304 replies to this topic

[Red Dox]

Lightfoot, on 08 September 2013 - 10:18 PM, said:

Where are the other 50% of the Founders? Waiting for Community Warfare and a UI that enables the Battletech universe starmap. Also waiting for a chat ability while Mechlabbing for a known map and drop.

This.
I liked what I saw in the early Founding stages. I decided to invest for Gold founding. And months after that there were more and more game changes that kicked me in the balls. But on the horizon there was always the promise of Community Warfare and a trip back to the happy times I had with the Multiplayer Battletech3025 beta. I think my last real MWO match was in spring. And now there is talk about launch and still no CW? WTF?

At least I am not alone with my disapointment. Several real life friends (and founders too) feel exactly the same and if the 50% founder numbers are true, there are many many more of us out there. And there is a bitter lesson I learned about "founding" a game in the early stages and the trust I will give PGI in the future.

-----Red Dox

[GalaxyBluestar]

Wolfways, on 08 September 2013 - 11:24 AM, said:

this is why there's so much disgust, for those newbies who don't understand the rage. that there in the vid is an achievement of an ameture enthusiasts production. all those mechs and weapons and air/tank support too. PGI after years are still struggling with hitboxes etc. that's right the "professionals" fail with gameplay and content compared with a volunteer mod group's mechwarrior game. no wonder they were forced to stop developement, they'd stomp this game into the ground so easily if they got round to making their own mechlab.

after hearing all the ngng regurgitation of last years dreams i know this game is literally going nowhere but down. ***** me that IGP/pgi got the ip. i never thought there could be such an effort that'd make me love microsofts efforts. with the blocky mechs and laser cross haired graphics that mw4 had, but damn even with the games restrictions and faults {MWO: has already had months of poptart mania LOL} it offers so much more than MWO. i hope reviewers point out a true F2P game that lets you use all the vehicles in it with all the gameplay far in exceeding that of MWO... the true legend battletech experience. MWLL.

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 09 September 2013 - 01:14 AM.

[AlexEss]

GalaxyBluestar, on 09 September 2013 - 01:11 AM, said:

this is why there's so much disgust, for those newbies who don't understand the rage. that there in the vid is an achievement of an ameture enthusiasts production. all those mechs and weapons and air/tank support too. PGI after years are still struggling with hitboxes etc.

Last time i checked Crytek is a fairly substantial company and they did ALL the heavy lifting.. All the MW:LL team did was play with legos. Not saying they did not do a very good job, but it was not like they built a game from the ground up.

Any way i am as disappointed as anyone else at the lack of CW but if one had listened to that pod (in case it have not been brought up yet) we are told why they release now, it comes down to the game being stable enough to not really justify a BETA tag any more

[Booran]

I'm concerned about no new features for launch day, even the smallest addition for a launch celebration would be nice.
Though as have been said there is a big difference between this way of developing games compared to "old-school" retailware.
If this was a retail game the problem would be much much greater.
But still, concerned.

[Johnny Z]

3rd person view as it is = a kick between my mechs leg actuators. A great game, looking forward to it coming out of beta though.

[GalaxyBluestar]

AlexEss, on 09 September 2013 - 01:36 AM, said:

Last time i checked Crytek is a fairly substantial company and they did ALL the heavy lifting.. All the MW:LL team did was play with legos. Not saying they did not do a very good job, but it was not like they built a game from the ground up.

