265 replies to this topic

[kiriage]

I dont know about poptarting being affected, I do know prior to the charge mechanic I could run a 50+ snap fired, pinpoint alpha from sub 300m that ran basically heat neutral and was ludicrously simple to use against any weight class of mech. The charge mechanic certainly curtailed this which, whilst disappointing for the build I was running, is probably better for the game in the long run. I still think paired guass mechs can be very effective at mid range, it just requires a bit more situational awareness.

[Col Jaime Wolf]

The Boz, on 29 September 2013 - 09:40 PM, said:

Gauss is fine now.

lol if "fine" means totally obscure and off-putting to even veteran players

[Helsbane]

SiliconLife, on 29 November 2013 - 02:55 PM, said:

The charging does not decouple the ERPCC/Gauss combo though. I can do it easily on my shadowhawk and ERPPC/Gauss sync combo all day. Just bind left mouse button to ppc and right mouse button to gauss, hold down right mouse button until charge is ready, then let go of right mouse button and hit the left mouse button at the same time. It's still extremely effective for poptarts and I have no trouble doing this on my shadowhawk. What the charge mechanic DOES hurt though, is other more balanced mechs like a dragon with a gauss rifle or any other mech that uses a gauss rifle without the PPC combo.

Exactly, and that was my point. I can run my 733C with its gauss / PPC combo just as well today as I could before the clunky charge mechanic was added, so basically the addition of the mechanic was a failure. My proposed solution would render the combination impossible through the fundamental behavior of the weapons systems themselves without resorting to heat or charging.

[Geek Verve]

xMEPHISTOx, on 29 November 2013 - 02:49 PM, said:

DPS...lol...what is this EQ2 or WoW.

No, why do you ask? Do you for some reason think that DPS isn't a valid and useful statistic in MWO? You've just discredited yourself.

[xMEPHISTOx]

Geek Verve, on 30 November 2013 - 06:41 PM, said:

No, why do you ask? Do you for some reason think that DPS isn't a valid and useful statistic in MWO? You've just discredited yourself.

Discredits nothing...
It is circumstantial, for instance a jager who has to be face up to do 'X' dps is not a true gauge of it as he will surely die faster being face up as opposed to taking advantage of terrain and the like. DPS does not account for the many factors that account for a mechs true potential for damage output. I play a shadowhawk w/minimal dps but routinely does more damage per battle than my atlas which has a considerably higher dps as the style of play and role alter the dps potential of the atlas that is focus fired for the most part. Or hey, maybe im just over thinking it all.
I suppose it (dps) would rather be a gauge for potential of what a mechs damage output could be under ideal conditions but all in all I still feel it to be circumstantial.

Truth of the matter...my original post you attempted to 'discredit' was in all reality just a troll post and does not require credit.

*edited for addition.

Edited by xMEPHISTOx, 30 November 2013 - 07:23 PM.

[Amsro]

Helsbane, on 30 November 2013 - 11:08 AM, said:

Exactly, and that was my point. I can run my 733C with its gauss / PPC combo just as well today as I could before the clunky charge mechanic was added, so basically the addition of the mechanic was a failure. My proposed solution would render the combination impossible through the fundamental behavior of the weapons systems themselves without resorting to heat or charging.

Gauss and PPC were never meant to be removed as a viable option, instead it was to detour people from using it as ONE weapon group and mashing ALPHA for the easy kill.

If you can still use this then you indeed know how to use Gauss. As well PPC/Gauss have VERY different speeds meaning if your enemy is moving the will not converge the same way. This is the reason its not a popular EZ mode combo anymore.

[Lightfoot]

Amsro, on 30 November 2013 - 07:17 PM, said:

Gauss and PPC were never meant to be removed as a viable option, instead it was to detour people from using it as ONE weapon group and mashing ALPHA for the easy kill.

If you can still use this then you indeed know how to use Gauss. As well PPC/Gauss have VERY different speeds meaning if your enemy is moving the will not converge the same way. This is the reason its not a popular EZ mode combo anymore.

