265 replies to this topic

[Dimento Graven]

Amsro, on 30 November 2013 - 07:17 PM, said:

Gauss and PPC were never meant to be removed as a viable option, instead it was to detour people from using it as ONE weapon group and mashing ALPHA for the easy kill.

If you can still use this then you indeed know how to use Gauss. As well PPC/Gauss have VERY different speeds meaning if your enemy is moving the will not converge the same way. This is the reason its not a popular EZ mode combo anymore.

I don't believe that. Nothing was done to eliminate dual AC/20 insta-kills, nothing was done to prevent the possibility of quad-PPC (or more) insta-kills.

Sure, ghost heat is there, but ANY {Dezgra} can still use dual AC/20's, or quad-PPC builds. But for gauss, now it's a weapon not really usable by noobs without suffering a significant learning curve.

All other high alpha, pin point damage combos are still there, still unnerfed, ONLY the gauss has had to suffer this ignominy.

[Amsro]

Dimento Graven, on 02 December 2013 - 07:05 AM, said:

I don't believe that. Nothing was done to eliminate dual AC/20 insta-kills, nothing was done to prevent the possibility of quad-PPC (or more) insta-kills.

Question; what was done to stop Dual AC/20, SplatCat and 3+ Energy Builds?

Quote

Sure, ghost heat is there, but ANY {Dezgra} can still use dual AC/20's, or quad-PPC builds. But for gauss, now it's a weapon not really usable by noobs without suffering a significant learning curve.

Answer; Ghost Heat, but this is completely worked around by waiting half a second! Avoiding the true culprit while nerfing countless builds needlessly.

Quote

All other high alpha, pin point damage combos are still there, still unnerfed, ONLY the gauss has had to suffer this ignominy.

High Pinpoint Alpha

6xSRM6 (good luck!)
6xLargeLaser (good luck!)
6xPPC (HA!)
6xERPPC (meltdown!) Seen a Battlemaster with 7. LOL

The list can go on forever, there are many combos that have been nerfed to the ground.

I mean if 40 is a "high" pin point alpha then 8 medium laser hunchback is OP too!

Pretty sure the problem to this game lies in either Faulty Heat System and/or Convergence. But thats another QQ thread!

omegagun, on 02 December 2013 - 04:26 AM, said:

AS I STATED BEFORE I BOUGHT HEAVY METAL WITH A GAUSS TO BRAWL AND NOW I CANT DERP DER DERP!

As I stated before I still Derp der Derp in my Heavy Metal with Gauss and 3xGhost Heat Lasers.

No need to yell!

AND I DO VERY WELL IN THAT MECH! still!

Edited by Amsro, 02 December 2013 - 07:54 AM.

[SuriViruS]

o0cipher0o, on 29 November 2013 - 02:33 AM, said:

After reading all the gauss nerf QQ threads that are popping out recently, i've rebuilded a dual gauss jager, and played it for a bit.

[...]Last, but not least, the gauss should explode if hit only while it's charged.

That's the most reasonable point atm. I wish I could pinpoint that somehow.

Reconius, on 29 November 2013 - 02:45 PM, said:

What ruins Gauss for me isn't the charge itself but the fact that for whatever reason it won't charge all the way 50% of the time.

Maybe I need a new mouse.

Try to allign the weapongroup to a key on the keyboad, and try again.

Captain Stiffy, on 28 November 2013 - 08:51 PM, said:

I must be the ONLY person that likes the change because I am the only one who realized that the gauss rifle is

NOT A CLOSE RANGE WEAPON PERIOD.

With the current mechanic.

Captain Stiffy, on 01 December 2013 - 12:23 AM, said:

REPEAT OVER AND OVER SLOWLY AND TAKE DEEP BREATHS

THE GAUSS IS FOR LONG RANGE
[...]

LONG RANGE is in the eye of the beholder.
For the GR, MWO stats say it's 680m.
So use GR up to 680m or beyond 680m up to max range?

[D1G17AL]

All I am seeing in this thread is people who are unwilling to change their sense of timing. It's called learning a weapon. Seriously, it's a long range weapon with or without the charge. The charge up really does a good job of simulating the to-hit modifier that Guass rifles have in table top. It is not meant to be a brawling weapon even without the charge up time. I don't understand what you ******* are complaining about, just check your timing better and you can still pair the gauss with your builds, you just have to be smarter with your trigger finger. Come on.

