464 replies to this topic

[FallenSeraphim]

WaddeHaddeDudeda, on 27 May 2013 - 11:58 AM, said:

Assuming you would run the D with 4 ML + 2 SSRM 2s in a competitive game (pre BAP buff - no experience with the current situation) this would mean that your Jenner D and lets say Raven 3L would face off against 2 x Raven 3L ('cuz that was and probably still is THE light to go in competitive games).
Thanks to ECM superiority not only the Jenner D could not fire its SSRMs, even its teammate (the 3L) would be affected in a bad way.
While your lights lose a significant amount of firepower they simply getting roflstomped, unless they get help by their teammates...which may lead to other big disadvantages for the rest of the team.
As for the comment that beginners should buy Mechs that suit their playstyle: I agree!
But how do they KNOW what their playstyle is and what Mechs are good for them?
Odds are high that they're buying trash and then are forced to sell it again, burning through their Cbills rather quickly

Pre-BAP I totally agree - I would get my butt kicked running in my Jenner-D/K every time I ran into a 3L. But now with BAP I can easily tear apart 3Ls I come across. (I actually run 2xSL, 2xML, 2xSSRM2 - allows me to fire constantly without overheating on all maps). But the "competitiveness" of my build can't be taken into account in an isolated incident - who am I up against, who are my teammates, what equipment is my opponent carrying?

It's fundamentally flawed to rank mechs in a linear tier system when you take into account every variable, permutation and combination (which you can't). Of course, the variants that are perceived to be more effective will become more common. But what new players need is information as to why those variants are better (or worse) than it's siblings.

I'm all for prudent spending - but it should be fully informed, pros/cons based! It's kind of like buying a car: you have an idea of what kind of driver you are, what you want in a car that fits your needs, and you get to choose the colour! .No one goes into a dealorship and asks, "I would like to buy a Tier 1 Light car because this list says it's the best!" Well, that's not true...lol

I'm all up for shortlists and optimized builds. I find this page much more useful since it gives rational to why these builds/variants are useful/less useful as well as some of reasoning they're favoured (or not). And the builds come from Run Hot or Die for those who care about the "competitive" nature of the builds.

[LordBraxton]

holy arrogance batman

I don't care how good you are

or what 'prestigious' online club you are part of

some of the responses in this thread....

[Victor Morson]

My only comment is this tier ranking doesn't really apply to Conquest; I think some of the Third Tier equipment does in fact go up to First Tier in that game mode, in particular if you play with tonnage. In particular, the Cicadas becomes a lot more effective as well as otherwise written off variants like the Treb 3C.

Otherwise I'd say it's very accurate for assault games.

Merchant, on 28 May 2013 - 06:50 PM, said:

This is why a tier list doesn't work.

Different people have different playstyles.
Some like Ballistic, some Energy, others Missiles, still others some combination of the three.
Some players like to move fast, others slow.
Some players love to brawl, others snipe, still others support though weapons, intelligence or command.

Better to do a list describing what each Mech variant is best suited for.
Want lots of lasers? Pick one of these (insert Mechs using a lot of Energy).
Like fast movers? Try one of these (insert fast Mechs).
Want to take command? Here are some of the better Mechs to Command with (insert Mechs a Commander can use best without harming the team's ability to function).

Here's the thing.. they need to make those play styles viable before we can recommend them.

If a newbie asked me which 'mech can run lots of LRMs, I'd tell them not to run LRMs. That makes me sad.

Edited by Victor Morson, 30 May 2013 - 09:03 PM.

[Joseph Mallan]

IceSerpent, on 29 May 2013 - 12:00 PM, said:

My point is that AC20 should not even be comparable to either PPC or LL - it's supposed to cover an entirely separate range. Yet we have what we have and people wonder why AC10 is so unpopular...

The AC10 is a solid hard hitting Ballistic weapon. I love it on my Centurion-D

Psikez, on 29 May 2013 - 02:22 PM, said:

Do you have any reasoning?

The reasoning is that it is a subjective list, based on the creator's observations and play style.though it is a good suggestion unless a group of players test the crap out of the chassis, loads an other characteristics, it is not gospel.

[IceSerpent]

Joseph Mallan, on 31 May 2013 - 08:08 AM, said:

The AC10 is a solid hard hitting Ballistic weapon. I love it on my Centurion-D

"Solid hard hitting" is not much of a description - if you can compare AC10 to AC20 and UAC5, and come up with a scenario where it's beneficial to center the build around AC10, please share it.

