1107 replies to this topic

[Mercules]

Shumabot, on 25 March 2013 - 10:09 AM, said:

Yeah, and you're lording over a dying game full of cancers that you refuse to let go of because of nostalgia. Enjoying playing a game with shut down servers because the devs couldn't lose the love of the golds and make a game that wasn't hugely flawed, unbalanced, and unfun. I want to play mechwarrior, not battletech online dicegame p2w fantasyland.

Look, you can't seem to tell me what would be unfun about reigning in the heat issues thus making DHS less needed. Are they still an upgrade? YES. Are they absolutely needed if you can get by without them because heat is not doubled? NO. Yet your argument is they need to go because everyone has to have them while not addressing that altering the heat scale by fixing the weapons would make them an upgrade but not a needed one for as many builds. There are several larger ballistics builds that would not need them if heat was done properly. Would they make the mech "better" possibly, but not by so much that they might be worth the 1.5Mil upgrade.

That is my point, but you want to dance around it and claim I am tied to TT. No, I am trying to make a balanced game that accounts for lore and history of the game including TT from which everything evolved from.

BTW, the huge flawed imbalanced crap in this game is from where they diverted from TT. SSRMS, ECM, Heat, Matchmaking.

[Splinters]

Wouldn't the simple solution be to put SHS and DHS into different launch/ELO queue's? That way those who run SHS have some semblance of a chance? I know the 30+ SHS Atlas will have a field day, but any serious player will upgrade to DHS' and have them available for 8-man and CW in the future. If you got spare cash maybe they do have a back-up atlas w/SHS, but that's a perfectly good money sink as well.

-S

[Joseph Mallan]

Shumabot, on 25 March 2013 - 10:23 AM, said:

Your eyes can't detect sarcasm so visible it blew up the meter and could be seen from space. Those don't sound like good eyes. Those sound like ben stein eyes.

Sarcasm is detected in the voice reading it. Since I cannot hear how you read it, I am stuck judging sarcasm on my tone. You are not very good at this are you?

[Kdogg788]

Shumabot, on 25 March 2013 - 10:23 AM, said:

You have never played this game before. That is the only explanation. You are some sort of insidious pod person pretending to be human and spreading plainly illogical lies in order to sow chaos. That is the only possible way you can say that a dual ac20 jager, which can fire infinitely without overheating, is heat intensive. That's the only way you can say that the D-DC which can fire for like 5 minutes straight without overheating is heat intensive.

Go away pod person, earth isn't work conquering with golds like these ruining it.



Your eyes can't detect sarcasm so visible it blew up the meter and could be seen from space. Those don't sound like good eyes. Those sound like ben stein eyes.

Wow, all I can say is there is no saving you after an epic uncalled for personal attack rant like that. I'm wondering who hasn't played the game before... AC20s DO generate a good amount of heat, and poptart builds are in danger or overheating if they spam their PPCs. An Atlas can not alpha five minutes straight with nearly any build. The only thing illogical here is why you continue to advance your argument, and if you continue to address people like this how can you expect anyone to have faith in your reasoning.

-k

[Shumabot]

Joseph Mallan, on 25 March 2013 - 10:26 AM, said:

Sarcasm is detected in the voice reading it. Since I cannot hear how you read it, I am stuck judging sarcasm on my tone. You are not very good at this are you?

Sarcasm is "a sharp, bitter, or cutting expression or remark; a bitter gibe or taunt",[1] usually conveyed through irony or understatement.[2] Most authorities distinguish sarcasm from irony;[3] however, others argue that sarcasm may or often does involve irony[4] or employs ambivalence.[5]

You never read anyone being sarcastic in a book? Oh wait.

>book

Yeah, that makes sense.

Edited by Shumabot, 25 March 2013 - 10:28 AM.

