233 replies to this topic

[Gremlich Johns]

I think they should just put the timeline back to 3025 and take 2 years to learn how to properly code a game. THEN, they can bring the Clans in as August 3049.

[ZnSeventeen]

fenji, on 18 August 2013 - 01:12 AM, said:

Can everyone please stop calling the Timber Wolf a Mad Cat... The Mad Cat name was just because the IS targetting software couldn't recognize the Timber Wolf and would switch back and forth between a Marauder and a Catapult when it was struggling to name it. It is a Timber Wolf, not an IS slang name you Solahma Innies came up with.

Long live the clans!

EDIT: I will be severly dissapointed if they screw up again and call it a Mad Cat in MWO. It has always bothered me.

Whoa, slow down little fella.
Those games were made from an inner sphere perspective, IS pilots call them Mad Cats. If you play as a clan, they are called Timberwolves.
Second, that bugs you so much and you didn't even mention the others? Daishi = Dire Wolf, Gladiator = Executioner, Masakari = Warhawk, Man O' War = Gargoyle, you get the picture.

Anyways, Clan weapons and equipment will have to be OP to work out I expect, but perhaps restrictions of other sorts will be in place? I can think of a few, no indirect fire, fewer numbers, no artillery or other support of any kind, having to attack targets with static defenses, lower drop weight, you get the picture.

[Gremlich Johns]

You all do realize that the MW:O version of the clans are gonna be like Nu-Metal - Neutered Metal.

The Clans will not be the Clans from BT or anything accurately portrayed as canon.

Leave now. Find something else to play. Like MW:LL.

[CyclonerM]

Gremlich Johns, on 10 September 2013 - 07:10 PM, said:

Leave now. Find something else to play. Like MW:LL.

I already do.

[Ursus_Spiritus]

If I could put 4 Clan ER Meds on my Cicada.....yum!!!!! ;-)
Even better, a 40 ton Clan equivalent of speed (144KPH presently) / armor / weapons / heat management....

28 pts of damage, 20 heat 12-14 DBL heat sinks....24-28 Heat dissipation...

Yeah, I will take that!!

Heat??? What heat?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

"A hunting light mechs I go, hi ho hi ho a hunting light mechs I will go!!!"

Edited by 8100d 5p4tt3r, 19 September 2013 - 05:37 AM.

[KnightedChaos]

Ok, just like to point out with clan XL engines only have 2 crit slots in either torso in the TT meaning they could run an XL and loose a side torso and still survive unlike any IS mech with an XL which is a huge durability boost as it is basically the risks of running a standard engine with all the benefits of an XL.

On top of things like the Clan LRM 20 having no min range and weighing only 5 tons.

The way clans are presented in the TT will be very difficult to balance in the MW:O world, one thing they could do is uneven teams, i.e. 3 IS lance(12 mechs) vs. 3 Clan lance(9 Mechs)

[Nehkrosis]

We would need the following balancing issues to be sorted; Numbers, Weapon stats, and Ques.

1) it needs to be an IS advatage in terms of numbers.

3 Lances vs 2 Stars.

2) If the numbers remain the same, they likewise have to be balanced toward the way IS weapons currently work.
the Clan ER LL has to be twice as hot, (atleast) as its IS counter-part.
LB Ballistics have to be able to crit the same as the IS LBX does.
Also, Clan weapons have to suffer the same heat penalties as their IS counter-parts.
Coupled with the already large heat coming from ClanTech, this might be the main balancing feature.

3) if, ultimately, the idea of going up against base-superior mechs, with only numbers on your side, is too daunting for new players, ques will have to be set up to keep the new palyer experience from being corrupted.

Final thought, IS mechs were never Min-Maxed the way they are in MWO.
so, thats something to consider...

Your Thoughts?

[Meldric Ward]

The balancing between Clans and IS (to counter the better Clan-Tech) is Zellbrigen and the way a Clan-Warrior would normally fight. That is a big disadvantage facing IS troops.

