Far from optimal builds, but most of these are a heck of a lot better than the SHS variants. The only real stinker here is the AWS-9M, but even then it's not that bad compared to the other Awesomes.
Far from optimal builds, but most of these are a heck of a lot better than the SHS variants. The only real stinker here is the AWS-9M, but even then it's not that bad compared to the other Awesomes.
Edit for fairness: Note that all of the following statements are assuming ZERO mech skill tree unlocks: Once you add PGI's skill system, they become incredibly overpowered compared to the others (which is why I'd like it if all stock mechs became available as 'trials' - trial mechs NEVER have pilot skills tied to them, cannot be modified, etc.).
AWS-9M, BLR-3M, STK-5M are heat death-traps.
Battlemaster overheats with just the MG, ER PPC and SRM-6 in 37 seconds. Faster if you use the exclusively the MLs.
Stalker has to alternate between its weapons and chain fire its ML to avoid overheating within 30 seconds, that's taking the LRMs out of the equation and using the rest about 50% of their firing rates.
The Awesome 9M is actually incredibly heat efficient (and more terrifying than a Victor), but compared to an Awesome 8Q it's a piece of manure when it comes to heat efficiency.
9S is if you use the flamers (1 flamer + 27 DHS = overheat).
Quickdraw overheats in 30 to 45 seconds of combat, without any SRM usage and chain firing the MLs.
The 7M, with just the 3 ML, will overheat in 50 seconds.
Don't think they're easy buttons just because they have double heatsinks. Many of the standard heatsink mechs have superior heat efficiency. You're also missing a few mechs. SHK-5M, Wolverine 7K, Griffin 3M just to name 3 that you are missing.
The irony here, is that every one of those has a larger than 250 engine, which means you're getting 10 true doubles.
Which are basically quad heatsinks when you factor in both threshold and cooling rate are doubled; don't worry MWO's SHS are basically tabletop doubles, when you add that they both cool and raise the threshold at the same rate; where tabletop's threshold never raises.
With 40 SHS in TT, you can squeeze off 6 PPCs, one at a time or 2 then 1 across 8 seconds, and just barely avoid shutting down.
But if you did the same thing with 0 seconds of cooling (aka firing all 3 at once, you shut down), Because 30 heat and 30 threshold = 100% heat = shutdown.
In MWO you could do that with 20 SHS, 3 at a time without ghost heat. Since the threshold for 20 SHS in MWO is 50 without any skill unlocks, even if you fire all 3 at once without ghost heat with no cooling, you just reach 60% heat = twiddle your thumbs and snicker. Take 20 SHS and add in pilot skills on the elite level, and you have 60 threshold, so with 0 cooling at all you can do it twice.
Even with ghost heat, with 20 SHS you'd get 85.2% heat firing 3 at once. With 20 SHS + elite skills you'd have 71% heat. That's with NO cooling applied at all.
With 40 SHS in MWO, you can squeeze off 9 PPCs, 3 at a time WITH ghost heat) This of course with cooling, specifically 8 seconds of cooling, you'd reach shutdown in 8 seconds. But remember, tabletop could only do it by firing 2, then 1, then 2, then 1 and could only squeeze off 6 without ghost heat.
So 40 SHS, tabletop 6 firing 2 then 1 then 2 then 1 in 10 total seconds to barely escape shutting down (firing one of those PPCs just a second sooner than being paced will shut it down).
40 SHS in MWO with ghost heat, 9 fired 3 at a time in 8 total seconds to shutdown.
40 SHS in MWO without ghost heat, 12 fired 3 at a time in 8 total seconds to shutdown.
So don't count SHS out, it's a LOT better here than it ever was in tabletop.
Then again the 1.4 DHS would be superior here than tabletop as well.
Calculations below are made with 20 DHS, TT (which is 40 SHS) and MWO (which is pretty close to 70 SHS when you combine threshold and cooling increases).
Spoiler
Koniving, on 05 May 2014 - 07:04 PM, said:
Psst. This build has 20 DHS. To be fair, without unlocks it wields 64 threshold and a cooling rate of 3.4/sec.