Any way i am as disappointed as anyone else at the lack of CW but if one had listened to that pod (in case it have not been brought up yet) we are told why they release now, it comes down to the game being stable enough to not really justify a BETA tag any more

and the problem with that is you now have a choice, stay with a half baked MWO which has been proven to be all talk and no trousers, compared to an all content for free game which has more maps and mechs with the same amount of gameplay if not more than this game. time carries on too and the competiton holds no favours to those struggling to add modes and features and game mechanic content. yes a mod is easier to build as half the work's already done, {if i knew pgi was this glacial i would've wished they'd mod something up too} then again pgi talked big and now they're paying for it and they still think they're convincing people talking big. ui2? there's some months old mock ups on the forum nothing more. CW? all talk and has been for closing in on 2 years. the idea that only premium members can set up merc corps clans is ringing true with the lobby match options being only available to premium players as per BE's podcast par 3 is merely more proof that money comes before quality.

the words they speak month by month coming at a head as lies have shoved this company's face into the dirt and saddly they still think words will clear it all up. if they don't show previews of some actuall plans, coding, ******* kindergarten thumbnails of how stompy robot comes out of base/ dropship and wins match so squiggly circle planet gains such attributes for rubbishy flag team then this game, which people brought into and have wasted a year of their time on, will be murdered by reviews and MW will be living legends or nothing for some years yet. that's why we scream, igp/pgi have brought ridicule and shame on an ip deserving of a lot more and some people have spoken more loudly than others. i've been coutious enough to isolate my anger to backwater forums but if igp/pgi wants me to join the rage on public domain sites which can kill this game then we're going in the right direction.

sorry i am in a rage after the whole bryan podcast, so many words and no sign of action. what the hell were we doing on these forums with our feedback and ideas? jerking eachother off that's what.

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 09 September 2013 - 02:22 AM.

[AlexEss]

Well if you like to play a dead game with no real development i guess you got a good pick in MW:LL. MW:O at least still have the legal ability to develop as a game.

Any way i would wait until release day before you call all gloom and doom, Bryan have confirmed that there are a stuff he can not talk about until release due to marketing concerns.

Now that being said, money always have to come first for a company... Heck why do you think the clans were introduced in the Battletech universe to begin with... To sell more TR´s, models and books.

As for the raging thing.. rage all you want... It will not really do squat beyond having you ignored by everyone who can make a change.

[627]

I don't get it. maybe i never will. How hard can it be to create a new UI and CW?

I mean, the combat module is done and working. Sure, balance fixing needed like always and more content like maps and mechs should be added monthly, but we have that.

So, we need a new UI. What's so difficult with that? We don't even expect a live mechbay, where we can run arround and climb on our mechs (yes i want that, it's the logical choice how to do it and guess what *hinthint* hangar module *hinthint*).

So we'll get a classic menu, sort our mechs buy stuff, customize. There're mockups in the command chair from when? last year? How hard can it be to make a new UI?

Ad then our beloved carrot - Community Warfare. I just talked to an old TT veteran, he painted his wall with a starmap and every friday his group of 30 BT nerds met and fight the IS. Back in the day.

So how hard can it be to draw a starmap, make some SQL DB and let the people play for planets? Yes that wouldn't be the most sophisticated CW in the world but it would be a start and you could expand that. Man, every little browser game can do this and those are f2p, too but without the (already working) combat module.

And now we launch with nothing... Man that launch party will be interesting, a big closed area with the PGI staff on one side and the raging frustrated BT fans on the other side. I hope someone has a camera on it so we can see the big boo out live on twitch.

Edited by 627, 09 September 2013 - 04:03 AM.

[Xendojo]

627, on 09 September 2013 - 04:02 AM, said:

I don't get it. maybe i never will. How hard can it be to create a new UI and CW?

I mean, the combat module is done and working. Sure, balance fixing needed like always and more content like maps and mechs should be added monthly, but we have that.

So, we need a new UI. What's so difficult with that? We don't even expect a live mechbay, where we can run arround and climb on our mechs (yes i want that, it's the logical choice how to do it and guess what *hinthint* hangar module *hinthint*).

So we'll get a classic menu, sort our mechs buy stuff, customize. There're mockups in the command chair from when? last year? How hard can it be to make a new UI?

Ad then our beloved carrot - Community Warfare. I just talked to an old TT veteran, he painted his wall with a starmap and every friday his group of 30 BT nerds met and fight the IS. Back in the day.

