237 replies to this topic

[Kahoumono]

I don't get why people have such a problem capping on maps other than river city. On river city it is very possible to not see lights making their way to your base because the of huge citidel in the middle. On all the other maps its quite easy to see which way enemy mechs are moving. If the light mech's job is to scout ahead it is the medium/heavy mech's job to watch the flanks.

[Ilwrath]

I hate base capping when I am driving anything but a scout. The entire weekend I have been driving Jenners and my perspective kinda changed. Going for the base in a scout is always a win-win situation. You will mostly split 1-2 mechs off from the main enemy force and on the huge maps you can simply run away when you see them. The damage is already done and when they move back to the main battle, you can move back to their base and sit there some more.

You don't need to cap. If it looks like the match is pretty even you can just stop capping and go get some kills.

Its really fun. Even Alpine is lots of fun when you are in a scout. I kinda like Alpine no matter what I drive but its rather relaxing when you can fart around the map at 150+.

For some reason the weekend matches was filled with the worst players I have ever seen in this game. Being able to put pressure on the other team or simply cap it helps a lot when your team has problems with hitting anything.

[Rotaugen]

Had a fun game that was gonna be a blowout but wasn't because of capping on Alpine. We we down 1-5 because the other team was all heavy snipers sitting together on a hill in the middle. I figured it was lost and ran my speedy Awesome 9M to cap. The 5 enemy started moving at me. The base counter was getting low when the first one showed up. Killed him without taking damage from the Stalker. Then the other 4 showed up. Killed 3 and got the cap going again, when the virtually undamaged Heavy Metal set foot on the base. Was moving as fast as I could and trying to hit the same CT spot. Had him red when I died with about 10 seconds of cap remaining. Even though we lost, my team said it was an exciting finish.

[Joseph Mallan]

Muffinator, on 14 April 2013 - 06:35 PM, said:

Get over yourself. I can deal with this element of the game but it would be more fun if I didn't have to. Give us a new mode for people like me who just want to fight and you can keep your basecap mode.

Or you could join every other player in TDM and be grateful someone asked for it because it will be 100% more fun.

You instantly contradicted yourself. The game is fine. The whiners stink.

[Roland]

The reality is, some folks do not want to be tethered between two anchor points along a strip that goes down the center of the map.

There's no reason not to provide a gametype that allows folks to use the entirety of the map terrain, by removing the cap points.

There are a a variety of mechanisms that can be used to eliminate the potential issue of a light mech running off to hide.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Given that conquest made it into the game, and that is the worst implementation of take and hold i have ever seen, i fail to see why people are against TDM.
Nobody is asking for them to remove assault, they are asking for a separate game mode, alot of people prefer it and yes even though it may result in some games be find the light mech.

Assault is not really it's named game mode until one side actually has to assault something...ie a walled off turret defended base.

[Star Captain Obvious Kerensky]

Once the game is 12 v 12 it gets even more interesting. 6 ravens wolfpacking can capture an undefended base in about 30 seconds.

So in your avg. 12 man game, some poor ******* (and probably 3 of his friends) is going to be forced to sit back at base and watch their friends get all the XP and Cbills.

[stjobe]

You know, when you hear Betty say "Base is being captured" and that red warning text flashes about your base being captured, you know what you should do?

No, not ignore it and hope someone else returns to base.
No, not ignore it and then write angry forum posts about how capping is lame.
No, not ignore it.

Return and defend your freaking base.

It really is that simple.

You'll get your big stompy robot fight back at the base instead of in the middle, but hey. It's still big stompy robot fighting, isn't it?

Edited by stjobe, 15 April 2013 - 05:33 AM.

[jay35]

I just won a round where it was down to me and one enemy and I had my lasers blown off and my ballistics were out of ammo. I went and capped them out. That's the sort of scenario where it's nice to have a cap option to fall back on. The rest of the time, yeah, a proper TDM mode would be nice.

And to the person who said "TDM is just chase the last light mech around" -- the current Assault mode is just "fastest mech still alive wins", so it's really only replacing one faulty scenario with another.

[MeiSooHaityu]

I like the OPs idea of having a 5 min delay on capping, however I know some would litterally just park shut down for 5 min and wait.

Another one of my friends had a good idea. The speed of the base cap could be determined by how much time was left in the match along with the amount of mechs capping. This way (even with most the team in the base), caps would go slower the first 5 min., then after 5min, go faster, and then after 10min, go the fastest. Atleast this would give some defending forces time to respond (especially on the bigger maps).

Overall though, actual bases would be nice with automated defenses. I just don't think we will see that ever (or at least it is a LONG way off).

[Zyllos]

Zylo, on 14 April 2013 - 06:24 PM, said:

I always run in a pre-made group of at least 2 and base caps aren't generally an issue for me unless the entire enemy team is light mechs (this will be solved by weight class matching update next week).