However it wields after unlocks:
Cooling Rate : 3.91 heat/sec
Heat Threshold : 76.8
on forest colony
On Forest colony snow, it wields:
Cooling Rate : 4.89 heat/sec
Heat Threshold : 96
But to slap it in Forest Colony Snow is unfair.
If you're so interested..
Lets just look at the cooling rate of 20 DHS in Tabletop.
20 * 2 / 10.
4.0/sec cooling.
You were talking about gimped, earlier?
20 DHS in MWO on forest colony (heat neutral map; no effects). 3.91/sec cooling.
20 DHS in TT without a map. 4.0/sec cooling.
The DHS is "gimped" by 0.09 on a heat neutral map. That's with ALL 20 MWO DHS; that's all you're gimped, is 0.09 out of the total. You're missing out on "0.0045" cooling per second per DHS.
Do you know how insignificant that is?
There's even combinations between 16 and 18 DHS where you have "0.21" DHS instead of 0.2 as in tabletop.
And then you add the threshold increases, and we've essentially got QHS instead of DHS.
Feel free to play with this.
---------
To add: Warning: Math a plenty!
Spoiler
With ghost heat, I can fire 3 standard PPCs 3 times in a row before I shutdown. Ghost heat adds an addition 12.6 heat per shot (essentially 4 PPCs), that's the heat of 4 PPCs + 2.6 additional heat each firing, every 4 seconds from 0 seconds, to 4 seconds, to 8 seconds. In total I've generated 42.6 heat each time with 3 intervals. That's 127.8 heat generated total. 8 seconds of cooling in tabletop from 20 DHS would be 4.0 per second, 16 heat cooled per interval so a total of 32 cooled. Which would leave me at 95.8 heat left over when I finally shut down and have to wait a while to cool. (In tabletop I'd generate 30 heat for each set which are impossible to fire at the same time, total of 90, and cool 32 leaving me at 58 out of 30 threshold; so 193.33% heat).
Except we also have MWO's cooling rate, so we wind up with: 127.8 generated, 31.28 cooled for 96.52 left over. I squeezed in, within 8 seconds, 9 PPCs.
In tabletop, I'd shutdown at 6 PPCs.
20 DHS and 30 threshold at 4 cooling/second, I'd be forced to fire 2 PPCs at a time to avoid shutting down. But we'll squeeze them off 2 then 1 every 4 seconds. Lets begin!
0 seconds fire 2 PPCs = 20 heat (66.67% threshold!)
1 second, cool 4. 16 heat.
2 seconds, cool 4 and fire 1 PPC = 12 + 10 = 22 heat.
3 seconds, cool 4. 18 heat.
4 seconds, cool 4. Fire 2 PPCs = 12 + 20 = 32 = shutdown. Couldn't even make it to 8 seconds!
5 seconds, cool 4. 28 heat.
6 seconds, cool 4. 24 heat.
7 seconds, cool 4. 20 heat.
8 seconds, cool 4, 16 heat. Fire that sixth PPC out of spite = + 10 = 26 heat.
Well damn. Couldn't even make it to six PPCs before a shutdown in the same time frame without ghost heat, let alone the 9 I can do while spitting in the face of ghost heat in MWO!
Actually that was a little rushed. Let's try that again and pace ourselves with heat management.
Trying it again, pacing myself.
20 DHS and 30 threshold at 4 cooling/second, I'd be forced to fire 2 PPCs at a time to avoid shutting down. But we'll squeeze them off 2 then 1 while pacing ourselves. Lets begin!
0 seconds fire 2 PPCs = 20 heat (66.67% threshold!)
1 second, cool 4. 16 heat.
2 seconds, cool 4 and fire 1 PPC = 12 + 10 = 22 heat.
3 seconds, cool 4. 16 heat. If I fire again I'll shutdown. Lets pace!
4 seconds, cool 4. 12 heat.
5 seconds, cool 4. 8 heat. Fire 2 PPCs + 20 heat = 28 heat. ZOMG 93.33% heat! O_O!
6 seconds, cool 4. 24 heat.
7 seconds, cool 4. 20 heat.