So how hard can it be to draw a starmap, make some SQL DB and let the people play for planets? Yes that wouldn't be the most sophisticated CW in the world but it would be a start and you could expand that. Man, every little browser game can do this and those are f2p, too but without the (already working) combat module.

And now we launch with nothing... Man that launch party will be interesting, a big closed area with the PGI staff on one side and the raging frustrated BT fans on the other side. I hope someone has a camera on it so we can see the big boo out live on twitch.

It's not hard, but PGI is working hard on integrating monetized basic features, like chat and lobbies. This is what is taking so long, this is why we don't already have these aforementioned basic features.

Because they will be tied in to the only thing keeping the remaining founders logging in once a month, Community Warfare.

FAILBOAT! All Aboard!!

[jozkhan]

New UI? Speaking from actual game dev experience - 3 months tops - small mixed team

It's not that they have been working on it for longer - as they themselves said only about 4-6 weeks ago now that it was at the -early design stage only.

They have been talking about it and promising it for much much longer, just like they do with everything.

The same with Community Warfare - how long have they claimed to be working on that? And again 4-6 weeks ago it was in early design stages.

Edited by jozkhan, 09 September 2013 - 04:47 AM.

[Lokust Davion]

[New Day]

jozkhan, on 09 September 2013 - 04:43 AM, said:

New UI? Speaking from actual game dev experience - 3 months tops - small mixed team

It's not that they have been working on it for longer - as they themselves said only about 4-6 weeks ago now that it was at the -early design stage only.

They have been talking about it and promising it for much much longer, just like they do with everything.

The same with Community Warfare - how long have they claimed to be working on that? And again 4-6 weeks ago it was in early design stages.

Check out my post. Design was supposed to be already finished and gone into production January.

[Riptor]

Quote

[color=#959595]Well if you like to play a dead game with no real development i guess you got a good pick in MW:LL. MW:O at least still have the legal ability to develop as a game.[/color]

And who do you think is responsible for MW:ll not being in development anymore?

The modders wanted to continue but where "asked" to stop.

Now i give you three tries as to what would have happened if the modders just had continued development.

Heres a hint: it has to do with lawyers suing the pants off of them.

[RG Notch]

Riptor, on 09 September 2013 - 08:46 AM, said:

And who do you think is responsible for MW:ll not being in development anymore?

The modders wanted to continue but where "asked" to stop.

Now i give you three tries as to what would have happened if the modders just had continued development.

Heres a hint: it has to do with lawyers suing the pants off of them.

Wow this story won't die even after the modders said it wasn't true. Oh well I guess humans didn't walk on the moon either. I rarely defend PGI, but please stick to the real wrong things they did rather than make up ones that have long been discredited. That mod died because no one was playing it and the modders got real jobs.

[Riptor]

RG Notch, on 09 September 2013 - 08:55 AM, said:

Wow this story won't die even after the modders said it wasn't true. Oh well I guess humans didn't walk on the moon either. I rarely defend PGI, but please stick to the real wrong things they did rather than make up ones that have long been discredited. That mod died because no one was playing it and the modders got real jobs.

Wow... how naive can one be.

There was an honest reaction from one member of the mod team that got quickly removed and replaced with a "everythings fine and dandy" post that dripped of gumdrops and icecream for PGI.

Also the statement they posted only claimed that no legal threats where made... wich in theory is right.. BECAUSE THERE WAS NO NEED FOR IT. They stopped AFTER pgi sat down with them at their table during a games convention... the discussion was even on the old MWO forums for crying out loud because it made big waves back then. PGI even explained that they asked them to stop because they "didnt want to split the community" between two rival games of the same IP

PGI themselves said that they asked them to stop..Dont know how much more obvious it can get then that.

Again.. what do you think would have happened if they had continued the work? Everyone and their grandma can figure this one out. And the outcome would have been crystal clear too... there was no snowball chance in hell for the modders to survive a legal confrontation with PGI.

So they did the only thing they could... stop development before any lawyers get involved.

