463 replies to this topic

[Kaziganthi]

3rdworld, on 15 March 2013 - 12:18 PM, said:

Just went and check..yeah the 8Q isnt, but thats it's stock configuration. The others are variants on the original designs...so technically they are not stock standard from the factory.

As most insurance companies will tell you, the moment you change any part of your car, it is no longer stock, that can even include the wheels on some of the more unscrupulous companies.

3rdworld, on 15 March 2013 - 12:17 PM, said:

I see a bunch of mechs that boat missiles.

Are SRMs missiles?

The pirahna boats 10 machine guns

edit: and why is the only complaint about boating LRMs or SRMs..what about all the mechs that boat large/medium/ small lasers and PPCs?

Edited by Kaziganthi, 15 March 2013 - 12:27 PM.

[Royalewithcheese]

KuruptU4Fun, on 15 March 2013 - 12:18 PM, said:

Wow, that's a lot of things to address just to minimize boating.

I think there is a big misconception about the capabilities of BAP in the first place. It gathers information ONLY, it does not (Or should not) do anything otherwise, like quicken targeting for LRM's.

AMS is a shield, but a small one. My best example of that is watching a scene in Braveheart where you see a guy try to avoid a rain of arrows using a shield about the side of a plate. If AMS were to be buffed, I think using it more as a gun designed to fire FLAK with a smaller ammo capacity. Currently it seems to shoot missiles directly. FLAK rounds would provide a bigger shield to some degree.

SSRM's were designed to be boated, but currently with no drawbacks. Again, adding collective heat would help solve that IMO.

I don't really think there's a problem with boating haha. I just think that since BAP, LRMs, and SSRMs on non-ECM mechs aren't super viable right now, that system might need to be looked at. I don't particularly think there's anything bad about the A1 being built as an SRM brawler, but the fact that the only viable A1 builds feature some combination of SRM4 and SRM6 I think tells us a lot about the balance of various missile types in this game.

[KuruptU4Fun]

The Dev's have stated that it is being assessed, so hopefully giving it some suggested drawbacks (like interfering with the same SSRM's it can boat), is a consideration they are taking into account...

[3rdworld]

Kaziganthi, on 15 March 2013 - 12:25 PM, said:

Just went and check..yeah the 8Q isnt, but thats it's stock configuration. The others are variants on the original designs...so technically they are not stock standard from the factory.

Most of the variants listed in sarna are factory produced versions. They will normally tell you if it is a common field refit. see HBK-5N

[ZnSeventeen]

Kaziganthi, on 15 March 2013 - 12:17 PM, said:

Theyre variants..not stock mechs.

No, they are stock. Unless it says "field refit" the mech was built that way, on the basic chassis.

Ninja'd

Edited by ZnSeventeen, 15 March 2013 - 12:34 PM.

[FupDup]

Kaziganthi, on 15 March 2013 - 12:25 PM, said:

The pirahna boats 10 machine guns

Actually it's 12.

Kaziganthi, on 15 March 2013 - 12:17 PM, said:

They're variants..not stock mechs.

Bane Prime, Awesome 8-Q, Nova Prime, Longbow 7Q, Pandarus 1X, Naginata C3A, Fafnir 5, Annihilator 2A, Yeoman 6Y, Piranha, Viking 2F, King Crab 000, Supernova, Crossbow Prime, Mandrill, Kodiak, Charger 1A1 (only weapons are 5 Small Lasers, lol), and Hellstar are all stock variants that I can name off the top of my head that boat.

Edited by FupDup, 15 March 2013 - 12:48 PM.