8 seconds, cool 4, 16 heat. Fire that sixth PPC now + 10 = 26 heat.
So that's 9 with ghost heat in MWO.
And 6 without ghost heat in Tabletop.
Both with their respective DHS styles and thresholds as dictated by their respective heat systems (MWO and tabletop).
Great thing about it is it doesn't matter what your firing pattern, when you squeeze in 6 PPCs in a heat managed way, you always wind up with the same result in the end. Which means, no matter how we fire them in MWO, we should have identical results so long as we don't hit 100% prematurely.
But that's not the case. It's tampered with using MWO's skill tree, adding an arbitrary percentage which throws things out of whack. Add to this that there's also the rising threshold, which mean nothing is consistent.
What a shame. And you think they're gimped? o.O; So far even when you slap in ghost heat, they allow you superior results. Apparently with the addition of ghost heat, you get 1.5x better results. If you take ghost heat out of the equation, you can easily squeeze in 12 PPCs in that time frame before shutdown.
Edit: Added spoiler to reduce post scroll. (Sorry guys. Math is space consuming.)
Last edit I swear, just tacking more in.
Added something else. I wanted to see just how superior the heat system was compared to tabletop. And wanted to demonstrate that DHS under certain conditions actually hurt your efficiency compared to SHS. This is exclusively meant to be used as 'proof' of the statement that MWO's SHS are tabletop's DHS when you combine the two things they do here to the one thing they do in tabletop.
Spoiler
MWO heat thresholds for 20 SHS or 10 DHS: also includes a variation caused by the 1.4 external DHS syndrome.
10 DHS TT: 30. Never changes under ANY conditions.
20 SHS TT: 30. Never changes under ANY conditions.
Lab conditions: Fire 1 ER PPC. Judge heat rise spike at the moment of firing with 0 seconds cooling.
Fire 1 ER PPC. 0 seconds cooling (in other words just the heat spike).
No cooling for 10 DHS / 20 SHS TT: 50%.
No cooling for 20 SHS no skills: 30%.
No cooling for 20 SHS with elites: 25%.
No cooling for 10 DHS 250 no skills: 30%.
No cooling for 10 DHS 250 with elites: 25%.
No cooling for 10 DHS 150 no skills: 31.51%.
No cooling for 10 DHS 150 with elites: 26.26%.
I suppose it's a bit fair to say that with threshold alone 20 SHS and 10 DHS (with a 250 or higher engine) in MWO are 2/3rds superior or 1.67x better than tabletop.
With threshold + elites: 2 times better.
-----------
The cooling rate is identical for 20 SHS and 10 DHS in MWO as it is in tabletop. But then you add in the + 15% and that 2 in 10 seconds per DHS becomes 2.3 in 10 seconds per DHS.
So for all 10 DHS / 20 SHS in MWO, that changes from 20cooling/10seconds to 23cooling/10seconds.
Essentially with elites, you turn 20 SHS or 10 DHS into 23 SHS tabletop with the cooling alone.
------------------
So, what if you combine the 2 times better threshold of elites, with the cooling rate of elites?
You're well over twice as good as TT's heatsinks, effectively making MWO's SHS into TT's DHS, and MWO's DHS into TT-quality double double heatsinks (QUADS!)
You only get hurt, at all, if you use less than a 250 engine with DHS and frankly that just isn't fair. It basically means "no slow mechs." Locust, Commando; you're GIMPED because the heatsystem PGI made up doesn't like you!
Isn't it just lovely? The reason we have pinpoint issues or even ghost heat is at its core the fault of the heat system and more specifically rising thresholds?
I don't know if stock play could ever be a mode- stock champs and stock heroes certinly don't fit in, not to mention it is unclear if the demand for stock play is actually high enough to warrant a mode and the systems required to support such a mode.
The tools they have already providd us, to run our own private matches with any restrictions we're willing to agree to, is already a big leap forward. I played SMM May 12, it was great, but is that group a big enough segment to warrant new systems, when so many other game systems(that affect all players, not a small subset) are in dire need of installation or repair? I just don't see the priority for it ever being high enough.
