378 replies to this topic

[Tennex]

Adridos, on 18 June 2013 - 08:13 PM, said:

Actually, TT did consider the Stalker's profile and gave anyone shooting at it +1 attack "debuff" (the basic roll to hit was highered by one) just because of the profile.

As far as Stalker being all around superior, yes, it is... they allowed us to make just about anything from the mechs we get and it's only logical that as long as speed is constant or very close, the heavier is always better.

do these massive mechs get a +1 attack buff in TT because they are so easy to hit too lol

Edited by Tennex, 19 June 2013 - 07:11 AM.

[AdamBaines]

Im not in the "sky is falling" because of incorrect mech size group, but I do agree it needs to be Re-evaluated, as the post suggests.

[Tennex]

Adridos, on 19 June 2013 - 07:39 AM, said:

It's currently the 3rd highest mech now, actually.

Edited by Tennex, 19 June 2013 - 05:27 PM.

[General Taskeen]

lulz the quickdraw is an assault mech

[General Taskeen]

Strum Wealh, on 17 June 2013 - 09:56 AM, said:

original Awesome artwork (TRO 3025 & TRO 3039)


Awesome in action (Classic BattleTech Universe)

All I see is the following from those early pictures:

1st Picture: Awesome, alone by itself, because its badass and can handle on its own. Skinny Center torso, High Torso Shields, less wide, less fat.

2nd Picture: Awesome, charging the line, because its badass, and his buddy mechs -> The Hermes was a noob scout and got his leg shot, while the Awesome charged in Leeroy Jenkins style annihilating everything, with a Hunchback buddy as a friend. The awesome also has a skinny CT, High torso shields, less wide, less fat. Hell it looks about the same width as the Hunchback.

Also things missing: Awesomes were lethal all ranges, with PPC's (daring pilots could turn off Field Inhibitors), and the Awesome could punch and kick. At the Battle of Galtor III an Awesome Commander held out until the very end, his mech unable to move, the commander destroyed many mechs, but became overwhelmed.

Quote

The Awesome is widely used as an initial penetration assault vehicle. Massed Awesome assault lances are sent to destroy a point in the enemy defenses, allowing units that follow to exploit the breach.

Quote

The Awesome is just that. When seen ponderously approaching in battle formation, these `Mechs strike fear in the hearts of even seasoned MechWarriors.

^When I see an Awesome as it is modeled in the game I am not struck with fear, I smile and see C-Bills.

Quoting aside of what the Awesome "was" is moot, when the 3D model of the Awesome is still too wide and its hit boxes are affecting its competitive-ness vs. other Mechs.

And its not just the Awesome that suffers, there are scaling problems across all weight classes and it does matter.

[Ragnar Darkmane]

The devs should consider rebalancing the size of all the mechs.

[Tennex]

Edited by Tennex, 19 June 2013 - 06:15 PM.

[Keifomofutu]

Tennex, on 19 June 2013 - 05:00 PM, said:

This makes it pretty obvious. Stalker needs to be much wider. About 20-25% actually.

Edited by Keifomofutu, 19 June 2013 - 09:00 PM.

[Tennex]

Keifomofutu, on 19 June 2013 - 09:00 PM, said:

This makes it pretty obvious. Stalker needs to be much wider. About 20-25% actually.

yup if people couldn't already tell from the images themselves. there are now numbers to back this.


if it wasn't for the stalker's posture, it would look smaller than the catapult even in game.

Edited by Tennex, 19 June 2013 - 09:22 PM.

[Keifomofutu]

Tennex, on 19 June 2013 - 09:21 PM, said:

yup if people couldn't already tell from the images themselves. there are now numbers to back this.


if it wasn't for the stalker's posture, it would look smaller than the catapult even in game.

INB4 Catapult is built from feathers and Stalker is made of bricks LTP!

[TehSBGX]

I'm pretty sure The Cent and Treb need to be about 15% or even 20% smaller, Blackjack would be smaller too.

The Stalker though, dear god it should not be smaller than a Cat.... Plus how much it's just gonna always dominate the Meta due to how well it boats, make it bigger and rework those hitboxes.

[Corvus Antaka]

1. a statement from PGI as to how they are scaling/deciding on mech hieghts. are these values from tabletop?

2. if not, why are the mechs scaled as they are, why is it so hard to scale them up/down, and why are 60 ton mechs as tall as an atlas?

[Roland]

Neolisk, on 23 April 2013 - 05:07 PM, said:

Stalker does not have arm actuators - this is a major drawback from the other chassis you mentioned.

It does not need more nerfing.

In practice, not having lower arm actuators actually tends to be an ADVANTAGE in MWO.

It results in your weapons being mounted higher, enabling easier sniping. It also means that you have more available critical slots in your mech to use for weapons and stuff.

In TT, having lower arm actuators is a straight up upgrade, taking up critical slots.. but in MWO, it tends to actually hurt mech performance.

[Tennex]

Ghogiel, on 20 June 2013 - 03:24 PM, said:

Here are 2 mechs, that aren't the same weight class, but are whacky in size, that were assembled from the in game geometry (not the fat torso catapult model that is never used in game you see often).