[Anti-Social]

First off there are ways to deal with boats. boats have there disadvantages also, in armor they had to shave off to fit there weapon load, to small slow engines. I have found that a lot of srm boats like to put there ammo in there legs and they also like to shave off armor in there legs a lot of the A1 cats will die with just a few shots to there legs from less armor and ammo explosions. While these are some things you can do i do agree that srm cat dose make a not so good player look good,,, and here falls the ELO what happens when they pick a different mech and the ELO thinks there a good player. ECM is OP'ed for certain class's the light , and medium mechs should not have a ecm that dose aoe bubble because that should require a larger ecm unit and use more slots and tons. Atlas DDC i can see have the ecm the way it is. But then again the developers have not listened to there founders,, you know the ones that paid and invested in this game during closed bata, so why should they now? I work around ECM and just deal with it for months now, but I have seen many of my friends that are founders leave the game over it. one thing i dont understand is how you can go open bata and come out with ECM during open bata this is something that should have been tested during closed bata, if they had tested it then then maybe they would not have lost 50% to 70% of the founder players that invested real money in the game.

[Marduk Moreau]

Kahoumono, on 14 March 2013 - 05:27 PM, said:

Diminishing returns on the weapons will do the trick, you wouldn'[t boat ppcs if your forth one does half the damage. Or spike the heat on alpha'ing stacked weapons.

This is a unwise idea. The Game will eventually have dozens of canon boats. Get used to them cause they are not going away.

[3rdworld]

FupDup, on 15 March 2013 - 12:37 PM, said:

Bane Prime, Awesome 8-Q, Nova Prime, Longbow 7Q, Pandarus 1X, Naginata C3A, Fafnir 5, Annihilator 2A, Yeoman 6Y, Piranha, Viking 2F, King Crab 000, Supernova, Crossbow Prime, Kodiak, Charger 1A1 (only weapons are 5 Small Lasers, lol), and Hellstar are all stock variants that I can name off the top of my head that boat.

The amount of tears we would see if the bane was introduced....

8-LRM15s
4-UAC\10s
10-UAC/2s

[Royalewithcheese]

3rdworld, on 15 March 2013 - 12:48 PM, said:

The amount of tears we would see if the bane was introduced....

8-LRM15s
4-UAC\10s
10-UAC/2s

"What... what are you?"

"I'm River City's reckoning."

Edited by Royalewithcheese, 15 March 2013 - 12:51 PM.

[3rdworld]

Royalewithcheese, on 15 March 2013 - 12:50 PM, said:

"What... what are you?"

"I'm River City's reckoning."

oh god.....

"so you think the darkness is your ally?"

Edited by 3rdworld, 15 March 2013 - 12:55 PM.

[Kingdok]

Vodrin Thales, on 15 March 2013 - 10:28 AM, said:

Yep. AC2's really sucked hard in TT, but with the rate of fire adjustments in MWO a Quad AC2 setup suddenly is desirable. And replace the AC2's with 4 UAC5's and you really have a scary mech (although admittedly one with serious ammo issues).

As has been pointed out ad nasueum in the Jagermech threads, the quad UAC5 build has more than just ammo issues. It has armor issues, speed issues, XL fragility issues, no backup weapon issues, and the ever popular "sorry bro - you stepped between me and that Atlas" team killing issues. It is going to be a glorious dakka boat, requiring a steady trigger hand and balls o' ferrofibrous...

[Royalewithcheese]

3rdworld, on 15 March 2013 - 12:52 PM, said:

oh god.....

"so you believe the dark to be your ally?"

"You merely adopted the Thermal Vision. I was born with it, molded by it!"

[Kaziganthi]

3rdworld, on 15 March 2013 - 12:31 PM, said:

Most of the variants listed in sarna are factory produced versions. They will normally tell you if it is a common field refit. see HBK-5N

Sarna isn't always correct.

Also the factories only produce 1 type of mech, due to the lost technology required to make a new mech. The factories only produced what is tooled. It's like trying to change a Ford F100, but we have no one that can alter the alter the design of the factory machinery to effectivly mass produce the stock. The variants come later on due to pilots not likeing the design and changing it, or lack of replacable parts.