Weight class matching is a bad idea...I just don't understand why the devs are so against tonnage matching.

Afraid that some players won't be able to pilot whatever they want? That's the whole point of Battletech, some matches just require you to play something you don't some times, either by resources or limitations.

[jay35]

Eldragon, on 15 April 2013 - 05:32 AM, said:

Once the game is 12 v 12 it gets even more interesting. 6 ravens wolfpacking can capture an undefended base in about 30 seconds.

So in your avg. 12 man game, some poor ******* (and probably 3 of his friends) is going to be forced to sit back at base and watch their friends get all the XP and Cbills.

Yep, it's definitely going to be interesting if they don't adapt the game modes to account for that sort of scenario.

The only thing to do to counter it would be to run ravens yourself. And really that's probably the only way we'll get PGI's attention if such a scenario ends up existing. Everyone would have to run ravens so it's so overwhelmingly clear that they broke the game with 12-v-12 without fixing the game modes and it has to be addressed. Otherwise they'll just chalk it up to whatever excuse they use to not deal with certain other issues.

[Roland]

Zyllos, on 15 April 2013 - 05:37 AM, said:

Weight class matching is a bad idea...I just don't understand why the devs are so against tonnage matching.

Afraid that some players won't be able to pilot whatever they want? That's the whole point of Battletech, some matches just require you to play something you don't some times, either by resources or limitations.

Well, the real reason why the devs can't do real tonnage matching is because it kind of depends upon your team being made up prior to the drop.... You say, "Ok, we have 300 tons... this is what we're gonna take."

It worked well in MW4, where we had the ability to talk prior to the match. In this game, unless you are in the 8 man queue, you really have no ability to coordinate forces prior to the drop... so having a hard tonnage limit wouldn't work that well.

[Joseph Mallan]

MeiSooHaityu, on 15 April 2013 - 05:37 AM, said:

I like the OPs idea of having a 5 min delay on capping, however I know some would litterally just park shut down for 5 min and wait.

if you cannot get back to our base to defend it in 10 minutes or more you have failed not the game.

[MaddMaxx]

Caladan Nix, on 14 April 2013 - 06:24 PM, said:

I'll keep saying it-

PGI needs to make them REAL bases. The capper should have to get past Turrets, Calliopes, troops with SRM launchers, then break open some Blast Doors and have to stand in that area and hold ground...

It would make it more of an actual "capture" than just standing in a highlighted route...

An even better plan would be to have the actual Players defend it, like it was real.

A legged Assault makes a great Turret.
A SplatCat is a perfect Calliope.
And 3L's with sSRM's make great, fast defensive troops.

Until these new thing exist, best to make use of the Tools you have, not complain about tools you don't. Complaining never won many battles, whereas, properly applied firepower sure does.

[Mercules]

Ah the weekly, "I don't understand how to play conquest." thread.

It is still simple, just like it was last year. "Defend your base."

Objective = Capture Base

Killing all mechs means you auto capture the base. Standing there without being opposed means you capture the base.

That means your primary concern is making sure your base doesn't get captured. So it is in your best interest to find out where the enemy is and kill them before they ever get close to your base. It seems, however, that some people who claim all they want is a good fight go out of their way to be completely oblivious to mechs that might flank them and avoid that fight then want to complain about it.

Edited by Mercules, 15 April 2013 - 05:55 AM.

[Agent KI7KO]

The issue here is that the game encourages you to stick together as a team. Pulling back to base splits up the team.

This is fine, however I *think* assault base cap should regenerate 1% per second that it is unoccupied, and that shooting a capper should disable him from capping for 3 seconds.

[RickySpanish]

ITT: Lots of twits who think they are strategically minded throwing up dumb ideas like "herp derp leave some of your guys to defend". No. The most viable strategies in MWO are either not moving so far from your base that you cannot return to defend it, or not leaving your base at all. Of those two strategies, not leaving your base at all works in pretty much all cases except River City. The base capping mechanic is idiotically implemented without an actual BASE to capture but it's the best PGI could do, because with straight up TDM you'd be chasing fast mechs all ******* day. /thread.

[Thundercles]

Capping, in concept, is fine. In implementation it's absolutely silly. (Speaking of assault mode here.)
All it needs is a clear-cut definition of who's assaulting, and who's defending. Right now, with the mechanics in place, cap-win games are usually decided before the first minute is out... if one team dares stray more then 30-40 seconds away from their base when the other team decides that capping is their goal, it's pretty much over. Hail-mary caps after main engagements are a bit different, but those are a lot more rare in my experience.

[DerSpecht]

Muffinator, on 14 April 2013 - 07:55 PM, said:

OK so you agree it sucks - why not just change it? Why is this so hard for anyone to grasp? I'm not QQing. I did get over it. I also think this game mode could be improved to be more fun.

More fubn to you and your squad. What about the others who actually enjoy capping?