211 replies to this topic

[CPT Orangetayo]

PPCS are all about quick damage in one volley - perfect for a striker. This is what they should have been from the get go, and this latest fix makes their role more distinct.

PPCS are not about sustained damage per second over time, this is why we have lasers - for brawlers.

Two different weapons, two different play styles. Both very effective if used how they're intended.

[Modo44]

The PPC/ERPPC is not the weapon for all situations anymore. That does not make it terrible, but it does require some strategy in deploying it. It snipes quite nicely, and it has a good synergy with LLs for big alphastrikes without heat scaling.

[TOGSolid]

Modo44, on 10 September 2013 - 10:37 AM, said:

The PPC/ERPPC is not the weapon for all situations anymore. That does not make it terrible, but it does require some strategy in deploying it. It snipes quite nicely, and it has a good synergy with LLs for big alphastrikes without heat scaling.

That said, I did load up an Orion with two PPCs, an ER PPC, and 22 Double Heatsinks and was able to keep up some serious sustained firepower without overheating. They are definitely a weapon you can go in hard as a ************ with, you just have to, yanno, actually pay attention to what the hell you're doing with em now and can't just alpha strike them all day long.

PPCs have a distinct role again and are very solid weapons. People are just mad they can't run them on every build ever and use them as a crutch now.

Edited by TOGSolid, 10 September 2013 - 10:53 AM.

[TheFlyingScotsman]

They are totally playable, they never stopped being playable. My very effective Heavy Metal build hasn't changed since the thing came out. 1Gauss, 1ERPPC, 1TAG and the rest SSRMs.

An ERPPC requires a large volume of dedicated sinks to begin with, a balance effect to offset it not having ammo. Having two of them is the equivalent of mounting two heavy autocannons with ammo. You really only need one, just learn to live longer and you will have more opportunities to deal damage, isntead of relying on a suicidal, overheating build meant to spam about until it dies when something charges it.

1 PPC is all that is needed, offset with low heat secondary weapons and/or an autocannon and go to town.

[Bloody Moon]

Unplayable? You gotta be kidding.
Seen this thread and played a single game (i haven't played this game in the last couple of weeks).

3PPC CTF-3D, 18DHS, 340xl engine




86.4 KM/H is enough to keep almost everything well out of the deadzone. The damage is not that high, still the highest in the battle, but precision counts a lot. 1 of the kills was a headshot, 3 were side torsos as i knew they had XL from their loadout and one was a circling light.

The PPCs seem to be working just fine.

[AntiCitizenJuan]

WHOA GUYS PPCS AREN'T GOOD ANYMORE NO REASON TO EVER USE PPCS EVER AGAIN

http://imgur.com/a/SFnwA

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...36f84c8836f72dd

TL;DR: You're mad, you're bad

PPCs are fine.

[PropagandaWar]

The great thing about games like this is: I don't have to choose between Machine Gun A or Machine Gun B. Oh wait there's a Shotgun, pistol, Assault Rifle, Rocket launcher in those games too. All of which I shoot one at a time. Nope now I have a FPS again where I can usually throw on bunch of weapons that I can fire at once or usually the same time. I can even bring one for any situation if it fits the situation. Why does this contribute to this post? Simple. We can pick and choose and mix our choices. If you don't like the PPC go to another weapon.They are removing the golden gun and making the game viable with other weapons systems.

Example: LBX's are a great weapon now. Wait what?! But they weigh more than PPC cause Spread Damage take some heat and require ammo with more slots. Its about balancing this game. PPC's still rock. Your just not gonna be firing 1 ppc with 5 lasers anymore with out over heating. That guass takes a bit more finesse.

[Doomstryke]

Khobai, on 10 September 2013 - 10:11 AM, said:

So then you think PPCs are viable? Because from my perspective Large Lasers are outright better. The difference between 7 and 10 heat means you can boat lasers but not ppcs. So theres no reason to use ppcs.

MWO is still about boating, nothing has changed that, and until something does change that the best loadouts are going to be ones that boat weapons. Right now its UAC/5s and LLs that are the best two options for ballistic and energy respectively.