Well you just replace the Gauss Rifle with the higher DPS and similar weight, space, ranged, 2xAC5+2xPPC combo and this is much better than the Gauss option. Even better options of 3xAC2's+2xPPCs or 2xUAC5+2xPPCs are also possible.

So the only thing the Gauss nerf does is remove the option of a good long range ballistic from mechs with only one Ballistic hardpoint. That's just eliminating Mech models so nothing was actually done.... except to annoy 60% of veterans and make learning the game alot more difficult for new players who could easily handle the old Gauss. Didn't PGI just spend 6 months putting 3PV into MWO to make it easier for new players to learn?

The problem with bad nerfs is they sometimes never go away, so who knows if we will ever get a working Gauss Rifle in MWO.

Edited by Lightfoot, 01 December 2013 - 05:38 AM.

[Captain Stiffy]

REPEAT OVER AND OVER SLOWLY AND TAKE DEEP BREATHS

THE GAUSS IS FOR LONG RANGE
THE GAUSS IS FOR LONG RANGE
THE GAUSS IS FOR LONG RANGE
THE GAUSS IS FOR LONG RANGE
THE GAUSS IS FOR LONG RANGE
THE GAUSS IS FOR LONG RANGE

[Aethon]

The thing is, I never used the Gauss Rifle coupled with any PPC weaponry; the different projectile speeds annoyed me, and would often hit different hitboxes on my target. I would fire one, then the other, if my mech had both.

My Dragon ran a single Gauss Rifle, as did one of my Cataphracts, one of my Centurions, and my Highlanders. With this silly charge-up mechanic, these variants all feel clunky, useless, overcomplicated, and better served with AC weaponry (since I already run a mix of lasers, SRM's, and Gauss or AC's).

Furthermore, if the Gauss Rifle must be charged to fire, why do the capacitors still explode if the weapon is hit while in an uncharged state? The whole 'making it more canon' argument would actually hold some water if the thing only exploded when it was powered-up, since the pilot can manually power-down his Gauss Rifle if it is at risk of exploding, or if he is out of Gauss slugs. As it is, however, every time the Gauss Rifle is described as being fired in canon Battletech, the pilot depresses the firing stud. Not '...he pressed the firing stud, and waited for the rifle to charge before unleashing its nickel-ferrous payload upon his target, but had to make sure he let go before the science leaked out and the rifle de-charged somehow'.

[Lightfoot]

Captain Stiffy, on 01 December 2013 - 12:23 AM, said:

REPEAT OVER AND OVER SLOWLY AND TAKE DEEP BREATHS

THE GAUSS IS FOR LONG RANGE
THE GAUSS IS FOR LONG RANGE
THE GAUSS IS FOR LONG RANGE
THE GAUSS IS FOR LONG RANGE
THE GAUSS IS FOR LONG RANGE
THE GAUSS IS FOR LONG RANGE

Then why don't all the other Ballistics that ALL do more damage (damage is DPS/payload ton) have the same desync nerf? Good grief I rip things to shreds at 600 meters with any of the paired ACs. Much faster than a Gauss Rifle ever could. The Gauss nerf was just to appease all the whiners. Any examination of the weapon stats shows the Gauss is the weakest Ballistic out there, it just makes a cool easily identified sound. What a joke this whole thing is. It would be funny if it wasn't so bad for MWO's players.



.

Edited by Lightfoot, 01 December 2013 - 05:51 AM.

[Nimura Nekogami]

Captain Stiffy, on 01 December 2013 - 12:23 AM, said:

REPEAT OVER AND OVER SLOWLY AND TAKE DEEP BREATHS

THE GAUSS IS FOR LONG RANGE
THE GAUSS IS FOR LONG RANGE
THE GAUSS IS FOR LONG RANGE
THE GAUSS IS FOR LONG RANGE
THE GAUSS IS FOR LONG RANGE
THE GAUSS IS FOR LONG RANGE

Safe your breath.

Never read anything about the Gauss was stated as: "Only for long range".
In Lore, the Gauss got some drawbacks. It could be easaly demaged and explode and its huge energy drain.
The energy drain from this weopon was extreme. The reactors produced extreme heat with costant Gauss firing if i remember correctly. (not shure if its right )

From your piont of view we could add an 150 meter min range to ER PPC`s.

