it would mean you had to pull out of combat and go back to the repair bay, if you had taken internal or critical damage, well that needs to wait till after the match but lets face it replacing some armour isn't too hard at this tech level. Reloading might be possible as well but again it would be game-mode dependent and all of this is pretty irrelevant for the current game modes.

However for some of the possible modes for CW... hmmm