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Ppc Are Not A Problem


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#61 Braggart

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 01:12 PM

View PostJoseph Mallan, on 14 August 2013 - 01:00 PM, said:

There is nothing wrong with 2 PPC and a Gauss. Except it is effective at its mission. Putting enemy Mechs down. 35 points is not a lot of damage.


35 is alot of damage. give me other combos of weapons that will deal all that damage into 1 single location, and is very heat effective at the same time. 35 damage is enough to take all the side torso armor off a medium mech in a single volley.

Mediums are not suppose to be that fragile. Mediums were actually pretty durable in TT. But because of doubled armor, mediums are a joke, and heavies and assaults are swimming in tons of armor, and firepower to make any more small than them toast in a volley or 2.

Edited by Braggart, 14 August 2013 - 01:14 PM.


#62 Mystere

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 01:32 PM

View PostMrZakalwe, on 14 August 2013 - 03:13 AM, said:

So are you honestly arguing that nothing should be changed and that everything is perfect and that there are no weapon imbalances in this game at all?


The point is that the PPC (as well as the gauss rifle) is not the problem. Rather, the problem is the pinpoint damage inflicted by multiple weapons on the same point at (almost) the same time.

#63 Corvus Antaka

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 01:33 PM

View PostMrZakalwe, on 14 August 2013 - 02:19 AM, said:

I'm a big PPC user and they currently do too much, too well.
1) Excellent pinpoint damage.
2) Ammoless.
3) Accurate at long range even against moving targets.
4) Currently seem to be bugged so they do high damage at close range.
5) Do not require you to stare at people or stay out of cover long.
6) Disrupt ECM.
7) Do not weigh much.
8) Only produce slightly more heat than several inferior laser alternatives.

If they slowed down projectile speeds to make them less lethal against fast targets and sorted out the minimum range damage drop off there wouldn't be an issue with PPCs.


+1

a little more heat, a little slower projectile.

#64 KharnZor

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 01:36 PM

View PostNineTails, on 14 August 2013 - 12:49 PM, said:


By extension, you're saying that Gauss x2 PPC builds aren't a problem? Because they are exactly the problem. And there's very little boat-y about Gauss PPC PPC.

Gauss +2ppc builds are only a problem if you allow yourself to be hit by them.

#65 Braggart

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 01:38 PM

View PostKharnZor, on 14 August 2013 - 01:36 PM, said:

Gauss +2ppc builds are only a problem if you allow yourself to be hit by them.


oh. Well the interesting thing about this game is that other than missiles. You have to have line of sight. If I can see you, you can see me.

Your idea of dont get shot is basically saying you arent allowed to shoot back.

#66 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 01:48 PM

View PostBraggart, on 14 August 2013 - 01:12 PM, said:


35 is alot of damage. give me other combos of weapons that will deal all that damage into 1 single location, and is very heat effective at the same time. 35 damage is enough to take all the side torso armor off a medium mech in a single volley.

Mediums are not suppose to be that fragile. Mediums were actually pretty durable in TT. But because of doubled armor, mediums are a joke, and heavies and assaults are swimming in tons of armor, and firepower to make any more small than them toast in a volley or 2.
THIS IS YOUR PROBLEM, not 35 points of damage. I deliver 62 damage with my D-DC and not one complaint! Why?
SRMs don't converge. My Victor 54 Damage per Alpha, No complaints. Convergence of the damage not the total. On TT a single AC20 could do the same as our 35. 35 points will not remove the 40 points of armor of a Hunchback in one salvo. But it will strip a Blackjack of its STOCK 30 armor.

I am sorry that some people want the light half of the board to be tough but you know what? They aren't. Sorry that is a cold hard fact. Clanners will be coming with builds that can Alpha you with 6 Medium lasers at Large laser range for 42 points of pin point damage. The Warhawk Prime can fire 2 ERPPCs to hit you with 30 pin point damage Or ignoring the heat, 60 pinpoint damage. 35 points is NOTHING, when you know what is coming!!!

#67 Fabe

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 01:53 PM

View PostTrauglodyte, on 14 August 2013 - 07:21 AM, said:

PEEFSmash is right - ELO should be shown on this board.

Because E-Peen size solves everything .

#68 Coralld

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 01:54 PM

View PostMystere, on 14 August 2013 - 01:32 PM, said:


The point is that the PPC (as well as the gauss rifle) is not the problem. Rather, the problem is the pinpoint damage inflicted by multiple weapons on the same point at (almost) the same time.

Wrong, pinpoint damage isant the problem, instant convergence is the problem. If you removed pinpoint convergence then DoT weapons like lasers would be screwed because not only is it hard to keep lasers on one location with out them raking over the enemy mech like we have now but you would then have multiple points raking over the enemy mech making then even more less effective and out classed by front load weapons then they already are. You would be just be enforcing the meta even more so. So what if that PPC now doesn't always land where you want it to, it still does its full damage to that location where DoT weapons are now all over the place.

View PostKharnZor, on 14 August 2013 - 01:36 PM, said:

Gauss +2ppc builds are only a problem if you allow yourself to be hit by them.