[Helsbane]

Captain Stiffy, on 01 December 2013 - 12:23 AM, said:

REPEAT OVER AND OVER SLOWLY AND TAKE DEEP BREATHS

THE GAUSS IS FOR LONG RANGE
THE GAUSS IS FOR LONG RANGE
THE GAUSS IS FOR LONG RANGE
THE GAUSS IS FOR LONG RANGE
THE GAUSS IS FOR LONG RANGE
THE GAUSS IS FOR LONG RANGE

So is my Remington, but I don't have to pump that up to shoot. If It did, I'd trade it for something that wasn't hindered by a BS mechanic. Also note that my Remington works just fine at 'across the desk' ranges, just as the gauss rifle should. It's a ballistic weapon and shouldn't be saddled with a {Scrap} mechanic that makes it less useful just because it was a part of a meta that opened the floodgates to the whining sea. Use the solution I posted above, ditch the charge mechanic, and move forward.

[Amsro]

It's pretty much a 50/50 split, of people that like it or hate it.

I'm of the group that likes it, and use it, and do VERY well with it.

2000m/s is nothing to sneeze at. Any further buff will be greatly accepted by me.

[kiriage]

Nimura Nekogami, on 01 December 2013 - 07:14 AM, said:

Safe your breath.

Never read anything about the Gauss was stated as: "Only for long range".
In Lore, the Gauss got some drawbacks. It could be easaly demaged and explode and its huge energy drain.
The energy drain from this weopon was extreme. The reactors produced extreme heat with costant Gauss firing if i remember correctly. (not shure if its right )

From your piont of view we could add an 150 meter min range to ER PPC`s.

First off, the Gauss Rifle. As mentioned in AtD45, I stated that the changes to the Gauss Rifle's firing mechanic were to help make it a role specific weapon. Testing has proven that while the mechanic takes a bit to get used to, it is very effective at defining the Gauss Rifle as a long range sniper weapon. The charge time is easy to get used to, due to its short (0.75 second) delay. While it is meant to be a long range weapon, the Gauss Rifle is still usable at short range. It just requires a much higher skill shot rather than a simple point and click.
This is the first of our upcoming changes that involve diversifying some of the weapon systems into more defined role types. These won't be big game changers, just small tweaks to bring some of the weapons in line with the rest. More info will be released as we put changes into the pipeline.

Quote from Paul above: As you can see whilst he states its not alltogether solely for long range, the changes to the mechanic were designed to make it much more role specific in that area and less so up close. In fact in spite of the continued inference made that the changes were designed in main to limit ppc/gauss poptarting, the posts from the devs clearly indicate that range was the determining factor. Continued posting as to the difficulty of using the gauss up close further validates the changes as working as intended. Arguing for a solution or mechanic change to make it once again an allround weapon seems futile at best as there is a clear message the changes were designed to make it role specific. Arguing different ac/s are better than the gauss speaks more of a misunderstanding on how to use the weapon most effectively...clearly paired ac/5s are a superior all round weapon..at sniping range I fail to see how this could be substantiated. At anyrate divorcing the mechanics as being primarily in place for ppc/guass poptarting elimination (which its somewhat useful for) and understanding the primary purpose for its implementation is probably a good place to start when comming to terms with its use.

Also Nimura, this isn't directed against you specifically , I was just quoting your reference to the.. long range only part of your post, which I also understand may have been referencing TT rules..I just wanted to point out the devs have clearly outlined their concept on how this weapon should be used.

Edited by kiriage, 01 December 2013 - 11:14 PM.

[Lightfoot]

Well my main gripe is you can't aim within the allotted time with a Joystick so it's unusable to any human player using a Joystick. Takes about 3-4 seconds to aim the reticles with a Joystick. Never have figured out why the two reticles take so long to syncronize with a Joystick over a Mouse. In fact, unless you move the reticles very fast they should remain synched since the arm reticle is faster than the torso, it would always keep up, not lag.

Anyway, no reason I can see not to ease up on the time to aim the Gauss before it discharges. Truth is the Gauss nerf pushed everyone into using the more damaging light ACs. They work just as well with PPCs.