I would approach the issue from a different direction, and ask that they review match earnings for private matches, since if a player were to predominantly play private matches for stock, tech era, roleplay, or tournament play, then the lack of c-bills income could be crippling.
AWS-9M, BLR-3M, STK-5M are heat death-traps.
Battlemaster overheats with just the MG, ER PPC and SRM-6 in 37 seconds. Faster if you use the exclusively the MLs.
Stalker has to alternate between its weapons and chain fire its ML to avoid overheating within 30 seconds, that's taking the LRMs out of the equation and using the rest about 50% of their firing rates.
The Awesome 9M is actually incredibly heat efficient (and more terrifying than a Victor), but compared to an Awesome 8Q it's a piece of manure when it comes to heat efficiency.
9S is if you use the flamers (1 flamer + 27 DHS = overheat).
Quickdraw overheats in 30 to 45 seconds of combat, without any SRM usage and chain firing the MLs.
The 7M, with just the 3 ML, will overheat in 50 seconds.
What are you trying to prove with your overheat times? Almost every mech in the game is going to overheat if it fires more than a handful of its weapons continuously, and the few ballistic-focused exceptions are going to be severely hampered by a lack of ammunition. At least when these DHS builds run out of ammo, they still have plenty of energy weapons left and DHS to use them.
Hell, look at the STK-5M. Yes, it needs to manage its weapon groups to fire at different ranges, but the SHS Stalkers are even more limited by their heat buildup.
As for the 9M, while it is certainly the inferior PPC-thrower, it at least has some close range protection in the form of streaks and lasers, while the 8Q is pretty much defenseless with just its smalls, so it's not exactly a
You can also pretty much ignore the flamers on the TDR-9S, as no one with half a brain will use it for anything beyond a temporary cockpit blinding or last ditch-desparation move when all of its other weapons are knocked out.
Koniving, on 13 May 2014 - 08:11 AM, said:
Don't think they're easy buttons just because they have double heatsinks. Many of the standard heatsink mechs have superior heat efficiency. You're also missing a few mechs. SHK-5M, Wolverine 7K, Griffin 3M just to name 3 that you are missing.
Whoops, completley overlooked the Saber mediums somehow. Name your SHS variants that have better efficiency than these DHS variants. I bet I can poke a few holes into their supposed superiority.
What are you trying to prove with your overheat times? Almost every mech in the game is going to overheat if it fires more than a handful of its weapons continuously, and the few ballistic-focused exceptions are going to be severely hampered by a lack of ammunition. At least when these DHS builds run out of ammo, they still have plenty of energy weapons left and DHS to use them.
Hell, look at the STK-5M. Yes, it needs to manage its weapon groups to fire at different ranges, but the SHS Stalkers are even more limited by their heat buildup.
As for the 9M, while it is certainly the inferior PPC-thrower, it at least has some close range protection in the form of streaks and lasers, while the 8Q is pretty much defenseless with just its smalls.
Whoops, completley overlooked the Saber mediums somehow. Name your SHS variants that have better efficiency than these DHS variants. I bet I can poke a few holes into their supposed superiority.
My point is that unlike the common thought that "oh I have double heatsinks I can fire all my weapons over and over *prances into candy land*" isn't going to work here. Bishop seems absolutely convinced that DHS mechs would ruin the stock mode. Yet he doesn't seem aware of how easy it is to fry the heatsinks on a DHS mech versus an SHS mech. The rest was to put forth the point that contrary to popular belief, nothing about MWO's heat system equals out to tabletop.
On to what matters here:
You'd be surprised what small lasers can do. We've seen that proven during stock mech monday; the solid black Awesome 8Q nearly trumped the entire field and many players there have stated that the Awesome is "truly terrifying stock." (One thing the Awesomes have over Victors at Stock is 100 or more points of armor; this is partly the reason for their size but the game doesn't make Victors bigger for putting on the same amount of armor; I honestly do not believe in the armor equality rule and think it's a bunch of bullocks).
Awesome 8Q. Even better is the Awesome 8V; from personal experience it's nearly impossible to run this thing up to 50% at pure stock with no unlocks, provided you set weapon usage to specific ranges.
Stalkers 3H and 4N. 3H is surprisingly more heat efficient in the long run.
