196 replies to this topic

[CGB Behemoth]

Before nerf i have 1 million CB in 3-5 battles with premtime & heromech. 4-6 matches without bonuses.
Now it takes about 4-6 rounds in first case & 6-8 in second.
With my playtime i have 2-2,5 millions each day. It means i can buy Atlos mech in maximum 4 days.
Guys don't make me laught! Go and try buying IS-7 in WoT in four days!

Sure we have some players that can't make more than 50k CB from match (speedcappers usually).
What can i say?
GO & FIGHT MECHWARRIORS!
Play with builds. Find your style. Be of a help to team. Get many CB.

P.S. I had to buy 25 hangar slots lately - played 4 days from dusk till down.
P.P.S. Sorry for my bad English.

[Alienfreak]

Behemothk, on 18 August 2013 - 04:16 AM, said:

Before nerf i have 1 million CB in 3-5 battles with premtime & heromech. 4-6 matches without bonuses.
Now it takes about 4-6 rounds in first case & 6-8 in second.
With my playtime i have 2-2,5 millions each day. It means i can buy Atlos mech in maximum 4 days.
Guys don't make me laught! Go and try buying IS-7 in WoT in four days!

Sure we have some players that can't make more than 50k CB from match (speedcappers usually).
What can i say?
GO & FIGHT MECHWARRIORS!
Play with builds. Find your style. Be of a help to team. Get many CB.

P.S. I had to buy 25 hangar slots lately - played 4 days from dusk till down.
P.P.S. Sorry for my bad English.

Behemothk, on 18 August 2013 - 04:16 AM, said:

Before nerf i have 1 million CB in 3-5 battles with premtime & heromech. 4-6 matches without bonuses.
Now it takes about 4-6 rounds in first case & 6-8 in second.
With my playtime i have 2-2,5 millions each day. It means i can buy Atlos mech in maximum 4 days.
Guys don't make me laught! Go and try buying IS-7 in WoT in four days!

Sure we have some players that can't make more than 50k CB from match (speedcappers usually).
What can i say?
GO & FIGHT MECHWARRIORS!
Play with builds. Find your style. Be of a help to team. Get many CB.

P.S. I had to buy 25 hangar slots lately - played 4 days from dusk till down.
P.P.S. Sorry for my bad English.

So the difference between a hero mech & premium time is 1/3 to 1/5 according to you? Yet tthe difference is 80%.

Without bonuses you will need around 8-10 matches to get one million. To get an Atlas (with mandatory DHS) we need about 12 millon cbills. Averaging at 9 matches per million we end up at 108 matches. Averaging a game's time at 15 minutes (10 minutes of play plus 5 minutes searching, loading and end screen) we end up with 27 hours of playtime for one variant of an Atlas WITHOUT any additional upgrades like new weapons, etc. pp.
So getting three necessary variants of an Atlas is 81 hours of playtime.

[White Bear 84]

In a good round could get 300k with premium. Now it is pretty much never above 150k. 50% cut hurts, do not want to grind and do not want to spend MC buying regular mechs/having to wait to get endo etc etc.

Time to be thrifty and use engines from other mechs and swap out the weapons from mechs i dont use..

NB. 25k for a loss? What a joke, you could pug with the worst team, lose every match and go away feeling like you just wasted your whole evening.

Edited by White Bear 84, 18 August 2013 - 05:17 PM.

[DeaconW]

White Bear 84, on 18 August 2013 - 05:15 PM, said:

What a joke, you could pug with the worst team, lose every match and go away feeling like you just wasted your whole evening.

You just described the last three days of my MWO playtime... But ELO is so "working as intended"...

[Alex Warden]

Wintersdark, on 11 August 2013 - 08:19 AM, said:

Looks like roughly 15-20%ish, but I'm not positive. I haven't seen anyone freaking out about it, but obviously people aren't happy - which is to be expected.

I know, as a casual player, it's pretty crappy. I do reasonably well, and almost always run premium time, but I only get a couple matches in per day. Even if I bought mechs with MC (I do, in fact), buying things like modules can take weeks of saving time.

premium + hero make it less obvious...i´d recommend you to play without both a couple of days, and you´ll FEEL it...

Edited by Alex Warden, 18 August 2013 - 07:40 PM.