They where glad that they where allowed to tie up loose ends in the last patch they brought out. According to their own forums there where many features near completion that didnt make it in anymore because they had to halt development.

Also the mod wasnt simply stopped in development, no one is even able to continue the mod. Theres more then enough interest over in the MW LL forums to pick up the modding again but the interested people get shot down because a) vital files are aparantly missing or somesuch.. havent gotten into the details of that but basicly the two head modders that also work for crytek (and got even more pressure from their bosses because pgi is licensing the cryengine... go figure) made sure no one can just pcik up and continue their work, and the other reason is because PGI would make sure to stop any further attempt at renewed development.

Heck youre not even allowed to support mw4 anymore. They feel threatened by a game that came out a decade ago...

Quote

[color=#000000]"At this GDC in casual unscripted conversation I asked him 'Why are we splitting the community at this point?' We both realized that the MWLL community was small and it really wasn't competing with MWO but still each time a feature was added to MWLL that was in MWO it felt as though we were doubling up effort to restore this great brand," Buloock wrote. "I expressed that we were not trying to shut anyone down but asked him how we might meld the two communities better and even look to possibly hire on any great talent what was in that project... For a long time the IP was in the wind and MWLL is one of those games that really kept MW on peoples minds so the project and the individuals have our utmost respect."[/color]

There found it... now does anyone still believe that pgi wouldnt have sued if the mw ll guys would have simply continued onwards?

I havent heard of any mw ll modders being hired by PGI, nor was there any need to shut it down according to russes own words.. and yet it was only after this "unscripted casual conversation" that the project was shut down. And shut down in a manner that made it almost impossible for those that where interested in continuing development to do so.

And now you tell me again that PGI did not force the decision on them.

Edited by Riptor, 09 September 2013 - 09:35 AM.

[RG Notch]

Riptor, on 09 September 2013 - 09:21 AM, said:

Wow... how naive can one be.

There was an honest reaction from one member of the mod team that got quickly removed and replaced with a "everythings fine and dandy" post that dripped of gumdrops and icecream for PGI.

Also the statement they posted only claimed that no legal threats where made... wich in theory is right.. BECAUSE THERE WAS NO NEED FOR IT. They stopped AFTER pgi sat down with them at their table during a games convention... the discussion was even on the old MWO forums for crying out loud because it made big waves back then. PGI even explained that they asked them to stop because they "didnt want to split the community" between two rival games of the same IP

PGI themselves said that they asked them to stop..Dont know how much more obvious it can get then that.

Again.. what do you think would have happened if they had continued the work? Everyone and their grandma can figure this one out. And the outcome would have been crystal clear too... there was no snowball chance in hell for the modders to survive a legal confrontation with PGI.

So they did the only thing they could... stop development before any lawyers get involved.

They where glad that they where allowed to tie up loose ends in the last patch they brought out. According to their own forums there where many features near completion that didnt make it in anymore because they had to halt development.

Also the mod wasnt simply stopped in development, no one is even able to continue the mod. Theres more then enough interest over in the MW LL forums to pick up the modding again but the interested people get shot down because a) vital files are aparantly missing or somesuch.. havent gotten into the details of that but basicly the two head modders that also work for crytek (and got even more pressure from their bosses because pgi is licensing the cryengine... go figure) made sure no one can just pcik up and continue their work, and the other reason is because PGI would make sure to stop any further attempt at renewed development.

Heck youre not even allowed to support mw4 anymore. They feel threatened by a game that came out a decade ago...

Wow, some one's naive. Do you wrap you tin foil so the shiney side is out or the dull side? I'd dispute what you say but I've dealt with the conspiracy theory folks and it never ends well. So you keep that story alive. The beauty is you don't need to point any facts, just shadowy discussions and threads that settled it long gone. I think PGI is probably behind lots of nefarious schemes if one simply listens to rumors and what they heard from some one's cousin's uncles buddy who knows the real story. You keep it real, don't ever let anything stop your rumor mongering. The less evidence the cleverer the conspiracy.
Seriously, you believe what the voices tell you, they never lie.