Battlemaster 1-D.
Orions can't top the M. And I just noticed the weirdest thing. Why in the heck would there be an 8 (Eight) tube launcher?
In proper tabletop and lore, the Jagers would have the best heat efficiency of all mechs, but they'd have almost no pinpoint damage
Spoiler
(since autocannons are fully automatic weapons and mechs with no lower arm actuators do not have pinpoint arm convergence; though in general I don't think mechs have pinpoint convergence at all.
Then there's the lore of ACs, which are between 3 and 100 shots per 'damage rating'.
Rated to do 20 damage with that AC/20? Hope it's not a Victor; it requires 100 shots to reach 20 damage, and manually reloads the AC/20 by slapping in a magazine [properly named a Cassette within the lore].
That's okay if you don't like the Pontiac 100, perhaps the largest caliber of AC/5 will do it for you?
At 120mm, there are 3 AC/5s of that size and all 3 of them have different ways of pulling off the requirement of 3 shots to do 5 damage.
But that's okay, there's AC/2s ranging from 10 shots to 4 shots. Not a fan?
Well how about the AC/10s? Their largest size [so far] is 120mm as well and are basically AC/5s that pump the bullets twice as fast, resulting in stronger recoil which in turn shortens the optimum ranges to get all shots on target.
People wonder why the LB-X cluster shot was considered superior in the books when it never made sense. Well for those people, would it make more sense now?)
Wolverine 6R.
Shadowhawk K, but admittedly one PPC isn't that scary. That is VERY high armor considering it's a Shadowhawk.
Kintaro 20 is also a DHS mech.
Trebuchet 7K can trump the 3C.
Can't trump the Quickdraw.
Griffin can't be trumped.
Now, of those mechs, the only truly scary one is in fact the Awesome, which is a heavily armored seige mech. And the worst of the bunch is the Shadowhawk, which is a forward recon, artillery spotter, and SCOUT mech for heavy lances. As it should be.
Yes there are issues with the weapons and heatsinks, but at least its something different and it feels more like BattleTech canon.
Most 'Mechs with their "loreish" configs are built with just enough SHS/DHS to handle a specific kind of loadout. As an Example, WVR-6R and GRF-3M are pretty close in heat efficiency.
In some cases, some stocks were built poorly on purpose for 'lore' reasoning like manufactured equipment that designers had poor oversight on (RFL-3N), but pilots overcame its inefficiencies.
Like in the real world where some Car is manufactured and ends up with issues, but has excellent handling, although has poor engine problems, and the next "model" designers look into those issues and make the next "model" a little better.
Edited by General Taskeen, 14 May 2014 - 10:06 AM.
Instead of a stock mech queue or game mode how about an in-lobby voting option for a stock only match. If a large majority vote for it, then each player's mech is temporarily converted to its stock form with no efficiencies -- basically it is temporally returned to the exact state it was when you purchased it.
This solves the problem of the expense of converting back and forth between custom and stock loadouts and also removes the need for an additional queue or game mode.
Awesome 8Q. Even better is the Awesome 8V; from personal experience it's nearly impossible to run this thing up to 50% at pure stock with no unlocks, provided you set weapon usage to specific ranges.
Stalkers 3H and 4N. 3H is surprisingly more heat efficient in the long run.
Battlemaster 1-D.
Wolverine 6R.
Shadowhawk K, but admittedly one PPC isn't that scary. That is VERY high armor considering it's a Shadowhawk.
Kintaro 20 is also a DHS mech.
Trebuchet 7K can trump the 3C.
Now, of those mechs, the only truly scary one is in fact the Awesome, which is a heavily armored seige mech. And the worst of the bunch is the Shadowhawk, which is a forward recon, artillery spotter, and SCOUT mech for heavy lances. As it should be.
-I'll grant you the SHS Awesomes are probably fine since they're so packed with heatsinks. The 9M wins out against the 8Q at very long range, as 2 ERPPCs will start to exceed 3 PPCs in damage past 720m, and wins out sub 200m due to its superior close-range weapons, between those ranges the 8Q reigns supreme. I had also not considered that LRMs would be even more powerful stock, as mechs move a lot slower and AMS and ECM would be uncommon.