[Kageru Ikazuchi]

OK - so shortly after Paul says that we were earning too much, a lull comes in the conversation, and I blurt out something about ...

How long will it take a new (no money, yet) player to lose interest?

I figure it's just about long enough for them to grind up the basic efficiencies on their first 'mech. At that point, the new player might have figured out that he needs three of them to unlock the good skills. Does he have enough C-BIlls to buy a new mech?

Now that I think about it, this metric is more about the C-Bill-to-XP ratio than it is C-Bills per game ... but I think it's probably germane.

[Booran]

It'll come together in the end, they're adjusting economics to test out the nature of it and gather telemetry for it. Back in CB they made crazy economy changes quite often and also wiped all stats with that and nobody cried...

[Mister Blastman]

GODzillaGSPB, on 11 August 2013 - 08:28 AM, said:

Was getting between 200 and 250k before. Now it's below 150k.



Yes. So? PGI needs payment for this game to survive. And that's fair. But it needs incentive to pay...that's all I'm saying.

GODzillaGSPB, on 11 August 2013 - 08:28 AM, said:

Was getting between 200 and 250k before. Now it's below 150k.



Yes. So? PGI needs payment for this game to survive. And that's fair. But it needs incentive to pay...that's all I'm saying.

Exactly. If balance weren't so messed up, they were making sweeping changes and pumping out content like map after map rather than silly crap like cockpit items and more hero mechs... well, then I'd have a shiny new Project Phoenix package right now. They have to earn my money, not try and bludgeon it out of us.

[Mister Blastman]

Alex Warden, on 18 August 2013 - 07:40 PM, said:

premium + hero make it less obvious...i´d recommend you to play without both a couple of days, and you´ll FEEL it...

This. It is painful right now how little we earn even when having amazing games. I'm sitting on a pile of money but I dread spending it knowing it'll take so long to recoup.

[Tombstoner]

if i play my role correctly i dont get rewarded much (scout/tag). some matches i earn 25k for a loss. adding in double xp was nice but the game rewards system promoted running to contact for max damage. if your not part of the mob you loose out in money and xp. only with my 30% mc founders / hero front line DD damage builds can i make 125k per win.

I suck it up and play paying no note to the cash i earn but this weekend was painfull. 6-8 hours and i got 500k. not even close to getting DSH for my 3rd commando.

[Accursed Richards]

Booran, on 18 August 2013 - 11:48 PM, said:

It'll come together in the end, they're adjusting economics to test out the nature of it and gather telemetry for it. Back in CB they made crazy economy changes quite often and also wiped all stats with that and nobody cried...

Because back then, it was expected some stuff would be broken, and that what we had was only a placeholder. Now, there's a real danger this is going to go live.

[Lunatic_Asylum]

Paul did the right thing, and he was correct in saying that the reward were too high. Stop complaining about something harder or requiring more effort. This is getting too obtuse.

[Rodrigo Martinez]

Most annoying for me thing is not the nerf of income, but the way of earning c-bills. If I brawl and destroy 2-3 mechs solo I have less than I'm piloting a spider to do crazy rounds on the whole map because prolly i'll touch almost everyone with my ER large laser (finally I found an ideal mech for this weapon). The difference of payment for defeat and victory for me is very little now because usually I do same amount of damage if I haven't killed in first minutes, it's a good side of this economic change. But the need to _touch_ every enemy mech with a weapon without dealing of actual damage to earn large amount of c-bill - it's an absurd nerf of brawl and dueling style of play.

[Onmyoudo]

lunticasylum, on 19 August 2013 - 11:07 PM, said:

Paul did the right thing, and he was correct in saying that the reward were too high. Stop complaining about something harder or requiring more effort. This is getting too obtuse.

He didn't, and he wasn't. It's not harder and it doesn't require more effort - just a lot more time and boredom with their ****** game modes and no incentives.

[HeavyRain]

I just finished a match where i was running up and down, killing people left and right, 5 kills, 3 assists and at the end (10 minutes later) I get rewarded with the princely sum of 124k. On the previous match I spent half of it dealing with a sandwich, I made 108k just by casually plinking people with one large laser while my teammates did the all the heavy lifting. zero kills, 6 assists.
Maybe the game is being adjusted for the la-z-boy warrior.