Of course they are. So u can't boat 4 whopped de do. I'll take 2 ppc's over 4 large lasers any day. Boating is good and all but the king is pin point instant damage. Why do you think people bitched about 35 point alpha of ppc and gauss when you could boat srms and medium lasers on a stalker or the 6 5 4 ppc stalkers. One of my stalkers had a 78 point alpha pre srms nerfs. How many times did you hear people complain about it? Same reason lasers don't equal pin point damage and that's why no one is ever really complaining about it. a spider sporting 1 ppc will do hell of a lot more acurage damage then one sporting a large laser. Remember people bitching about 2 ppcs on a jenner, no one complained about 2 large lasers. same way no one cares about the jenner k or d with its 4 medium lasers. lasers VS balistics / PPC will never compare unless your aim is terrible which is the only time lasers are better. If you have good aim lasers is the last thing you ever want to put on your mech

I agree with your ultra comment though for sure since its right there with what I said about instant damage on one spot.

[Zultor]

ValdnadHartagga, on 10 September 2013 - 05:30 AM, said:

I dunno man, honest to Blake I saw a premade AWS last night packing five ERPPCs. It's all about managing the battle, not blasting away at every opportunity.

This sounds like a waste to me. The only reason to have 5 of any single weapon system is because you want to fire the 5th before the first has come off of cooldown whether via alpha or delayed firing. The alpha would kill you so that is out. With the heat penalty, etc I would be surprised if this mech ever has all 5 of the PPC's on cooldown at the same time.

With this said I am perfectly fine with the way the system is now. I don't like seeing 5 PPC mechs or any boating mechs. Especially in Assaults. For mediums I know mechs specialize but when you have that much tonnage to work with you raelly shouldn't be a one trick pony.

[Angel of Annihilation]

deanon, on 10 September 2013 - 05:25 AM, said:

The heat cost is to high, never put out enough damage for them to be worth it, Large Lasers are pretty much allways better since they allow you to fire more.

Tried them with my highlander and 15 double heatsinks..

Your 100% correct. Been saying this since.....CLOSED BETA when they balanced them the first go around. Now we are back full circle. Ironic it takes like a full year just to balance PPCs and ER PPCs back to "broken" just like it was in the begining. PGI has made real progress let me tell you.

[Roland]

PropagandaWar, on 10 September 2013 - 11:18 AM, said:

Example: LBX's are a great weapon now.

No, they are not even close to great.
They are still terribad weapons which are always the wrong choice.

[Livewyr]

TheFlyingScotsman, on 10 September 2013 - 10:56 AM, said:

They are totally playable, they never stopped being playable. My very effective Heavy Metal build hasn't changed since the thing came out. 1Gauss, 1ERPPC, 1TAG and the rest SSRMs.

An ERPPC requires a large volume of dedicated sinks to begin with, a balance effect to offset it not having ammo. Having two of them is the equivalent of mounting two heavy autocannons with ammo. You really only need one, just learn to live longer and you will have more opportunities to deal damage, isntead of relying on a suicidal, overheating build meant to spam about until it dies when something charges it.

1 PPC is all that is needed, offset with low heat secondary weapons and/or an autocannon and go to town.

That would require imagination.

get the duck out.

[PropagandaWar]

Roland, on 10 September 2013 - 11:37 AM, said:

No, they are not even close to great.
They are still terribad weapons which are always the wrong choice.

Um ok your personal preference. I personally like the LBX combined with a SRM combo and get great damage/kills with it. If you want to fire it at 500 meters away thats your call. You go with your whatever the highest lacks imagination build you have. It's your life after all. I'll keep on kicking butt in my mediocre builds.

Edited by PropagandaWar, 10 September 2013 - 11:51 AM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

EGH, on 10 September 2013 - 05:34 AM, said:

finally there is a reason to use other weapons

That is eactly what I said when they reduced the heat on the PPC and ER PPC the first time around....why? Because the only useful weapon was the LL and that is the case now.

I am back to having NO REASON to use a PPC or ER PPC over a LL or ER LL. The heat difference is so great even a completely skillless noob should have no problem holding a beam pulse long enough to out damage the PPC or ER PPC over a 20-30 second period of exchanging fire. I mean seriously how does anyone think managing 40 damage over a 30 second time frame is good, because when you factor in how long you have to pause fire to cool down after firng a pair of PPCs, that is about all the damage your going to manage to do.

A pair of ER LL or especially a pair of LL can fire and fire and fire and fire again, and again, and again and maybe even again and maybe again before reaching the heat levels generated by only a couple PPC/ER PPC shots. Also before you say it can't, remember you can add two more DHS per LL than you can with a PPC. On a pair that would be the difference between 14 and 18 DHS or 30% greater heat dissapation on a weapon that is at least 20% cooler to begin with.

The straight truth is that PPCs and ER PPCs can't even remotely compete against LL and ER LL now, unless you are so seriously unskilled that you really can't keep the aiming cursor on an enemy mech when using a laser.