-The STK-5M is more efficient than both the 3H and 4N at close range, though the 4N has a bigger close-range alpha. I'll also concede that the 3H has better long range efficiency than the 5M. The 5M does have better armor overall, though the difference is minor. Overall a wash.
-The Battlemaster 1D only has comparable heat efficiency numbers because it's got fewer weapons to generate heat. The 3M has much higher heat capacity and dissipation, matches the 1D blow for blow for sustainable damage, but has much higher burst capacity for the 1D. The only thing the 1D has is slightly better limb armor (not a huge deal) and a more heat-efficient long range option, though both mechs are effectively heat neutral firing just their PPCs.
-The JM6-S and JM6-DD are only sustainable if you fire just the AC5/UAC5s. The AC2s will heat them up in a hurry. They've also got paper-thin armor and will go down in a hurry.
-The WVR-7K outperforms the 6R in pretty much every metric. I don't know why you even mentioned it.
-The SDH-5M has better armor than the K, and better punch, though it's got serious ammo issues. The K is also defenseless at close range. A heavy scout might make sense in the tabletop game, but it's completely nonsensical in MWO.
-Missed the KTO-20. It's definitely the best of the bunch.
-The TBT-7M is better. Full stop. They're going for different angles as long range support mediums, but the 7M puts out far better damage for far longer than the 7K can. The 7M can also jump for potential poptart NARC + LRM shenanigans.
I would like to suggested that players receive an options to play a PGI provided stock mech with no C-Bill reward (like the old trial mechs), or provide their own purchased mech that is verified stock by the matchmaker and receive C-Bill rewards.
With options for Tier1, Teir2, with checkboxes for DHS, ECM, Modules, Cosnumable Modules, etc.
I am for a stock mode and while many suggestions would be more fun you have to remember this is a F2P game that makes its money off micro-transactions. This means they need a form of revenue from stock mode, if you allow most hero/champion mechs it becomes a pay to win mode, but excluding these cuts off most forms of them making money.
There is the very true argument that methods that require you to own a mech in stock configuration would make for people buying a LOT more mechbays I bet many would buy 35-100% more than they presently have. Mechbays aren't enough to offset the loss in people buying Hero/Champion mechs though probably.
My best suggestion would be to find other variants the Hero mechs would automatically drop as in Stock. They are using only a few of the variants that exist, and while I am not going to go through and find the perfect ones for balance purposes, they likely could find good ones. This would make people still be wanting the hero mechs. Alternatively they could add new stock variants that are buy only.
I am all for a Stock Mode but for one to happen someone needs to give them a good way to make money off it too, they are a business.
_________________________________
On heat threshold in MWO versus tabletop
Spoiler
The heat threshold actually does balance out properly you are missing an element in your reasoning.
Lets take the Awesome 8q as an example
28 SHS , 3 PPC (ignoring the SL)
in table top it fires an alpha and generates 30 heat at end of round 28 is removed and you have 2 heat left over out of your 30 threshold
next round you have 4 heat, next round you have 6 heat, on round 15 of continuous fire (150 seconds) you reach 30 heat
In MWO ignoring ghost heat (which is a convoluted stupid mechanic)
you fire 3 PPC and go to 30 heat, over the next 10 seconds you dissipate 28 heat (ignoring piloting skills) and have 2 left
after 10 seconds (one TT round) you fire 3 PPC and go to 32 heat then over 10 seconds drop to 4 heat
after 15 times of firing and 150 seconds you reach your maximum of 58 threshold and shutdown.
The key thing you are missing is in TT heat is dissipated BEFORE you check heat scale, the increased heat threshold per heatsink in MWO is a fairly accurate method of emulating this in a real time mode of gameplay.
___________________________________________________________________________________
Now you can say that you can fire them more often in MWO though, and thats true that is a Weapon cooldown issue though not a Heat Threshold issue.
Why should I take the thread seriously when the only poll options are "Yes"?