[Joseph Mallan]

IceSerpent, on 31 May 2013 - 08:34 AM, said:

"Solid hard hitting" is not much of a description - if you can compare AC10 to AC20 and UAC5, and come up with a scenario where it's beneficial to center the build around AC10, please share it.

I do not favor the Ultra as it jams to much, and you cannot put an AC20 in any Centurion (but one). There are times when the best is the average. One of my best W/L K/D Mechs was a Jager with 2 AC10s and 4 Mediums.

[Psikez]

Joseph Mallan, on 31 May 2013 - 08:08 AM, said:

The reasoning is that it is a subjective list, based on the creator's observations and play style.though it is a good suggestion unless a group of players test the crap out of the chassis, loads an other characteristics, it is not gospel.

Don't recall asking you that question.

[Koniving]

Overall, I think it'd be easier to get positive feedback by rephrasing the definition of the list.

Tier 1, Beginner mechs.
Tier 2, Modest (or some other mid point) mechs.
Tier 3, Challenging mechs.

Just an example.

[Cubivorre]

Psikez, on 31 May 2013 - 04:26 PM, said:

Don't recall asking you that question.

He provided a reasonable and non-threatening answer - No reason to get all 'internet tough guy' about it. It's a forum board, people post in response to other posts. That's how this works.

[MavRCK]

Victor Morson, on 30 May 2013 - 09:04 PM, said:

My only comment is this tier ranking doesn't really apply to Conquest; I think some of the Third Tier equipment does in fact go up to First Tier in that game mode, in particular if you play with tonnage. In particular, the Cicadas becomes a lot more effective as well as otherwise written off variants like the Treb 3C.

Otherwise I'd say it's very accurate for assault games.



Here's the thing.. they need to make those play styles viable before we can recommend them.

If a newbie asked me which 'mech can run lots of LRMs, I'd tell them not to run LRMs. That makes me sad.

Both good points...

I think it's pretty close for Conquest as I farm cbills in that mode too but yeah, it's hard to be perfect for two types of game modes... but then... competition 8s is assault by default...

The answers are in the details so to speak! Ha

You know, after a week with LRMs, I'm not totally enthralled with them.. in team or solo queue play.... We shall see....!!!


Finally, this list is gospel. The pope regularly calls me for advice on giving mass. Obama and I shoot hoops. Steve Aoki stole my rifts, but it's cool 'cause his sister digs me. <3 <3 <3


Final point... last night I got to play with this:




Adding to my experience driving various race cars, karts, street cars of all makes and varieties... I can tell you the pros and cons of BMW, Ferraris, Porsches, VWs, Fords, Subarus, different karts, etc etc.. Like this list of mechs, there are certain strengths and weaknesses of different cars - especially if they are performance-oriented, race-built from the ground up, or adapted street cars etc etc.. They change with modifications to their suspension, tires, wheels, etc etc etc...

So yes, like cars, there can be a list of good to bad mechs... but it subjective and my take.

But it's gospel so turn off your brains and don't think... just accept whatever I say on blind faith!

Donations accepted...

<3



( cough cough /sarcasm off! )

Good luck, have fun! (Especially fun - it's the weekend damnit!!)

Edited by MavRCK, 01 June 2013 - 12:10 PM.

[MavRCK]

On a more serious note:

If there anything specific people would like an in-depth video explanation, please let me know and I will do Q&A in the video.

This may sound strange, even bizarre or crazy, but talking to oneself about one's own ideas and thoughts is "difficult".



Mav

-My psychiatrist said I was "cured".

[Thoman Coston]

As a casual player I find it extremely helpful of both you and Wade for posting this kind of list. Thank you !

I simply don't have the time to grind all mechs. I am also buying mechs using MC (Cbill broke), so I get a bit annoyed when a mech performs less well than expected after spending real money on it. Lucky out of all the mechs I have bought in the past only two were tier3 mechs and I am not surprised to see that those two were listed in tier3.
I have used this list for my latest purchase (Jaeger6S), was not sure whether it was worthwhile to buy a jaeger before.
Thanks.

[Aurrous]

So if i got the collectors trophy on forza 4 and gold metals on all the tracks, i should be able to get a piloting perk for lights on this game???

Would Need for speed, or Split second be a better Mech Trainer ??