[Tyman4]

I don't like them being that hot. PPC is okay at nine or 10 heat and ERPPC at 12 or 13 sounds just fine to me. I only run a single ER on my cent. It is reaally hot now. Y punish a single ERPPC build with 15 heat (33% more than the normal PPC for the same damage), its not a crazy alpha build. This is the second increase to heat on PPCs isn't it?

[Khobai]

Quote

The straight truth is that PPCs and ER PPCs can't even remotely compete against LL and ER LL now

Completely agree. Its a cased of mixed loadouts not working as well as boated loadouts. And the PPC by its very nature requires you to mix your loadout. And the reality is 5 or even 6 large lasers will always be better than any mixed loadout involving PPCs.

[Raso]

Equip a few PPCs and use them at range to soften up your target then finish them off up close with medium lasers, ACs and SRMs if they get too close while using your PPC VERY sparingly.

You wouldn't use your medium laser at some one who was 460m away from you, why would you use your PPCs when they are inside the effective range of your other weapons...... that's assuming you even know how to design a mech that isn't all PPCs and DHSs......

[Trauglodyte]

Khobai, on 10 September 2013 - 12:48 PM, said:

Completely agree. Its a cased of mixed loadouts not working as well as boated loadouts. And the PPC by its very nature requires you to mix your loadout. And the reality is 5 or even 6 large lasers will always be better than any mixed loadout involving PPCs.

Yes and no, Khobai. If you want to compare, you're pretty much looking at pitting 3 PPCs (21 tons and 9 crits) vs. 4 Lrg Lasers (20 tons and 8 crits). The benefits of the PPC are less hard points used, pin point damage, and range. The Lrg Laser group, on the other hand, is generally more heat efficient due to less heat build up on a longer cool down, on top of being slightly more weight/crit friendly and not being limited by a minimum range. The downside to the Lrg Lasers is, of course, the implication of torso twisting damage to spread it around. Essentially, if you're boating (ie, you're a Stalker driver cheesing the game), you're better off with the Lrg Lasers.

[Raidyr]

Haven't had a chance to use regular PPC's yet but ERPPC's feel like they generate slightly too much heat.

[Doomstryke]

Viktor Drake, on 10 September 2013 - 11:49 AM, said:

That is eactly what I said when they reduced the heat on the PPC and ER PPC the first time around....why? Because the only useful weapon was the LL and that is the case now.

I am back to having NO REASON to use a PPC or ER PPC over a LL or ER LL. The heat difference is so great even a completely skillless noob should have no problem holding a beam pulse long enough to out damage the PPC or ER PPC over a 20-30 second period of exchanging fire. I mean seriously how does anyone think managing 40 damage over a 30 second time frame is good, because when you factor in how long you have to pause fire to cool down after firng a pair of PPCs, that is about all the damage your going to manage to do.

A pair of ER LL or especially a pair of LL can fire and fire and fire and fire again, and again, and again and maybe even again and maybe again before reaching the heat levels generated by only a couple PPC/ER PPC shots. Also before you say it can't, remember you can add two more DHS per LL than you can with a PPC. On a pair that would be the difference between 14 and 18 DHS or 30% greater heat dissapation on a weapon that is at least 20% cooler to begin with.

The straight truth is that PPCs and ER PPCs can't even remotely compete against LL and ER LL now, unless you are so seriously unskilled that you really can't keep the aiming cursor on an enemy mech when using a laser.

If your looking for straight up damage sure I can bite, and yah erppc is to hot. regular PPC is still way better then any version of the large laser.

keep firing your lasers all you want. while one has to stay looking at a mech the entire time the other can twist, fire, twist and never have to face the target. also again yah you can hold over a mech but can you actually hold over the same panel the entire time? chase down a spider with its gibble hit boxes and fire your lasers all you want you will take forever. compare that to a pair of ppc's and a couple volleys will have at least destroyed the component if not the mech. Doing 100 damage on a mech spread all over torsos arms and legs is utter {Scrap} compared to even 60 damage to a single panel with the added benifit of note risking your vitial spots.

I call complete BS on anyone that says they can laser down a fast medium (since people will say lights are op) and never hit anything but the one panel they want without spreading damage anywhere else.

PPC or any other balistic NO problem at all

ppc > any and all lasers for someone who can aim and shoot (erppc bit to hot and yah a pair of those is still fun but way more challenging)

and the only time you can't keep someone 90 m away is when a light is humping your legs which most mechs do run something other then just a pair of ppc. 1 err ppc and a regular is still completely manageable to deal with that light