ZnSeventeen, on 15 March 2013 - 12:33 PM, said:

No, they are stock. Unless it says "field refit" the mech was built that way, on the basic chassis.

Ninja'd

Show me where it says field refit on the mech sheets or even in the 3025 Technical Readout.

FupDup, on 15 March 2013 - 12:37 PM, said:

Bane Prime, Awesome 8-Q, Nova Prime, Longbow 7Q, Pandarus 1X, Naginata C3A, Fafnir 5, Annihilator 2A, Yeoman 6Y, Piranha, Viking 2F, King Crab 000, Supernova, Crossbow Prime, Mandrill, Kodiak, Charger 1A1 (only weapons are 5 Small Lasers, lol), and Hellstar are all stock variants that I can name off the top of my head that boat.

How many of those mechs are in our timeline, and are currently in-game.

Edited by Kaziganthi, 15 March 2013 - 12:58 PM.

[FupDup]

Kaziganthi, on 15 March 2013 - 12:56 PM, said:

How many of those mechs are in our timeline, and are currently in-game.

Now we're talking about timeline and in-gameness? Before it was just about stock mechs that were boats.

[Kaziganthi]

FupDup, on 15 March 2013 - 12:58 PM, said:

Now we're talking about timeline and in-gameness? Before it was just about stock mechs that were boats.

No, actually..the original response was to the 4 mechs that were pointed out, the swayback (aka Hunchback) in-game, The jenner, also in-game, the A1, also in-game, and the Awesome, also ingame.

I was using the point of the pirahna against the people constantly complaining about missile boats and ignoring any other type of boats. Also i'd love to have a piranha ingame just for the laughs.

[boomboom517]

HRR Insanity, on 14 March 2013 - 04:38 PM, said:

The problem is not the number of weapons... it's all the weapons hitting the same spot. Pinpoint convergence breaks the damage model.

agreed but its difficult due to the fact we as players dont have the neuro helm the the pilots have in the cannon

[Trauglodyte]

I think that a lot of people in this thread don't understand what boating actually is or why boating in the current game is bad.

Edited by Trauglodyte, 15 March 2013 - 01:07 PM.

[3rdworld]

Kaziganthi, on 15 March 2013 - 12:56 PM, said:

Show me where it says field refit on the mech sheets or even in the 3025 Technical Readout.

Pg 58 TRO 3050.

Boom Shakalaka

[M4rtyr]

KhanCipher, on 14 March 2013 - 04:41 PM, said:

the head of the Longbow, Naginata, Archer, and Catapult familys are sending their... "messangers" to tell you how wrong you are.

or that you didn't seem to play TT...

Wasn't going to say anything in this thread until read this...

Uhh, LRM's are support weapons and those are support mechs. You take LRM boats only in TT and you are going to get crushed.

Missiles do too much damage. a SRM boat is dangerous with TT damages, but they increased missile damages for stupid *** reasons which make LRM's insanely OP'ed on an open map, that led to stupidied ECM. My first time on Alpine I was running my splatapult (yes I got sick of the morons claiming SRM's were fine so decided to give them a taste of their own medicine). I only saw one enemy and only fired once before he was killed. He pop'ed over a ridge point blank right in front of me and I fired. Alpha is 90 damage, I finished the match with 94 damage. Considering maybe 1-2 missiles missed since it was point blank and hit him in the leg i still did MORE then my max damage. Not only do they increase base damage of missiles but then they ADD splash damage on top of that. It's moronic. There is no reason for the first increase in damage and splash damage is just stupid especially as an additive instead of distributing the base damage (still a stupid concept).

Anyway, these are the reasons boats are annoying, because the missiles are stupidly balanced and then as someone else said, pinpoint convergence other weapons is the problem. Missles do too much damage so missile boats are ******* and PPC/ML boats are ******* because all their damage hits one location.

Edited by M4rtyr, 15 March 2013 - 01:26 PM.