[Dimento Graven]

D1G17AL, on 18 December 2013 - 01:19 PM, said:

All I am seeing in this thread is people who are unwilling to change their sense of timing. It's called learning a weapon. Seriously, it's a long range weapon with or without the charge. The charge up really does a good job of simulating the to-hit modifier that Guass rifles have in table top. It is not meant to be a brawling weapon even without the charge up time. I don't understand what you ******* are complaining about, just check your timing better and you can still pair the gauss with your builds, you just have to be smarter with your trigger finger. Come on.

Written like someone who only has incidental experience with the gauss in MWO, and even less experience with TT rule sets. There was no 'additional' to-hit modifier for the gauss, it had the same to-hit modifiers as any other weapon.

The only difference between MWO and TT modifiers, and it is a minor one compared to the 'charge up' delay and 'charge up' decay, is the 60 meter (2 hex) minimum range in TT. For MWO minimum ranges only exist for PPC's and LRMs.

So, if you're implying that the gauss, because it had a minimum range in TT means it wasn't a brawling weapon, then that must mean the Ultra AC2/5, the AC2/5, nor the PPC are supposed to be brawling weapons.

If that's the case, where's their 'charge up' times?

Edited by Dimento Graven, 18 December 2013 - 02:21 PM.

[Lightfoot]

I don't think anyone at PGI has tested the Gauss Rifle desync with a Joystick even though Razor is supposedly building a Joystick specialized to MWO.

The current Gauss Rifle is impossible to use with a Joystick and we joystick players should not be discriminated against in this way. The Joystick is the traditional way to play MechWarrior and many players still do. At least extend the time to shoot to 5 seconds.

In the end though I do not understand why MWO had to use a first person shooter sniper rifle mechanic on the gauss when all that was ever needed in past MechWarrior games was to give the Gauss Rifle a 20 percent longer recharge than the AC20 class of weapons.

[Dimento Graven]

Lightfoot, on 18 December 2013 - 08:17 PM, said:

I don't think anyone at PGI has tested the Gauss Rifle desync with a Joystick even though Razor is supposedly building a Joystick specialized to MWO.

The current Gauss Rifle is impossible to use with a Joystick and we joystick players should not be discriminated against in this way. The Joystick is the traditional way to play MechWarrior and many players still do. At least extend the time to shoot to 5 seconds.

In the end though I do not understand why MWO had to use a first person shooter sniper rifle mechanic on the gauss when all that was ever needed in past MechWarrior games was to give the Gauss Rifle a 20 percent longer recharge than the AC20 class of weapons.

Yeah I imagine that the development staff at Razor is pretty pissed with PGI about that right now. I know I just love it when design specs have to dramatically change in the middle/near the end of implementation.

This is the sort of thing that when it happens between two companies typically results in law suits.

[AwfulCob]

Yet another change suggestion for the gauss rifle to remove the charging mechanic and not wind up back in the days of Xppc + Gauss to a single location. Make it so that the GR can't be fired within .5 seconds of another weapon firing, and another weapon can't be fired within .5 seconds of the GR firing. It can have some random lore like the power draw is so large it takes most of the engine output to fire.

If grouped with other weapons firing the gauss rifle won't fire with the group, it will only fire if the last weapon in the group fired > .5 seconds ago.

So for example an LRM 10 firing from a 5 tube launcher the GR can only fire .5 seconds after the last 5 missiles have left the tube. .5 seconds after firing the GR you can again fire other weapons in the same group or other groups.

Makes it a viable sniper weapon for medium mechs, Boating them isn't so much of a problem because they can't group fire, and if ppl are crazy and want to get into a brawl with them they can still be more useful then they are right now.

Forgive me if this was already suggested. But there was this wooden mallet and this dead horse, and I just had to leap into action. What else am I going to do until the Wolverine comes out for C-bills.

[990Dreams]

Logic time.

So the Gauss explodes and causes catastrophic damage when it does. The Gauss relies on a capacitor to fire it's shot. A capacitor has to be charged. Now, listen carefully about how to enhance the Gauss without making it OP:

• Toggle option for auto-charging: The Gauss rifle can auto charge, manually charge (and de-charge), and manually charge/lock/unlock the charge.
  
• Exploding capacitor: If the capacitor is charged, then it should explode when destroyed. Otherwise the weapon has no reason to blow up.

[Xenoise]

I know this thread is old but i need to write my opinion: if you want to leave the charging time

a) get rid of that "if you charge for more then x seconds you gonna need to recharge"
or
delete that weapon from that game, its nonsense.