Once we go Merc Unit vs Merc, Faction, or Clan Unit I don't think you will see anyone using the Gauss Rifle. It doesn't do any extra damage for all the hassle and it has such a narrow window of use. Even if they restored it to it's old version I don't think I would go back to it.

[thesleepyslam]

are we talking dual gauss, or single gauss is bad? I currently have good/bad rounds running dual gauss on K2 with no supplementary weapons.

Edited by thesleepyslam, 01 December 2013 - 04:27 PM.

[Nimura Nekogami]

kiriage, on 01 December 2013 - 02:49 PM, said:

[/i]
First off, the Gauss Rifle. As mentioned in AtD45, I stated that the changes to the Gauss Rifle's firing mechanic were to help make it a role specific weapon. Testing has proven that while the mechanic takes a bit to get used to, it is very effective at defining the Gauss Rifle as a long range sniper weapon. The charge time is easy to get used to, due to its short (0.75 second) delay. While it is meant to be a long range weapon, the Gauss Rifle is still usable at short range. It just requires a much higher skill shot rather than a simple point and click.
This is the first of our upcoming changes that involve diversifying some of the weapon systems into more defined role types. These won't be big game changers, just small tweaks to bring some of the weapons in line with the rest. More info will be released as we put changes into the pipeline.

Quote from Paul above: As you can see whilst he states its not alltogether solely for long range, the changes to the mechanic were designed to make it much more role specific in that area and less so up close. In fact in spite of the continued inference made that the changes were designed in main to limit ppc/gauss poptarting, the posts from the devs clearly indicate that range was the determining factor. Continued posting as to the difficulty of using the gauss up close further validates the changes as working as intended. Arguing for a solution or mechanic change to make it once again an allround weapon seems futile at best as there is a clear message the changes were designed to make it role specific. Arguing different ac/s are better than the gauss speaks more of a misunderstanding on how to use the weapon most effectively...clearly paired ac/5s are a superior all round weapon..at sniping range I fail to see how this could be substantiated. At anyrate divorcing the mechanics as being primarily in place for ppc/guass poptarting elimination (which its somewhat useful for) and understanding the primary purpose for its implementation is probably a good place to start when comming to terms with its use.

Also Nimura, this isn't directed against you specifically , I was just quoting your reference to the.. long range only part of your post, which I also understand may have been referencing TT rules..I just wanted to point out the devs have clearly outlined their concept on how this weapon should be used.

I dont take other views personal.

My problem with " Gauss is long range" is, that PGI said it is. The explanation sounds for me like excuses for the new mechanic. Im a Fan of Battletech and its Lore ......not from PGI.
The TT reference with this mechanic is strange. Lesser hit chance in close combat in TT. But using a charge for hit simulation sound wrong. Would you llike charges on all weapons? This is what should be done if its implemented for this reason.

I will stay at my piont. I never read anything about the Gauss called "only for long range".

This is the only Mech Warrior game that use such an charge for the Gauss. The first Mechwarrior Games could be called "simulators" and even those didnt used something like this. The Gaus Rifle just got a higher range. And you already pay with some drawbacks. PGI decided to add this. Not Battletech. That is my problem with this claim.
(If some of you guys want sniper weapons you shouldnt play something Battletech related. )
In Battletech are short-range, mid-range, long-range and artillery-weapons.

Some defending PGI for a non Battletech related decission.
Like i wrote: In this logic ER weapons also need some sort of charge.....they got "extreme range".

I could also claim: " Ghost Heat made heat-menagement and loadout more "role-specific".

[Sir Ratburger]

I took down TWO lights circling me with my Cataphract 4X which has 2x Gauss rifles mounted on it. Its not that hard to aim with the charge up time.

For me I don't mind if there is a charge up time or if they remove it... I'm happy either way.

[VikingN1nja]

AS I STATED BEFORE I BOUGHT HEAVY METAL WITH A GAUSS TO BRAWL AND NOW I CANT DERP DER DERP!

[Warrior UK]

How to solve this Gauss charge crying, give us the Light Gauss at thirteen tons with NO charge, two slots less the big boy, distance twelve hundread meters with ten shots per ton.