Unfortunatly, not many people care about this and the e-Sports aspect of a modern multiplayer game completly kills this argument, as anyone will build the builds that will win the game. Roleplay is secondary for 95% of all players, I'd guess (many would probably not know the background or what "the Clans" are in the Lore). If you could just stuff Clan-Weapons into an IS Urbi, anyone would do it but some very rare exceptions.

So, unfortunatly, the game needs to be balanced on chassis and weapons base. And that means, that very soon after introducing Clan-Tech, either anyone will be using it (regardless of faction) or it will simply be no difference.

That has been the case in all MW games and MWO will be no exception.

I remember endless discussions in various leagues on how to balance this and the end was (always): Anyone can use all tech to make it even. Ok for an e-Sports kind of approach but the killer for a planetary league, as the clans that play on high honorlevels will have severe disadvantages.

Edited by Meldric, 19 September 2013 - 06:20 AM.

[Nehkrosis]

Well, what about making it impossible for clans to grind by not giving them any resource/honour/kerensky's, if they fire on damaged mechs they didnt damage?

so, for example (and i posted this up before) I am in my Timberwolf.
I stumble across a damaged Hunchback, no one else is near-by, and so i finish off the hunchback. this is pretty "dis-honourable".
Consequently, i get a Dezgra negative penalty to my profile? perhaps my future mech choices are limited, or i get lowered in rank or some such.

However, lets say were in the same circumstance again, this time the hunchback has only received minor damage, over 20 seconds ago, and has still got all its working components/weapons. Thus, its technically not too dishonourable.
I slay the hunchback, and get a zellbriggen bonus. i get some kinda of rank increase, perhaps allowing me to purchase another variant of the timberwolf, or some other bonus.

[Meldric Ward]

I'd appreciate a system of implementing Dezgra-Points somehow. But I do not expect it to happen to be honest.

I expect that ANYONE will apply ALL weapons to ALL chassis. If not from the start then very soon after, because it will cause a shitstorm where the 3rd Person discussion will look like a childs birthday if not possible. Unfortunatly.

And as a consequence, you will not see too much clanlike behaviour in MWO. Although I hope I am wrong on that aspect.

Edited by Meldric, 19 September 2013 - 06:30 AM.

[Commander Kobold]

They've already said that they're going to be bringing the Clan's technology to be more in line with the IS so we may not even have mismatched drop team (the 10 v 12 bs) and as for people playing "clannish" that depends entirely on the player.

[Meldric Ward]

As I said: It will all be the same. And if Clanners play Zell without the weapons advantage, they'll loose. It is not up to the player if you'd like to have a chance of winning a game once in a while (and we know that everyone wants that!).

Clans will not have a meaning but being another faction. It is very likely that its just a bunch of new mechs and weapons for anyone, regardless of faction. It has always been like this. And, after all, that is the cheapest way of balancing. IS will use OmniTech and all are happy. I'd be surprised if anything else would happen. No need for balancing.

Sad but true.

Edited by Meldric, 19 September 2013 - 06:54 AM.

[Nehkrosis]

TBH, i think if they just end up making the tech the same as IS, its Game over.
This game will be in the ground within a few months.
if they take this long to implement clans, only for them to be basically skins, it'll be judgment day.

[Meldric Ward]

I hope for more than what I am afraid will happen. I am mostly an optimist. There might be something coming. But if you look at the weapons balancing within IS bounds and the 3PV discussion and all what happened in the past, I am just not stupid enough to BELIEVE there will be a sophisticated solution that meets my expectations... and if you once learned not to expect too much, live is happier...


Anyway, most players just don't care about the lore and roleplay (just jump in a PUG game and see for yourself) and thus it is not possible to count on people being sensible. There will be leagues and people will strip ClanTech from their Mechs once an IS weapon performs better in the field (a clanner would not do that, at least in the first years of the invasion).

Edited by Meldric, 19 September 2013 - 07:12 AM.

[Nehkrosis]

Dark Days ahead, my Friend, Dark days..

[Meldric Ward]

Not because of that. We will do our Clanlive inside our Clan and CW in MWO (however it looks like). There is no use in worrying about things you can't change.