[Lightfoot]

The charge-time mechanic was only designed for Mouse-users. On a mouse it's a simple drag-click move. Silly as this is in the world of Simulation and Battlemechs, you could learn to do it. However, it doesn't work with a joystick which can't drag-click a cursor around the screen. Please get rid of it or make it more user-friendly. The challenge should be aiming and piloting the Mech, not twitching the mouse just right. Think 'game immersion'.

[Murphy7]

I support the delay to a capacitor charge, and let the charge hold indefinitely or at least significantly longer than it does now.

I don't care if you apply he feedback damage on Gauss hit to CT internals to balance it, just improve the functionality.

[Osric Lancaster]

More or less my thoughts exactly. If the the Gauss is going to function as a charge-to-fire, capacitor based weapon, then it's charging mechanic should work like a PPC capacitor in TT. That is; the weapon continues to generate heat/unit time for as long as the weapon is kept charged. So the balance for a Gauss is that a person with skill at quickly placing or timing shots incurs less of a heat penalty.

From : http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Gauss_Rifle
" However, if the weapon itself is struck by enemy fire, the capacitors that power the electromagnets will release their stored energy, with an effect similar to an ammo explosion. (In game terms, a critical hit on a Gauss Rifle is equivalent to a 20-point ammo explosion.) "

So make it such that the Gauss will explode only when charged, then increase the damage incurred by a Gauss explosion to 40 or so. Oh, and bloody fix convergence so weapon focus it isn't instant, and weapons converge on 'mechs you have targeted before trying to focus on what ever is under the reticule. Add some indicators for individual weapon convergence. Also, why are small lasers still at two heat. WHY.

Edited by Osric Lancaster, 03 January 2014 - 05:25 PM.

[Geek Verve]

Lightfoot, on 31 December 2013 - 09:08 PM, said:

The charge-time mechanic was only designed for Mouse-users. On a mouse it's a simple drag-click move. Silly as this is in the world of Simulation and Battlemechs, you could learn to do it. However, it doesn't work with a joystick which can't drag-click a cursor around the screen. Please get rid of it or make it more user-friendly. The challenge should be aiming and piloting the Mech, not twitching the mouse just right. Think 'game immersion'.

I don't use a joystick, so I'm going to have to ask what is probably a dumb question: don't the buttons on joysticks "stay down" if you keep them pressed? Wouldn't holding the joystick button behave the same way that holding a mouse button does with regard to charging the gauss rifle?

[Dimento Graven]

DavidHurricane, on 28 December 2013 - 06:37 PM, said:

Logic time.

So the Gauss explodes and causes catastrophic damage when it does. The Gauss relies on a capacitor to fire it's shot. A capacitor has to be charged. Now, listen carefully about how to enhance the Gauss without making it OP:

• Toggle option for auto-charging: The Gauss rifle can auto charge, manually charge (and de-charge), and manually charge/lock/unlock the charge.
  
• Exploding capacitor: If the capacitor is charged, then it should explode when destroyed. Otherwise the weapon has no reason to blow up.

If the weapon has no ammo, there should never be a charge to 'blow up' either.

Xenoise, on 31 December 2013 - 05:00 PM, said:

I know this thread is old but i need to write my opinion: if you want to leave the charging time

a) get rid of that "if you charge for more then x seconds you gonna need to recharge"
or
delete that weapon from that game, its nonsense.

Frustration from the ******** .25 second charge duration is definitely major. I tried using my gauss weapons while lagging, I don't see how anyone with a lag of around 200 or greater can possibly use the damn things.

It's absolute BS that the .75 second charge time didn't also come with .75 second reduction in reload time.

Absolutely it's time for a change to the weapon that actually makes sense, but as no one from PGI that I've ever observed, dropped with, or watched in any twitch event has EVER used a gauss, that I have ever seen (if they have it's definitely a rare event), I'm thinking they don't give a **** because they don't use the weapon due to a lack of skill. They choose to focus on the kudos from the other slacktards who lack the skill necessary to utilize the weapon properly and ignore the vast majority as they are 'on an island'...

Osric Lancaster, on 02 January 2014 - 02:25 PM, said:

...
So make it such that the Gauss will explode only when charged, then increase the damage incurred by a Gauss explosion to 40 or so. Oh, and bloody fix convergence so weapon focus it isn't instant, and weapons converge on 'mechs you have targeted before trying to focus on what ever is under the reticule. Add some indicators for individual weapon convergence. Also, why are small lasers still at two heat. WHY.