[Sabazial]

RG Notch, on 09 September 2013 - 08:55 AM, said:

Oh well I guess humans didn't walk on the moon either.

We didn't, it's already been proven that no human can travel through the Van Allen radiation belt even with our current technology.

[Riptor]

RG Notch, on 09 September 2013 - 09:33 AM, said:

Wow, some one's naive. Do you wrap you tin foil so the shiney side is out or the dull side? I'd dispute what you say but I've dealt with the conspiracy theory folks and it never ends well. So you keep that story alive. The beauty is you don't need to point any facts, just shadowy discussions and threads that settled it long gone. I think PGI is probably behind lots of nefarious schemes if one simply listens to rumors and what they heard from some one's cousin's uncles buddy who knows the real story. You keep it real, don't ever let anything stop your rumor mongering. The less evidence the cleverer the conspiracy.
Seriously, you believe what the voices tell you, they never lie.

Rofl.. do i have a treat for you... remember when i said that there was a honest post for a short time before it was removed and replaced with the "there where no legal threats and everything was a mistake of a couple of volunteers?" Well i found the one they took down after a bit of googling, good thing some people on the interwebz keep stuff like that saved:

Quote

[color=#000000]"To clarify how this situation came to be I'll go into a bit of detail about what's been happening behind the scenes to clear up any misconceptions. As Developers and Staff of Wandering Samurai Studios, we are, as of this point, no longer allowed to create future content based on the MechWarrior IP due to legal obligations on behalf of various rights holders. These rights holders own the Legally Binding, Non-Transferrable, Non-Commercial License Agreement with Microsoft and as of 2013 will no longer officially support the MechWarrior: Living Legends division of Wandering Samurai Studios. This is not a choice of the development team, this is a choice of the ownership and we have no control over the decision-making process. While we may not agree with the choice that must be made we respect their decision to make it, as without them, this project would have never come to fruition."[/color]

But yeah.. im wearing a tinfoil hat.. lol

Also you completly dismiss stuff that russ bullock himselfe has posted on these very forums. Makes you kinda look like a ********* you know. Just saying.

Also there was a second part to russes statement:

Quote

[color=#000000]"We discussed this topic for a little while but again it was friendly and there was no threats of shutting the mod down just more of a sense of 'Why are we doubling up efforts here?'," he continued. "After the show he contacted me expressing that they really wanted to finish what they started with [/color]MWLL[color=#000000] and had a set of features that they would like to get done and asked if that was okay with PGI. They presented a very professional plan on the remaining work they wanted to complete and stated after that it would be time to stop production on [/color]MWLL[color=#000000]. I thanked them for the plan and said that it all sounded great."[/color]

Now riddle me this... if everything was so friendly and unscripted and casual and no legal threats where made... why would the MW LL crew need to ask for allowance to finish their last patch before dropping the mod?

If PGI never "forced" them or even "suggested" to stop why not simply finish up without asking pretty please first and if its okay to even make that last patch? Sounds to me that someone was afraid they would get sued if they simply finished the patch without PGI giving the thumbs up first.

Boy you really need to learn how the game industry works when it comes down to "licensed product vs. fan made mod/game"

Edited by Riptor, 09 September 2013 - 09:50 AM.

[Aidan]

Belphegore, on 09 September 2013 - 09:36 AM, said:

We didn't, it's already been proven that no human can travel through the Van Allen radiation belt even with our current technology.

http://s946.photobuc...cepalm.gif.html

Edited by Aidan, 09 September 2013 - 10:17 AM.

[Wolfways]

"Why are we doubling up efforts?"
I'm sorry, but PGI telling WS to stop working on MWLL is like telling an artist to stop painting because your kid wants to scribble in a colouring book

But i suppose it's better to have no competition when it's obvious that they have created something you never could.