These numbers should be fairly accurately measured. It's not completely 100% exact, as making the enclosed model in the space of 5mins instead of possible hours brings in a small inaccuracy of the surface, this is the level of inaccuracy >

not sure if this method is accurate. but the volumes came out

333 units squared for the catapult
359 units squared for the stalker

If a volume a mech of 333units of volume is 65 tons. then a mech with 359 units of volume should be 70 tons.

Currently the stalker is the size of a 70 ton mech.

Edited by Tennex, 20 June 2013 - 04:09 PM.

[General Taskeen]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 20 June 2013 - 08:49 AM, said:

1. a statement from PGI as to how they are scaling/deciding on mech hieghts. are these values from tabletop?

Well it can't be table top, since there is a manual, I forget the name, that shows some Mechs side by side, and a Centurion is shown as the same height as a Hunchback.

[Ghogiel]

Tennex, on 20 June 2013 - 03:37 PM, said:

Currently the stalker is the size of a 70 ton mech.

Only compared to an oversized 65ton heavy mech with massive ears. The CPLT is probably biggest anomaly in the entire line up of mechs...

[ReissTC]

Out of the lot I feel like the Centurion is the worse off. Damn near the size of the Awesome with almost half the armour. One day I want to use an XL engine in a Cent, not get insta-killed thanks to my massive side torsos, and actually have firepower that's proportionately higher than a light mech so that I no longer feel useless.

[Strum Wealh]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 20 June 2013 - 08:49 AM, said:

1. a statement from PGI as to how they are scaling/deciding on mech hieghts. are these values from tabletop?

2. if not, why are the mechs scaled as they are, why is it so hard to scale them up/down, and why are 60 ton mechs as tall as an atlas?

General Taskeen, on 20 June 2013 - 03:52 PM, said:

Well it can't be table top, since there is a manual, I forget the name, that shows some Mechs side by side, and a Centurion is shown as the same height as a Hunchback.

Per the BattleTech Line Developer, the TT scale has the minimum height of a 'Mech as 8 meters (26.25 feet) and the maximum height as 14 meters (45.93 feet).

There is also the scale chart from pg. 303 of TRO 3039:


If we assume a height of 1.7 meters (approximately 5'7", the midpoint of the range of average heighs for modern human males as of February 2012) for the human next to the Banshee, the Commando is on the order of ~7.93 meters (~26.01 feet) tall and the Banshee was on the order of ~11.33 meters (~37.17 feet) tall.

Additionally, I posted the estimate of a TT Centurion (50-ton Medium 'Mech; the TT version is much more upright and humanoid than the MWO rendition; it is the same mass and roughly the same proportions as the pictured Enforcer) being about 10 meters (~32.08 feet) tall, based on normal human proportions and the Centurion's head being about the size of a large Mini (1.35 meters (~4.42 feet) tall, 1.40 meters (~4.59 feet) wide, and 3.30 meters (~10.82 feet) long).
(With exact human proportions, the TT Centurion and the Enforcer should be closer to 10.8 meters tall.)

That being said, the MWO Atlas is around 18 meters tall, though I've seen both 18 meters and 17.6 meters given.

(courtesy of Bishop Steiner, circa January 2013)

17.6m/14.0m = 1.257 -> a ~26% increase in height in the MWO Atlas over the TT Atlas
9.7m/8.0m = 1.213 -> a ~21% increase in height in the MWO Commando over the TT Commando

14.7m/10.8m = 1.361 -> a ~36% increase in height in the MWO Centurion over what would be estimated from the TT Centurion
If put to a similar percentage increase as the others (say, ~24%), the MWO Centurion should be expected to be about 13.4 meters tall (about the same, incidentally, as the MWO Hunchback).
The MWO Trebuchet, being the same mass and roughly the same proportions, might also be expected to be around the same height (about a meter shorter than the current setting, and about a meter taller than Bishop's proposal).

[Tennex]

Ghogiel, on 20 June 2013 - 04:45 PM, said:

Only compared to an oversized 65ton heavy mech with massive ears. The CPLT is probably biggest anomaly in the entire line up of mechs...

I was simply using relative measures to illustrate how wack the sizing is.

if the Stalker is the right sized mech at 80 tons. the catapult at its current size would need to be 74 tons.
If the catapult is the right size at 65 tons, the stalker's current size would make it a 70 ton mech.

either way the volume difference between them only accounts for about 5 tons. not 15 like its supposed to.

but honestly i think the stalker needs to be a bit bigger and the catapult a bit smaller.

[Ghogiel]

Tennex, on 20 June 2013 - 10:02 PM, said:

I was simply using relative measures to illustrate how wack the sizing is.

if the Stalker is the right sized mech at 80 tons. the catapult at its current size would need to be 74 tons.
If the catapult is the right size at 65 tons, the stalker's current size would make it a 70 ton mech.

either way the volume difference between them only accounts for about 5 tons. not 15 like its supposed to.

but honestly i think the stalker needs to be a bit bigger and the catapult a bit smaller.

Stalkers are 85tons btw