I can't imagine why anyone would want to roll in a stock mech. As the Trial Mechs show, they are absolute garbage. Customizing mechs to suit individual preferences is the great thing about MWO. Without it, MWO loses a lot of its appeal, at least for me.
Trial mechs are NOT garbage when both teams are forced to use them. Do you not see the point of this thread? This is where true SKILL will shine. It would also add much needed variety to this kinda-gettin-monotonous game.
Ningyo, on 15 May 2014 - 01:36 PM, said:
I am for a stock mode and while many suggestions would be more fun you have to remember this is a F2P game that makes its money off micro-transactions. This means they need a form of revenue from stock mode, if you allow most hero/champion mechs it becomes a pay to win mode, but excluding these cuts off most forms of them making money.
There is the very true argument that methods that require you to own a mech in stock configuration would make for people buying a LOT more mechbays I bet many would buy 35-100% more than they presently have. Mechbays aren't enough to offset the loss in people buying Hero/Champion mechs though probably.
My best suggestion would be to find other variants the Hero mechs would automatically drop as in Stock. They are using only a few of the variants that exist, and while I am not going to go through and find the perfect ones for balance purposes, they likely could find good ones. This would make people still be wanting the hero mechs. Alternatively they could add new stock variants that are buy only.
I am all for a Stock Mode but for one to happen someone needs to give them a good way to make money off it too, they are a business.
_________________________________
On heat threshold in MWO versus tabletop
Spoiler
The heat threshold actually does balance out properly you are missing an element in your reasoning.
Lets take the Awesome 8q as an example
28 SHS , 3 PPC (ignoring the SL)
in table top it fires an alpha and generates 30 heat at end of round 28 is removed and you have 2 heat left over out of your 30 threshold
next round you have 4 heat, next round you have 6 heat, on round 15 of continuous fire (150 seconds) you reach 30 heat
In MWO ignoring ghost heat (which is a convoluted stupid mechanic)
you fire 3 PPC and go to 30 heat, over the next 10 seconds you dissipate 28 heat (ignoring piloting skills) and have 2 left
after 10 seconds (one TT round) you fire 3 PPC and go to 32 heat then over 10 seconds drop to 4 heat
after 15 times of firing and 150 seconds you reach your maximum of 58 threshold and shutdown.
The key thing you are missing is in TT heat is dissipated BEFORE you check heat scale, the increased heat threshold per heatsink in MWO is a fairly accurate method of emulating this in a real time mode of gameplay.
___________________________________________________________________________________
Now you can say that you can fire them more often in MWO though, and thats true that is a Weapon cooldown issue though not a Heat Threshold issue.
What are u sayin? You would still be able to paint, add camo and put bobbles in the cockpit, etc. (all real money grabs) as these would not change the abilities of the stock mech. I like your idea of adding the option to BUY for MC/Cbills the stock mech if you want to run in that mode.
I am for a stock mode and while many suggestions would be more fun you have to remember this is a F2P game that makes its money off micro-transactions. This means they need a form of revenue from stock mode, if you allow most hero/champion mechs it becomes a pay to win mode, but excluding these cuts off most forms of them making money.
There is the very true argument that methods that require you to own a mech in stock configuration would make for people buying a LOT more mechbays I bet many would buy 35-100% more than they presently have. Mechbays aren't enough to offset the loss in people buying Hero/Champion mechs though probably.
My best suggestion would be to find other variants the Hero mechs would automatically drop as in Stock. They are using only a few of the variants that exist, and while I am not going to go through and find the perfect ones for balance purposes, they likely could find good ones. This would make people still be wanting the hero mechs. Alternatively they could add new stock variants that are buy only.
I am all for a Stock Mode but for one to happen someone needs to give them a good way to make money off it too, they are a business.
*snip*
I made the modest suggested a few days ago to for PGI to monetize Stock Mode by selling non-modifiable Stock-only chassis for low(or flat) MC amounts. These 'mechs would come pre-painted with custom art (like Davion Heavy Guards or Death Commandoes) encouraging the collection of a variety of inexpensive Stock Mechs - and giving PGI some actual micro-transaction options. They *can* monetize it without affecting their main game.
11
Koniving, on 12 May 2014 - 06:50 PM, said:
