273 replies to this topic

[Nebelfeuer]

Somehow this tread made me laugh. How about playing a balanced loadout instead of whining that highly specialised ones are not faceroll-win-buttons in all situations? LRM may not be the highest dmg weapons right now but i still take some along to supress snipers and guess what, it works! Combine it with ER weapon or a single gauss and you are able to handle all kind Boatbuilds aswell - and add some close quarter weapons to make your punch harder in brawl - speed can be used to compensate weaknesses in on distance category. Result: a specialised build may be slightly supirior at a certain distance but you can do damage at all ranges and in all situations and threfore take advantage of the weaknesses of the specialised builds and it is way less frustrating and not limited to a single tactic.
Look at the original mechdesigns for inspiration most of them are made to cover differend roles.

a suggestion like the one of the poster above me would probably help aswell to prevent onesided builds highalpha pinpoint stupidity

Edited by Nebelfeuer, 17 April 2013 - 03:56 AM.

[Alopias]

Hi all,

what do you think about this solution. - Ballistic Weapons cannot be fired during "jump" phase. - It would be actually be logical, since a ballistic weapon produces a recoil and in air without any counterforce it should be a disaster. So no more Highlander shooting GAUSS in Midair. The second thing that people complain about are the PPC Stalker. My suggestion is to increase the min Range to 180m (same as LRMs), so Stalker with PPC builds would much more easy get in trouble. I would not really touch the ERPPC since the HEAT is already a major problem. Maybe you could increase the weight from 7 to 8 other than that I think the ERPPC is balanced.

What do you think?

[Joseph Mallan]

RiceyFighter, on 16 April 2013 - 08:23 PM, said:

The entire game has become nothing but highlanders playing with gauss and PPCs. Stalkers boating PPCs, and Cataphracts with gauss and PPCs.For brawler pilots it been absolute hell for us. Can't even get to fight without being blown up left and right trying to move into position and into cover.

Can't have fun fighting up close when getting there means certain death : /

Seriously at a huge slump, I hate playing gauss and PPCs because my accuracy sucks, and I do best up close and personal.

/rant

I am going on a break from this game.

PS: The bugs in this game is not helping much. I accidentally killed 3 friendlies because of HUD issues. Crash in game every 4 matches.

Thanks for reading me ranting and I hope all of you enjoy playing MechWarrior Online. In till then o7

I would have thought that a brawler would like facing Gauss and PPCs. Gauss are glass hammers and PPCs don't work well in tight. I use Gauss and ERPPC For range and also for thump in close to supplement my SRMs. If you only pack for a knife fight you have made a tactical error.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 17 April 2013 - 04:07 AM.

[Zaptruder]

So after an evening of PPC warrior online, I'll be taking a break until the meta moves on from sniping builds (heavily exacerbated by jump sniping highlanders). The biggest problem in my opinion is that engaging in the cheese doesn't make provide me with satisfaction. It gives me a chance to win, but it doesn't feel satisfying to play - win or lose. So this is my notice.

Again, if this game is going to err towards something, it should err towards brawling and lasers. Much more satisfying weapons to play with and against. But really, it should aim to be solidly balanced for all weapon groups and play styles if at all possible.

[Joseph Mallan]

Zaptruder, on 17 April 2013 - 04:09 AM, said:

So after an evening of PPC warrior online, I'll be taking a break until the meta moves on from sniping builds (heavily exacerbated by jump sniping highlanders). The biggest problem in my opinion is that engaging in the cheese doesn't make provide me with satisfaction. It gives me a chance to win, but it doesn't feel satisfying to play - win or lose. So this is my notice.

Again, if this game is going to err towards something, it should err towards brawling and lasers. Much more satisfying weapons to play with and against. But really, it should aim to be solidly balanced for all weapon groups and play styles if at all possible.

If it's going to err it should err towards everything having a place. If it's brawlers only our Fire support players will want to leave, and vice versa. So learn to fight the Pop!

[Livewyr]

Noobzorz, on 16 April 2013 - 09:07 PM, said:

Don't worry. There is no way that a group of dudes with this level of sophistication are stupid enough to believe that underlined bit. It's just a put on so people don't rage. Not a very effective one, of course, but still.

I dunno man.. 60+ pages of argument and counter argument, proposal and counter proposal.. and you see what we got for an ECM change..

I don't doubt their are some brilliant minds in there.. in fact there is evidence that their ARE brilliant minds in there.. but when it comes to certain issues, their brilliance is disrupted.

[William Warriors]

Blue Shield Particle Field Damper or Ferro-Lamellor armor are the solution... but have to wait for years before they come out.

As for ECM, It is the Bloodhound Active Probe, again it will be years before that come out to..
.

Edited by William Conrad, 17 April 2013 - 04:30 AM.

[Arctourus]

I feel your pain. We all like our individual playstyles and it's upsetting when yours is threatened. One of my mechs is a 2 erppc trebuchet. I enjoy sniping with it from time to time. To be honest, even though I tend to land a lot of shots, I rarely get many kills and my points at the end of the match are average at best. I think the spirit behind these types of weapons were meant to give a mech a good punch at distance, but never really to be abused like 5-6 ppc stalkers do. Having a balanced build is a lot more fun, in my opinion, but there will always be boaters. Here is a suggestion for you. My trebuchet was originally set up as a brawler until I decided I wanted to get a light mech for the fun of it. I found that, once my Jenner was outfitted with four lasers and two srm4s, the play style was quite similar to a brawler, just less prolonged. While brawlers stand face to face and pound each other, lights like the setup I have run up quickly, get a few shots off, and then run away for a second, only to return. All in all, a faster paced variation of a brawler. With that in mind, I can tell you, there is nothing harder than trying to hit a small, fast mech with a ppc when they are running circles around you. This must be even harder in a slow stalker. Look at the lights, find something that intrigues you, and outfit it for a ppc/gauss boat killer. When you get close, unless they are extremely lucky, they simply die. Frustrate them enough, and you'll see fewer of them.

[Zaptruder]

Joseph Mallan, on 17 April 2013 - 04:18 AM, said:

If it's going to err it should err towards everything having a place. If it's brawlers only our Fire support players will want to leave, and vice versa. So learn to fight the Pop!

You do know that err means right? Ideally everything would have its place, but if there must be a fault with balance, then balance it towards brawling - the element that most makes Mechwarrior unique relative to other modern shooters.

[Belorion]

hood, on 17 April 2013 - 03:46 AM, said:

Easy fix.. Limit the number of same weapons to 2. Er or non ER would count. So lets take a Stalker. 2 PPC's not 2 ER and 2 regular just 2. Med rang stuff you can have 4 and short as much as you want. Just an idea.

Is this even a serious post? First off, one of the combinations the OP listed was 2 ppcs + a Gauss.

2nd there doesn't need to be a fix, because there is nothing wrong with the current system. If you think boats are so op then run one. The rest of us will tear you apart with our close range brawlers when you are sitting in your 6 ppc build unable to touch us.

[Arctourus]

Alopias, on 17 April 2013 - 03:49 AM, said:

Hi all,

what do you think about this solution. - Ballistic Weapons cannot be fired during "jump" phase. - It would be actually be logical, since a ballistic weapon produces a recoil and in air without any counterforce it should be a disaster. So no more Highlander shooting GAUSS in Midair. The second thing that people complain about are the PPC Stalker. My suggestion is to increase the min Range to 180m (same as LRMs), so Stalker with PPC builds would much more easy get in trouble. I would not really touch the ERPPC since the HEAT is already a major problem. Maybe you could increase the weight from 7 to 8 other than that I think the ERPPC is balanced.

What do you think?

technically, a gauss gun is a recoiless weapon. It's a dense metal slug accelerated using electromagnets. That's why gauss ammo doesn't explode...there is no gunpowder involved.

[TheSteelRhino]

RiceyFighter, on 16 April 2013 - 08:23 PM, said:

The entire game has become nothing but highlanders playing with gauss and PPCs. Stalkers boating PPCs, and Cataphracts with gauss and PPCs.For brawler pilots it been absolute hell for us. Can't even get to fight without being blown up left and right trying to move into position and into cover.

Can't have fun fighting up close when getting there means certain death : /

Seriously at a huge slump, I hate playing gauss and PPCs because my accuracy sucks, and I do best up close and personal.

/rant

I am going on a break from this game.

PS: The bugs in this game is not helping much. I accidentally killed 3 friendlies because of HUD issues. Crash in game every 4 matches.

Thanks for reading me ranting and I hope all of you enjoy playing MechWarrior Online. In till then o7

Sorry u are having problems. Yes the bugs suck, but it is still Beta. They'll hammer them out, they just have a lot of content to push. It takes time

Now, I get your frustration. I used to feel that way about Splat cats. I had to go to ppcs and gauss in a heavy, to keep them ar range. It worked, but i dont love heavies. I am a medium pilot myself
Jumpjets or not, if you use terrain For cover they cannot hit you. And they cannot hit you when u are behind them.

Have you considered going to a different mech or loadout. Try a fast centurion or treb.
Or combine large lasers and srms. Lasers are very easy to correct due to beam duration.
If you want to not play that is your choice. But i would submit that your srm cat was the "cheese build" not to long ago.

And it would appear that you are not happy b/c their "cheese build" is better than yours.

Go spend some the in the mechlab, take your beatings in game until you find what DOES work

[The Cheese]

Belorion, on 17 April 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

The rest of us will tear you apart with our close range brawlers when you are sitting in your 6 ppc build unable to touch us.