I agree with most everything else, except the thoughts on increasing the damage. 20 points is extremely devastating in an internal explosion. Most 'mechs will be an gnat's *** hair away from death, if not dead when it explodes, so adding more damage just ensure that instead of 98% chance of death from gauss explosion, you get 100% chance.

It's really not necessary.

Geek Verve, on 03 January 2014 - 04:37 PM, said:

I don't use a joystick, so I'm going to have to ask what is probably a dumb question: don't the buttons on joysticks "stay down" if you keep them pressed? Wouldn't holding the joystick button behave the same way that holding a mouse button does with regard to charging the gauss rifle?

I don't use a joy stick either, but if I understand how a majority of people use them is, they steer with the main stick, and aim with a thumb button. Due to the typical 'resolution' or PPI of the thumb button, the ability for 'quick' long distanced pinpoint aiming is extremely compromised. In other words, yes you can use it to aim, but the 'throw' of the thumb button doesn't allow for quickly moving from one side of the screen to the other, and the PPI resolution of the movement typically doesn't allow you to adjust in single pixel increments like a gaming mouse does.

What this results in is it takes longer to aim when using a joy stick, so if your window to fire a weapon is .25 seconds, and you're equipment isn't able to adjust in that time frame, you're screwed.

[990Dreams]

Dimento Graven, on 03 January 2014 - 11:48 PM, said:

If the weapon has no ammo, there should never be a charge to 'blow up' either.

If you are referring to the Gauss, the Gauss ammo isn't explosive. If you are referring to any other weapon, then yes, only the loaded weapon/weapon ammo should explode.

[Allen Ward]

Amsro, on 02 December 2013 - 07:57 AM, said:

I mean if 40 is a "high" pin point alpha then 8 medium laser hunchback is OP too!

Lasers ain't pinpoint.
Gauss remains broken and PGI ignores this.

Edited by Allen Ward, 04 January 2014 - 07:46 AM.

[Allen Ward]

Lightfoot, on 18 December 2013 - 08:17 PM, said:

I don't think anyone at PGI has tested the Gauss Rifle desync with a Joystick even though Razor is supposedly building a Joystick specialized to MWO.

The current Gauss Rifle is impossible to use with a Joystick and we joystick players should not be discriminated against in this way. The Joystick is the traditional way to play MechWarrior and many players still do. At least extend the time to shoot to 5 seconds.

In the end though I do not understand why MWO had to use a first person shooter sniper rifle mechanic on the gauss when all that was ever needed in past MechWarrior games was to give the Gauss Rifle a 20 percent longer recharge than the AC20 class of weapons.

I don't think anyone at PGI tested the new Gauss with keyboard/mouse either. Or they played a few team matches where luckily the gauss performed and decided it to be ok. They surely not analyzed data of several hundred or thousand players using Gauss and compared it to other weapons.

[Amsro]

Allen Ward, on 04 January 2014 - 07:43 AM, said:

Lasers ain't pinpoint.
Gauss remains broken and PGI ignores this.

When I use lasers they are pinpoint (all damage on one location). Large Laser knife work, Large Pulse Laser surgery.

When I use Gauss people cry and call me cheezy, call me "aimbotter" even. (2000m/s is far from broken, near OP even)

Edit; I use a Joystick and Mouse combo, once you aim using the mouse and move your mech using the Joystick you will wonder why you've been gimping yourself with ANY other setup.

Edited by Amsro, 04 January 2014 - 07:55 AM.

[Lightfoot]

No thanks. I do okay with just a joystick and I like the immersion into the game. I don't use a Gauss Rifle anymore because I can't do the drag-click-release mechanic with a Joystick. You may run your throttle and turn axis with a joystick, but you still have a mouse to aim the Gauss with.

I don't need the Gauss Rifle anyway. I know PGI can't accept that the Gauss Rifle has the lowest DPS/ payload ton required, but it is and is the worst ballistic in MWO except for it's range and redeeming damage spike. That counts for something, but it's not the Wonder Warthog weapon of MechWarrior that many like to believe it is.

I am doing an experiment right now where I only use weapons on my mech that PGI has not buried in heat nerfs or scuttled like the Gauss and I have won 26 out of the last 36 games and had a 12 game win streak and I am on a 5 game win streak now. It's not rocket science or anything, but, no Gauss required.

I have always felt the Gauss was situational anyway and if it has a 25-30% longer recharge than the AC20 class it's only suited for long range maps, if you know what map you are headed too, that is.