[Lightfoot]

Clan UAC-20 12 tons, 8 criticals, 360 meters. This goes in the omni-pod, not the Ballistic slot, which has the first UAC-20 already in it.

On the Inner Sphere side is PGI says they are going to heavily nerf the Clans. Well, duh! They had to nerf an IS UAC-5 and PPC and the weak-at-close-range Gauss Rifle. I think the first time I ever used an IS UAC-5 for PvP was MWO. Compared to the other weapons in Battletech it's a trash weapon. So my concern is how will we ever even see the Clans if PGI is worriedly nerfing IS UAC-5's? I mean even a heavily nerfed version of Clan tech would blow a MWO mech away in one shot.

[TheSteelRhino]

Ahh more doom and gloom.

Get creative here peeps....

Maybe its not just swing the nerf hammer.....

So I think they must tweak clan tech or nobody will use IS tech. Everything has advantages and disadvantages.

Here are some ideas

Maybe clan er ppc has more range/dmg but are even hotter. Maybe uac20 has a higher jam rate than Uac. Say 5 second cooldown with 35% jam rate if you double tap?

Maybe when clan tech arrives inner sphere improved munitions arrive (precision, armour piercing etc). Also clanners have lighter lrm racks but IS could get Arrow IV.

Maybe clan er large and er med have longer cooldown, but sill have more heat and range.

Maybe clan endo and ferro use 10 crits each (vs tt 7) and IS 14 crits
How about the fact that omni mechs are stupid expensive? And maybe while you can change what is in the pods, engine changes, internal structure/armour thpe changes are not allowed. That is a TT rule (i think, it has been awhile) but i would be wasteful in clan eyes right? To rip out and replace it on a warriors whim? Thats why u HAVE omnis...so u can change weps

I think there are lots of things that can be done here, that do not completely nerf the clans but give advantages and disadvantages to their weapons.

Also lets not forget the clan system of honor. They shouldnt get paid. They should get Zelbriggen points. Some things get u more honor points. Ie you get more reward for using a smaller mech since the inner sphere is "inferior". Consider this similar to clan bidding system. If you bid low and when, you get greater prestige. If you bid high (equal tonnage, or drive an assault/heavy) your honor reward is lower as you rely more upon tech rather than your skills as a genetically engineered and superior being.....(ya surats)

Maybe the clans have to drop as binaries vs IS companies (10v12) which the clans would consider to be honorable and roughly equivalent.

Remember this game is an interpretation of Battletech. Not a copy...

[Ursus_Spiritus]

Clan philosophy and Clan tactics are ideal for fast, hard hitting engagements that are brief. Which is yet another reason Clan equipment is faster (especially ideal for Omni Mechs.) and lighter.

The is one major advantage and draw back to Clan Tech and tactics.

Add in Zellbrigen and you have a narrow corridor of operational ability that can be easily acclimated by the I.S. Tactics and tech.

There is a number of examples where the I.S. used delaying tactics, and gorilla tactics to undermine and or defeat the clans. Something that we whom have read the novels know and many who have not, are ignorant of.

Yes Clan Tech is "better" though it has it's flaw(s) if play against well. I.S. mechs tend to be cheaper and in more supply than Clan mechs.

If the clans drop in a star, the I.S. gets two lances? (5 vs 8) If Clan drops two Stars, I.S. gets a company? (10 vs 12)
Just something to consider.

Edited by 8100d 5p4tt3r, 19 September 2013 - 09:25 AM.

[TheSteelRhino]

Totally agree with concept of using long draw out and guerrilla type engagements v s clans

A few issues i see. Will players really act like clanners? There will have to be mechanics in game to force this.

Mapsize. Major issue. Some maps are not conducive to this type of fighting...again back to force composition here as well.

Maybe some drop mode could help this....

Its a shame we dont have an economy b/c that would help balance things. Inner sphere tech is CHEAP compared to clan.
It would cost IS pilots cbills to repair reload and cost a clan pilot Zellbriggen points for being wasteful if they take to much dmg or expend to much ammo