So every one should just sit in an corner and hide? If you get any more bright ideas like this little gem, do us all a favor and keep it to your self for we lowly individuals are not worthy of your brand of "genius."

#69 SJ Osiris

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 02:03 PM

A PPC is like the anti mech weapon. Just don't take a mech next time.

#70 Mystere

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 02:05 PM

View PostCoralld, on 14 August 2013 - 01:54 PM, said:

Wrong, pinpoint damage isant the problem, instant convergence is the problem.


Instant convergence without pinpoint damage (e.g. cone of fire) will not be an issue (not that I am suggesting COF). The problem is:

damage inflicted by [1]multiple weapons [2]on the same point [3]at the same time



Prevent [1], [2], and/or [3] from happening and all the crying on this issue will suddenly stop. Of course, it will be replaced by whining of the opposite kind. :(

#71 neviu

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 02:05 PM

Let the redacting begin.

#72 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 02:10 PM

View PostCoralld, on 14 August 2013 - 01:54 PM, said:

Wrong, pinpoint damage isant the problem, instant convergence is the problem. If you removed pinpoint convergence then DoT weapons like lasers would be screwed because not only is it hard to keep lasers on one location with out them raking over the enemy mech like we have now but you would then have multiple points raking over the enemy mech making then even more less effective and out classed by front load weapons then they already are. You would be just be enforcing the meta even more so. So what if that PPC now doesn't always land where you want it to, it still does its full damage to that location where DoT weapons are now all over the place.

So every one should just sit in an corner and hide? If you get any more bright ideas like this little gem, do us all a favor and keep it to your self for we lowly individuals are not worthy of your brand of "genius."

I mean this in the kindest way, If you don't want to die, don't play combat games.

#73 Psikez

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 02:15 PM

gg OP gg :(

#74 Coralld

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 02:16 PM

View PostJoseph Mallan, on 14 August 2013 - 02:10 PM, said:

I mean this in the kindest way, If you don't want to die, don't play combat games.

I mean this in the kindest of ways, present a solution, an idea, anything, that doesn't suck.

I have no problem in being killed, but when its by the same exact loud that 90% of people are running that allows you to do everything from snipe to brawl over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over again. That tends to be a sign that there is a problem.

Edited by Coralld, 14 August 2013 - 02:21 PM.


#75 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 02:24 PM

Provide a small CoF when weapons are Alphaed. If we really need to be saved from 35 points of damage, which we don't. Personally I don't have any problem being shot with that much damage, even in my Jenner (S). Cause I know the Clans can and will be bringing more to bear than what we are now.

#76 Corvus Antaka

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 02:33 PM

comp play is almost purely pinpoint gauss ppc. there is a reason for this, quite obviously because brawlers and other loadouts cannot compete effectively, and this is an issue that needs further tweaking.

#77 Lyoto Machida

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 02:38 PM

Never run a 6 PPC Stalker before but I ran a 6 LL one. I have no issues with people running perceived "cheese" builds BUT...

Straight from Sarna (ERPPC):

Heat = 15
Damage = 10 (IS) / 15 (Clan)

Fix the PPC heat...

Fix PPC heat...

Fix PPC heat...

Fix PPC heat...



#78 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 02:39 PM

But you can brawl with Gauss an (ER)PPC. The thinking is perfectly legit. Use BFGs to kill the enemy quickly and efficiently. After we get rid of 2 PPC and a Gauss it will be PPC and a Gauss! Nope, Not having it. Specially when 42 point medium laser Alphas are coming.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 14 August 2013 - 02:39 PM.


#79 Coralld

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 02:42 PM

View PostJoseph Mallan, on 14 August 2013 - 02:24 PM, said:

Provide a small CoF when weapons are Alphaed. If we really need to be saved from 35 points of damage, which we don't. Personally I don't have any problem being shot with that much damage, even in my Jenner (S). Cause I know the Clans can and will be bringing more to bear than what we are now.

There is a simple way to balance the 2xPPC + Gauss, and that is to link Gauss with PPCs. Sense the way the weapon stacking takes the highest penalty of what ever guns are fired, make it so the Gauss, when combined with 2x PPCs, equal to that of a 2x AC20s alpha which have a total heat of 36. Thus allowing you to snipe with your 35 alpha but makes brawling far more difficult. Sure there would be ways around this by either chain firing or simply fire your 2x PPCs and then the Gauss, but that means your exposed longer and drawing out your 35 points of damage to said location.

As for the Clans. make it so that you can only fire 1 CLERPPC safely with out incurring the heat penalty which will force Clanners to chain fire and give the IS an advantage when it comes to alphas.

Now I know some don't like this idea and my heat penalties for linking PPCs and Gauss together can be adjusted, but given the current game mechanics is the easiest way to make the 2x PPC + Gauss not be the be all end all weapon combo. It also address on a way to balance the clans given the current weapon stacking penalties. Make no mistake, I am not a big fan of the weapon stacking penalties but this is what we have to work with as PGI are not going to change their mind any time soon.

Edited by Coralld, 14 August 2013 - 02:46 PM.


#80 Randalf Yorgen

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 02:42 PM

how about those 2xGauss 1x PPC Jagers out there, how do you feel about those builds?





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