Edited by Aurrous, 02 June 2013 - 09:46 AM.

[MavRCK]

Tier list update is delayed because I am in Vancouver, enjoying the sun, being a paparazzi outside PGI offices and ignoring the patch update! Joke! I have neither a mic nor a webcam to stream at the moment, so the tier list will be updated once I am back in Montreal and have some time free from work.

GL HF HH!

.
..
...

Of course, inquiring minds want to know... Does the Dragon have competition for bottom of the tier list with the recently-announced Quickdraw!?

60 tons... Ballistic hardpoints, energy hardpoints, and 1 - one - 1 missile hardpoint... and.. JUMP JETS...

I think it's fair to say the Dragon has tier 3 covered for some time to come...

That's my prediction! We shall see!

<3

Edited by MavRCK, 04 June 2013 - 05:44 PM.

[scJazz]

I was wondering if the recent patch will shake things up in your Tiers

[MavRCK]

scJazz, on 04 June 2013 - 05:49 PM, said:

I was wondering if the recent patch will shake things up in your Tiers

It has... but this second week is showing that things aren't as greatly affected as much as one would think. BAP has made the Jenner F and D extremely strong again!

I still have a migraine from working on things...!

Overall, I would say that the LRM changes has change more the way players behave rather than the mechs players would prefer to have on their team!


I'll be back soon!

[scJazz]

MavRCK, on 04 June 2013 - 06:46 PM, said:

It has... but this second week is showing that things aren't as greatly affected as much as one would think. BAP has made the Jenner F and D extremely strong again!

I still have a migraine from working on things...!

Overall, I would say that the LRM changes has change more the way players behave rather than the mechs players would prefer to have on their team!


I'll be back soon!

Seriously? Dude you fail on comedy! I meant the JJ Shake!

Shake things up? Get it?

*goes off and sulks*

[MavRCK]

Back tomorrow .. will update this weekend.

Having too much LOLs on reddit...

Yes, KaoS is / was 39-0.

More stuff from reddit:

Quote

[–]CyberDagger 3 points 2 days ago[/color]


[indent]
Being good at the game does not in any way lend more weight to their opinions. [/indent]


Oh, but it does. As a game dev, outside of your own QA teams, the best players of the game have the most valuable feedback to give. They may not be the majority of the player base, but they are the ones who push the games to its limits, and as such they are the ones who will discover its problems first. You ignore the problems that the great players discover, and the rest of the players will find out, only later. And when that happens, you'll wish you had listened.
And even if they aren't the majority, they're the ones who invest the most in the game. And I'm not talking about buying stuff here, they bring money in a less direct way, although they are also likely to invest their own money. You make a well balanced game, and your competitive players will give you free publicity. They run the streams, they run tournaments, they make it so your game is seen by a lot of people.
What these people want is a balanced and engaging game. And you should give them that. A game should be balanced around the highest skill tiers, even at the expense of some imbalances at the lower skill tiers. The highest skill players are the ones to whom balance is most important, and I already talked about how valuable an asset they are. And besides, having a slight imbalance at lower skill levels can actually be healthy for the game. It allows less skilled players to have some competitive edge, and as such makes them less likely to rage quit the game after being stomped by more skilled players one too many times. (The noob tube from Call of Duty is a good example of this.)

Edited by MavRCK, 10 June 2013 - 12:18 AM.

[MavRCK]

Updated with more controversy and ice cream!

Less unpredictability please PGI (or Cartman will steal your girlfriend again!)!



Nerf PPCs through Jump Jet Shake, Quick Draw Release and Mech Bay MC Cost Increase!!!!!

<3 <3 <3

GL HF!


Issues for PGI to fix:

1. Seismic Sensor - get rid of it
2. PPC - increase heat by 2.5%, Make it 7 dmg center, 3 dmg splash
3. JJ - get rid of the shake - WTF!?!?!? JJ's need to accelerate faster.
4. SRM - increase damage
5. Get rid of any RNG factor
6. Fix the netcode for low ping people
7. LRM spread
8. SRM2 has the worst spread variation ...
9. Host state rewind -- screwing over low ping players who get hit 5 secs later...
10. terrain clipping - lights get stuck on the side of mountains, assaults trip on anything and everything!

Edited by MavRCK, 11 June 2013 - 01:08 PM.

[Shiro Matsumoto]

This should not be under "Newbie help"... more under "Elitists personal opinions"...