[Mackman]

Mercules, on 25 March 2013 - 10:25 AM, said:

Look, you can't seem to tell me what would be unfun about reigning in the heat issues thus making DHS less needed. Are they still an upgrade? YES. Are they absolutely needed if you can get by without them because heat is not doubled? NO. Yet your argument is they need to go because everyone has to have them while not addressing that altering the heat scale by fixing the weapons would make them an upgrade but not a needed one for as many builds. There are several larger ballistics builds that would not need them if heat was done properly. Would they make the mech "better" possibly, but not by so much that they might be worth the 1.5Mil upgrade.

That is my point, but you want to dance around it and claim I am tied to TT. No, I am trying to make a balanced game that accounts for lore and history of the game including TT from which everything evolved from.

BTW, the huge flawed imbalanced crap in this game is from where they diverted from TT. SSRMS, ECM, Heat, Matchmaking.

You really think that, at this late date, they're going to so fundamentally change the way weapons work? You really think they're going to unbalance the entire game by so drastically altering heat, firing rates, and damage of weapons? If you think the game is unbalanced now, you would lose your crap when you saw how unbalanced it would be if they tried that right now.

They're not going to do that. They're just not. It would require rooting up an absurd amount of work they've already done, and would require an absurd amount of work to bring it close to balanced again.

[Kdogg788]

This topic is seriously on the verge of needing to be closed as it's digressed in a series of personal attacks. You can't say to players who've been here since last summer in closed beta how you know all about how the game should be run when you yourself have only been registered a couple months.

-k

[Mercules]

Shumabot, on 25 March 2013 - 10:23 AM, said:

That is the only possible way you can say that a dual ac20 jager, which can fire infinitely without overheating, is heat intensive.

Only if it has Double Heat sinks.... If it has Single then it overheats... I believe that was his point. That isn't even a cheese build though. Now the Splatapult creates 6 heat per second while firing dispersing 2 with only 10 Double, that is heat intensive.

[Shumabot]

Kdogg788, on 25 March 2013 - 10:27 AM, said:

Wow, all I can say is there is no saving you after an epic uncalled for personal attack rant like that. I'm wondering who hasn't played the game before... AC20s DO generate a good amount of heat, and poptart builds are in danger or overheating if they spam their PPCs. An Atlas can not alpha five minutes straight with nearly any build. The only thing illogical here is why you continue to advance your argument, and if you continue to address people like this how can you expect anyone to have faith in your reasoning.

-k

A dual AC20 Jager with an xl280 has a 71% cooling efficiency. That is one of the highest available on any mech configuration in the entire game. Of course I'm going to insult you, your arguments are awful, selfish, and full of lies.

Mercules, on 25 March 2013 - 10:32 AM, said:

Only if it has Double Heat sinks.... If it has Single then it overheats... I believe that was his point. That isn't even a cheese build though. Now the Splatapult creates 6 heat per second while firing dispersing 2 with only 10 Double, that is heat intensive.

If it has singles it still overheats slower than any other mech with singles. This is the logic of a five year old. Stop it and leave me alone.

[Mercules]

Mackman, on 25 March 2013 - 10:30 AM, said:

You really think that, at this late date, they're going to so fundamentally change the way weapons work? You really think they're going to unbalance the entire game by so drastically altering heat, firing rates, and damage of weapons? If you think the game is unbalanced now, you would lose your crap when you saw how unbalanced it would be if they tried that right now.

They're not going to do that. They're just not. It would require rooting up an absurd amount of work they've already done, and would require an absurd amount of work to bring it close to balanced again.

It's not that big a change. It would be adjusting values which they have done several times. It would actually swing the game back into balance some. Adjusting hitboxes probably takes more effort than what I am suggesting.

[Shumabot]

Mercules, on 25 March 2013 - 10:36 AM, said:

It's not that big a change. It would be adjusting values which they have done several times. It would actually swing the game back into balance some. Adjusting hitboxes probably takes more effort than what I am suggesting.

That would annihilate game balance, and require a full and total reworking of the damage numbers of every single weapon. It would also accomplish absolutely nothing.

[Joseph Mallan]

Shumabot, on 25 March 2013 - 10:28 AM, said:

Sarcasm[color=#000000] is "a sharp, bitter, or cutting expression or remark; a bitter gibe or [/color]taunt[color=#000000]",[/color]^[1][color=#000000] usually conveyed through [/color]irony[color=#000000] or [/color]understatement[color=#000000].[/color]^[2][color=#000000] Most authorities distinguish sarcasm from irony;[/color]^[3][color=#000000] however, others argue that sarcasm may or often does involve irony[/color]^[4][color=#000000] or employs [/color]ambivalence[color=#000000].[/color]^[5]

You never read anyone being sarcastic in a book? Oh wait.

>book

Yeah, that makes sense.

This isn't a book it is a discussion, between people who have never heard the other's mode of speaking. Telling me

Quote

[color=#959595] I could point you to an eye doctor, at that point you might start reading and comprehending these posts.[/color]

Is not sarcasm. It was not bitter, definitely not sharp or remotely cutting. It was a lame attempt at being offensive. most of your arguments have been shot down in flames, and when it happens you attempt to deflect away from it.

There is no need to get rid of Single Sinks. They are less effective than Doubles as they should be. But that is not a reason to get rid of them. Lots of us have build perfectly viable Mechs with singles. The MMOs heat system is at fault for the issues with heat. Firing 2-3 times while the sinks are stuck at TT value is the problem. If heat was vented in 5 seconds instead of 10(TT value) then Trail Mechs would be far superior to what they are now. Still not Custom good, but better.

[Kdogg788]

Mackman, on 25 March 2013 - 10:30 AM, said:

You really think that, at this late date, they're going to so fundamentally change the way weapons work? You really think they're going to unbalance the entire game by so drastically altering heat, firing rates, and damage of weapons? If you think the game is unbalanced now, you would lose your crap when you saw how unbalanced it would be if they tried that right now.

They're not going to do that. They're just not. It would require rooting up an absurd amount of work they've already done, and would require an absurd amount of work to bring it close to balanced again.

This. And to clarify

Shumabot, on 25 March 2013 - 10:35 AM, said:

A dual AC20 Jager with an xl280 has a 71% cooling efficiency. That is one of the highest available on any mech configuration in the entire game. Of course I'm going to insult you, your arguments are awful, selfish, and full of lies.



If it has singles it still overheats slower than any other mech with singles. This is the logic of a five year old. Stop it and leave me alone.

AC20 produces 6 heat, which is only 2 less than a PPC. An SRM6 generates 4 heat, which means a fully loaded splatcat can generate 24 heat per Alpha strike, which is more than enough heat to get into overheat danger quickly. So in short, as the other guy stated above, there is an extremely remote chance of any drastic changes so get off your high horse let's stop with the attacks, because it's uncalled for. If I really said what I wanted to, I'd probably get banned off here. If I can restrain myself, so should you.

-k

[Shumabot]

Joseph Mallan, on 25 March 2013 - 10:41 AM, said:

This isn't a book it is a discussion, between people who have never heard the other's mode of speaking. Telling me

Is not sarcasm. It was not bitter, definitely not sharp or remotely cutting. It was a lame attempt at being offensive. most of your arguments have been shot down in flames, and when it happens you attempt to deflect away from it.

There is no need to get rid of Single Sinks. They are less effective than Doubles as they should be. But that is not a reason to get rid of them. Lots of us have build perfectly viable Mechs with singles. The MMOs heat system is at fault for the issues with heat. Firing 2-3 times while the sinks are stuck at TT value is the problem. If heat was vented in 5 seconds instead of 10(TT value) then Trail Mechs would be far superior to what they are now. Still not Custom good, but better.

[Joseph Mallan]

Shumabot, on 25 March 2013 - 10:44 AM, said:

I am glad you finally gave up. You have been a disruption that needed to step back and reevaluate your position.

[Shumabot]

Kdogg788, on 25 March 2013 - 10:43 AM, said:

This. And to clarify



AC20 produces 6 heat, which is only 2 less than a PPC. An SRM6 generates 4 heat, which means a fully loaded splatcat can generate 24 heat per Alpha strike, which is more than enough heat to get into overheat danger quickly. So in short, as the other guy stated above, there is an extremely remote chance of any drastic changes so get off your high horse let's stop with the attacks, because it's uncalled for. If I really said what I wanted to, I'd probably get banned off here. If I can restrain myself, so should you.

-k

An ac20 generates 1.5 heat per second. Two of them is the equivalent of 3 medium lasers. On a 65 ton mech with the equivalent of 23.4 heat sinks.

Seriously, what is wrong with you.

Edited by Shumabot, 25 March 2013 - 10:46 AM.

[Mercules]

Shumabot, on 25 March 2013 - 10:35 AM, said:

If it has singles it still overheats slower than any other mech with singles. This is the logic of a five year old. Stop it and leave me alone.

Lets ignore I stated it wasn't a "Cheese Build" by any definition. The other point is that a mech balanced with a few ballistic for low heat punch, a few missiles for much the same, and energy weapons so it doesn't rely on ammo can get away with single heat sinks especially if it isn't firing every weapon at once. But that is not "optimized" for things like "Short Range Brawling", "LRM Spam", "Poptarting", or any other thing you want to call them.

Personally I think the game would be more fun is people didn't optimize, but since we can't take the max out of the min/maxer that would boil down to can't optimize and I now others would be put off by that. This is where BV would come back into it allowing non-optimized and optimized builds to balance each other. Would Single Heat sinks be more viable if by having them on a mech it's BV was lower and allowed your team to bring other more optimized mechs? I think it might. What if you had to get into a certain range of BV? Less optimal mechs now actually become important to reaching that goal and still leaving certain ones with BV intensive equipment... those who really need it.


Excuse me, why are you getting so upset that you are resorting to name calling? I thought we were having a conversation here but I get the impression from your current tone in your writing if we were face to face you would be red and yelling while in return I am basically sitting back and sipping coffee while talking to you. If we all agreed about everything thee would be no point in discussion and I dare say very little learning going on.

[qki]

I run singles on my 3LL Gauss strea atlas, with a whopping 1 crit left, and 11 heatsinks outside the engine.

Shumabot, on 25 March 2013 - 09:59 AM, said:

Another wonderful contribution from a gold. The perfect illustration of why this game will die. 25 years of awful game design that can't be changed because that wouldn't be tradition.

Right - because you could instantly do better starting from scratch. Here's some news for you pal - single heatsinks are neither awful design, nor out of place in the game.

Besides the fact that different tech is available at different times, and 3025 is the most popular time period, there are things like zombie mechs that make extensive use of SHS in CBT. And not everyone is running around with ATMs and HLL.

Some things you just have to accept - this isn't mech warfare, or world of mechs - this is mechwarrior - a game set in the classic battletech universe, with all the implications.

[Shumabot]

Joseph Mallan, on 25 March 2013 - 10:45 AM, said:

I am glad you finally gave up. You have been a disruption that needed to step back and reevaluate your position.

qki, on 25 March 2013 - 10:46 AM, said:

I run singles on my 3LL Gauss strea atlas, with a whopping 1 crit left, and 11 heatsinks outside the engine.



Right - because you could instantly do better starting from scratch. Here's some news for you pal - single heatsinks are neither awful design, nor out of place in the game.

I could do better in my sleep, and straight resource driven upgrades in a competitive multiplayer game that doesn't matchmake based on resource investment is an awful design. This is like talking about algebra with someone who can't do addition.

Oh, and if you upgraded to doubles you would get the equivalent of 10 free heat sinks in your engine and regain 10 tons of space. Your mech is bad and you are bad at this game.

Edited by Shumabot, 25 March 2013 - 10:49 AM.

[Protection]

Again, to restate the point of this thread:

• Every single optimized design requires double heatsinks.

• Every single serious loadout is improved with double heatsinks.

• It is an absolute and total improvement in every respect.

• There is no build that is better off with Single Heatsinks.*

This is not good game design to have such a useless, extraneous feature.

Either make better use of it or get rid of it entirely.



_{* Yes, one Commando with extra ammunition can benefit from SHS, and that's it.}