[Wyest]

lunticasylum, on 19 August 2013 - 11:07 PM, said:

Paul did the right thing, and he was correct in saying that the reward were too high. Stop complaining about something harder or requiring more effort. This is getting too obtuse.

Sure he did, if he likes people not getting past their first mech.

Too much grind is bad and turns off new players. A month stuck in a single mech to progress? That's boring. Do you like boring? Most people I know don't. If they can't punch that "I feel good" button and get new shinies more than once a month, they won't play long, and that means they won't buy anything either.

Kageru Ikazuchi, on 18 August 2013 - 08:48 PM, said:

How long will it take a new (no money, yet) player to lose interest?

I figure it's just about long enough for them to grind up the basic efficiencies on their first 'mech. At that point, the new player might have figured out that he needs three of them to unlock the good skills. Does he have enough C-BIlls to buy a new mech?

From my experience in the two people who I've convinced to try it so far? Not even that long.

Getting past the trial mechs is hard enough. Those still blow my mind. Then they'll buy something and they'll still be rolled almost every match because they can't afford anything but stock weapon configs, dont have DHS, don't have Endo, can't change engine for about another 40 matches, bought the wrong gun because well, LBX's used to be awesome in MW3/4...

[Master Q]

soapyfrog, on 11 August 2013 - 08:14 AM, said:

How much were earnings nerfed by? I haven't noticed a huge difference... I guesstimate good win might net me 165k instead of 200k. Are people really freaking out about that?

Multiply by the number of games per week.

Divide by the cost to "outfit" a 'Mech to the levels of efficiency - custom loadout, possibly XL engine (especially on Lights almost mandatory), 1.5mil DHS tax, and 6 mil per module.

Assume you played 20 games per week: before you earned ~4mil per week. Now you earn ~3.3mil per week. Multiply by 4 weeks per month.

They just shaved off 2.8 mil per month. And are threatening to reimplement Repair/Rearm costs without any rebalance.

Of course, my C-bills per match are sitting at 130k, not 165k. I'm willing to bet YOU are either using premium time or a Hero Mech to reach those numbers and grinding C-bills in a Hero Mech (though I own several) is not what I'm trying to do right now, I'm trying to level skills in some other chassis and that process is significantly - hell, ABSURDLY - slowed down by the new nerfs.

So hell yes, people are upset about that. There are precisely two ways to play now. One, only get 1-2 Hero mechs and just grind-grind-grind for Cbills, wasting a ton of earned XP that you can't even convert to GXP and spend on other chassis without buying them. Or two, dump buttloads of cash on Paul.

As long as Paul is that disdainful of the player base, I'm not going with the second option and I'm feeling more cheated daily by the bait-and-switch operation they are running that I've paid for so far.

Mister Blastman, on 19 August 2013 - 05:58 AM, said:

They have to earn my money, not try and bludgeon it out of us.

THIS. THIS. A THOUSAND TIMES THIS.

SOMEONE PRINT THIS AND SHOVE IT IN PAUL'S SMUG FACE TILL HE GETS IT.

Edited by Master Q, 20 August 2013 - 04:28 AM.

[BulletChief]

i'm getting 120 to 150k without a founders mech, so that's really okay.

don't forget that PLAYING the game is actually the fun part and not unlocking everything as fast as possible...

Edited by BulletChief, 20 August 2013 - 04:27 AM.

[DeaconW]

Tombstoner, on 19 August 2013 - 06:16 AM, said:

if i play my role correctly i dont get rewarded much (scout/tag). some matches i earn 25k for a loss. adding in double xp was nice but the game rewards system promoted running to contact for max damage. if your not part of the mob you loose out in money and xp. only with my 30% mc founders / hero front line DD damage builds can i make 125k per win.

I suck it up and play paying no note to the cash i earn but this weekend was painfull. 6-8 hours and i got 500k. not even close to getting DSH for my 3rd commando.

This is definitely a problem that needs addressing...giving proper earnings for scouts doing their job.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

The trouble is that for a lot of people now, playing isn't fun. Most mechs are not easy to use as standard and don't perform well until elited. It does become a "grind" especially if you only have a little time to play.
For those not sitting on a mountain of C-bills, spare engines, weapons etc it can be a literal pain.
Just think what its going to be like with the Phoenix package if you have 12 (15?) new mechs to outfit and progress.