All the while, the Highlanders, Cataphracts and other Stalkers on his team will be tearing you apart with ERPPCs and Gauss. That's if you're lucky enough to get within AC/20 range of him. That's the problem people are talking about.

There's just no place for close range brawlers right now because they get torn apart while moving into their effective range. And even if they do get within their effective range, there's still a team filled with ERPPCs and Gauss that are no less effective at knife fight range than they are when they're kilometer away.

Personally, I can't wait until we can brawl again. The games we're seeing now are getting pretty tedious.

Edited by The Cheese, 17 April 2013 - 04:46 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Zaptruder, on 17 April 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

You do know that err means right? Ideally everything would have its place, but if there must be a fault with balance, then balance it towards brawling - the element that most makes Mechwarrior unique relative to other modern shooters.

Yeah I do. If you balance towards one thing then you have failed to balance at all. Sniping, Fire Support, Brawling all need to have their place in the game. Brawlers need to respect the missile clouds and Sniper, Snipers should respect the Brawler & Fire Support, And Missiles should respect brawlers and Snipers. A good team mix should be 4-6 brawlers, 2-3 Fire Support/Snipers, 1-2 Scouts.

My main Atlas is a Sniping Brawler (Gauss and 2 ER Lasers + 3 SRM4)

[Alopias]

Arctourus, on 17 April 2013 - 04:33 AM, said:

technically, a gauss gun is a recoiless weapon. It's a dense metal slug accelerated using electromagnets. That's why gauss ammo doesn't explode...there is no gunpowder involved.

I know the principle of a GAUSS or Railgun, no mechanical parts, no gunpowder and so on, but was not sure about the recoil. I will take your word for it. May they should than think about increasing the heat lvl for the GAUSS.

[Adamski]

Arctourus, on 17 April 2013 - 04:33 AM, said:

technically, a gauss gun is a recoiless weapon. It's a dense metal slug accelerated using electromagnets. That's why gauss ammo doesn't explode...there is no gunpowder involved.

Newtonian physics, accelerating the gauss slug still causes recoil from the electromagnets overcoming the inertia.

Poptarts and Snipers in general are a fairly easy fix, have jumpjets create heat & screenshake / rattle because these are mechs not aerofighters. Second, increase the reload/cooldown on sniping weapons, which will give brawlers a greater advantage when they do close range.

Also, some improvements to Alpine & Caustic would be nice so that there are more places to brawl than Epsilon and top of the Mountain.

Also, a buff to LRM travel speed and damage would be nice, with a reduction in splash damage. These are missiles meant to penetrate armor, which means the explosive force should be designed to impact as small an area as possible to improve penetration.

[The Cheese]

Alopias, on 17 April 2013 - 04:46 AM, said:

May they should than think about increasing the heat lvl for the GAUSS.

The gauss rifle is fine. They'll break if an enemy looks at them funny, and when they do, there's a good chance they'll take a chunk of your torso with them.

I don't think that the PPCs or Gauss need changing (maybe a slight travel time nerf for the PPC, nothing major). They just need to make LRMs not terrible so that:
1) there's a reason to play a scout.
2) so that the snipers can be hurt when they're behind the kind of cover that they use for poptarting.

Edited by The Cheese, 17 April 2013 - 04:52 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Adamski, on 17 April 2013 - 04:47 AM, said:

Poptarts and Snipers in general are a fairly easy fix, have jumpjets create heat & screenshake / rattle because these are mechs not aerofighters. Second, increase the reload/cooldown on sniping weapons, which will give brawlers a greater advantage when they do close range.

QFT. This right here is it in a nut shell, Jumping a multi-ton robot in the air should rattle the HUD so much we should not be able to aim at the planet!

[Erasus Magnus]

Bobcat023, on 16 April 2013 - 08:30 PM, said:

I'd fix it by bringing back missles to keep the snipers in check and put some kind of limit on JJ, like a short recharge time or something, so they can't jump every second of the match.

that would break every jump capable lights` neck. so, NO!

[Zaptruder]

Joseph Mallan, on 17 April 2013 - 04:44 AM, said:

Yeah I do. If you balance towards one thing then you have failed to balance at all. Sniping, Fire Support, Brawling all need to have their place in the game. Brawlers need to respect the missile clouds and Sniper, Snipers should respect the Brawler & Fire Support, And Missiles should respect brawlers and Snipers. A good team mix should be 4-6 brawlers, 2-3 Fire Support/Snipers, 1-2 Scouts.

My main Atlas is a Sniping Brawler (Gauss and 2 ER Lasers + 3 SRM4)

Blargh. I hate semantic battles on the internet. Because I'm frequently right, and have to explain in painful excruciating detail the semantics, when the real intent from the other party is to segue into a strawman to fill their own agenda.

So this time, I'll stray from a protracted discussion on the finer nuances of language and agreements on how to best use it, and simply say, WHATEVER MAN. THAT'S YOUR OPINION!